Chan 29th best coach?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

That's not my job. If I suggest people I would be arm chair QB and if you are so smart then why aren't you on the Bills staff, why aren't you the GM, how come you can't throw the ball accurately either?

 

All I know is Fitz is decent backup, that is it and it is pretty easy to see you can't win with him. He has proven it.

Excuses.

 

Most everyone here purports to be a knowledgeable football fan. EVERYONE is an armchair quarterback.

 

What's so hard about answering the question?

 

As for what Johnny Hammersticks wrote about Peyton Manning, I agree totally.

 

I really don't see how some "experts" have Brady or in some cases, Brees or Rodgers rated ahead of Manning. To me, Manning has done more with less that any of those guys. Early in his career he had Harrison and when Harrison started fading, he had Wayne. He's also had Dallas Clark but the defense has always been marginal with the exception of a good pass rush and the running game has always been mediocre. Yet Manning always gets that team wins at the same time, putting up huge passing numbers.

 

Another hallmark of Manning's career is that he's always been able to form effective chemistry with first-year rookies and free agents.

 

I agree with Hammersticks that Manning is not just a "good" quarterback but rather, he is the kind of quarterback that comes around once every ten years… the kind of quarterback that 31 teams wish that they had.

 

It's hard enough finding a Pro Bowl quality quarterback (there's very few of them too) but to find an all-time great like Manning just doesn't happen very often.

 

Only ignorant people think that great quarterbacks grow on trees.

Edited June 6, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Jauronimo]

That's not my job. If I suggest people I would be arm chair QB and if you are so smart then why aren't you on the Bills staff, why aren't you the GM, how come you can't throw the ball accurately either?

 

All I know is Fitz is decent backup, that is it and it is pretty easy to see you can't win with him. He has proven it.

That's one conclusion that can be drawn from Fitz's body of work. The other conclusion is that he is serviceable as a starter. Average talent, above average awareness and leadership. Can win a few games, however ugly it may be at times. Good enough to wait for the right guy to come along in the draft and address the WORST defense in the league in the meantime.

 

Although Gailey and Nix give Fitz nothing but praise they have both said they are looking to draft a franchise QB. They do not see Fitz as the long term answer to the Bills QB situation either.

 

Fitz is not the worst QB in the league by any stretch of the imagination either. I'll take our QB situation over Carolina, Miami, Tennessee, Minnesota, Oaktown, Arizona, Cleveland, San Francisco, and the soon to be disasters in Seattle, Washington, Detroit and Cincinnatti. Theres only 3 to 5 great QBs in the league, about 6 or 7 good ones, 1 or 2 on the cusp and then everybody else. By your estimation it seems less than half the league has "starting" caliber QBs and the rest have decent backups.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Sorry to let the crusade of one person (who has proven to be a broken record… a one-trick pony with zero depth or perspective) hijack the thread.

 

Back on topic, the jury is still out on Gailey as an NFL Head Coach.

 

His two seasons in Dallas were marginally successful but he was there at a bad time. They were an aging team, set in their ways. Gailey got better play out of the Cowboys than did Switzer in Switzer's last year. Then after Gailey was fired in favor of Dave Campo, the Cowboys got worse.

 

Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake to fire Gailey but he might have been sincere about that or not.

 

I would say the situation in Dallas was difficult and the fact that he got them to the playoffs both years and won a division title is pretty good performance. They were worse the season before Gailey and the 3 seasons after Gailey.

 

As far as last year with the Bills, there were some missteps for sure, but also some encouraging signs. I think the one thing that gets overlooked is that last year was largely a look-and-see year. Until you coach players, you don't really know what you have. I feel that Gailey and Nix used the year as a ways of taking stock and evaluating the organization and its players.

 

Like I said, IMO it's too early to judge Gailey. This year will paint a clearer picture.

[tennesseeboy]

I agree that the jury is out, AND that there have been positive signs in the last part of last season, but Chan deserves a number 32 ranking at least considering his Buffalo tenure. I sincerely hope that will change in the coming season, and there is reason for hope. I will also say this...if there isn't a significant improvment this season Chan should be gone.

[Jauronimo]

I agree that the jury is out, AND that there have been positive signs in the last part of last season, but Chan deserves a number 32 ranking at least considering his Buffalo tenure. I sincerely hope that will change in the coming season, and there is reason for hope. I will also say this...if there isn't a significant improvment this season Chan should be gone.

 

We should reserve judegment (since the jury is still out) but considering Chan's "tenure" of 1 year you've judged him to be at least the 32nd best coach in the NFL? You wouldn't go lower, maybe 33 or 34? I'm sure Chan will be happy to know that he's in the top 50 of current NFL head coaches. Only 32 guys can say that, including a few first time head coaches one of which has never coached in the NFL before.

 

So we should fire Chan in his second season, while we withhold judgement mind you, if there isn't significant improvement, so we can bring in another HC, switch systems, have to draft new personnel to run the new defense and new offense, and if that doesn't work by year 2, fire that guy, new systems, new draft needs, etc. and repeat as necessary. Sounds like a good plan.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Jauronimo

[eball]

Sorry to let the crusade of one person (who has proven to be a broken record… a one-trick pony with zero depth or perspective) hijack the thread.

 

Back on topic, the jury is still out on Gailey as an NFL Head Coach.

 

His two seasons in Dallas were marginally successful but he was there at a bad time. They were an aging team, set in their ways. Gailey got better play out of the Cowboys than did Switzer in Switzer's last year. Then after Gailey was fired in favor of Dave Campo, the Cowboys got worse.

 

Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake to fire Gailey but he might have been sincere about that or not.

 

I would say the situation in Dallas was difficult and the fact that he got them to the playoffs both years and won a division title is pretty good performance. They were worse the season before Gailey and the 3 seasons after Gailey.

 

As far as last year with the Bills, there were some missteps for sure, but also some encouraging signs. I think the one thing that gets overlooked is that last year was largely a look-and-see year. Until you coach players, you don't really know what you have. I feel that Gailey and Nix used the year as a ways of taking stock and evaluating the organization and its players.

 

Like I said, IMO it's too early to judge Gailey. This year will paint a clearer picture.

What I've learned over the years is that everyone wants an "instant" assessment. Of everything. It's prevalent in all aspects of life. There is no patience, no "wait and see" allowed. Produce instantly, or you are labeled a failure.

 

While the Buffalo Bills have been horrid for the better part of ten years, the only real constant is the man signing the checks. They've had three "mini-organizations" during that span. The first -- Donahoe/Williams/Mularkey -- showed early signs of progress and then flamed out horribly as high draft picks failed to produce, free agents were allowed to depart, and an aging Bledsoe was shown the door. The second -- Levy/Jauron -- seemed intent only on initially restoring respectability, without ever doing the things necessary to truly compete. At the end, desperate measures (drafting Maybin) took priority over building a solid roster. We're now in year two of the third "mini-organization" -- Nix/Gailey -- and it's simply too early to make any broad assumptions.

 

In one year, though, Gailey showed me more promise as a HC than Williams, Mularkey, and Jauron combined.

[sllib olaffub]

I think it is pretty easy to assess Chan Gailey - as of right now, it is up in the air. There is no way to say he is a great coach or a terrible coach. It's pretty safe to say, rather, that he is at the very least a good coach, or else he wouldn't be in the NFL.

You can't judge Gailey by Dallas - he took over a team on the decline, with so many superstar veterans that there was pretty much no way he could have walked in to that locker room and took over; there were too many conflicting ego's and opinions, and there's some people that would probably say the players didn't give him everything, and they didn't all buy into his system. The owner of the Cowboys has said if he could do things differently, he'd have kept Chan Gailey - that is a pretty good endorsement.

As for Buffalo and what he's done thus far, keep in mind he wasn't taking over a team with much talent, and the talent he had wasn't suited for the type of team he wanted to stand behind. You've got to give Gailey and Nix another two years before you can say with any real certainty how good he is. Sure, we should see more from him this year, and I expect we will.

 

I, for one, like Gailey and I like Nix, too. I don't see Gailey as the type of coach who is so smart and so innovative that he'll take the league by storm and create a legacy team. I wish he were, and I hope he proves me wrong. I mean, this hybrid defense is beginning to be played elsewhere, and his theory about the future of QBing in the NFL might lead us to have both a unique, cutting edge offense and defense - so there is still hope. Cowher also endorsed him, by the way. I think at the least he is an old school coach who seems to insist on having a tough, big team (which I am so grateful for, because that small, Tampa 2 garbage was making it almost impossible for me to watch), and I saw enough just last year to see that by the end of the year we were going toe to toe with just about all our opponents.

 

I'm going to say that by next year he'll be considered a top 12 coach in the NFL.

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't think players determine how good a coach is. Only how many wins he gets.

 

A good coach is someone who gets the best out of his players. If we had 2-14 talent last year but still won 4 games, then Chan is already a good coach.

 

Too simplistic.

 

If that were the criteria then Jauron would have been a good coach because as Bum Phillips would say " he could win (7 games) with his and win (7 games) with yourn'".

 

Jauron was a good transition coach to take over for a guy like Mike Mularkey, whose operation had turned sloppy and uninspired after only 2 seasons.

 

Jauron came in, cleaned up all the penalties, played not to lose, which kept the team in games it would have been blown out in during the Mularkey years and in turn got the team to play hard.

 

Problem is, that was his only trick. He didn't know how to get better. I applauded his work in his first year, and also called for his firing, because he had already proven that was all he could do.

 

That's been a running theme with Bills coaches......they do some things well and others they do very poorly.

 

Gailey has his shortcomings. He hasn't hired well. He hasn't shown a good grasp of defense, which is surprising because he has an extensive defensive background. I also don't think he will have much staying power in the lockerroom if he doesn't win. He has a tendency to throw players subtly under the bus and I don't think he has a great connection with them.......which, again, is fine if you are a proven winner. Obviously Gailey is not.

 

A good NFL head coach is consistently good at all aspects. He knows how to teach, motivate, delegate, strategize and get the most out of all available talent. The Bills never seem to get that guy.

[billsfan89]

His tenure in Buffalo will be decided by the next 2 seasons, if he turns things around that ranking will go up. These rankings are also stupid.

[transient]

Too simplistic.

 

If that were the criteria then Jauron would have been a good coach because as Bum Phillips would say " he could win (7 games) with his and win (7 games) with yourn'".

 

Jauron was a good transition coach to take over for a guy like Mike Mularkey, whose operation had turned sloppy and uninspired after only 2 seasons.

 

Jauron came in, cleaned up all the penalties, played not to lose, which kept the team in games it would have been blown out in during the Mularkey years and in turn got the team to play hard.

 

Problem is, that was his only trick. He didn't know how to get better. I applauded his work in his first year, and also called for his firing, because he had already proven that was all he could do.

 

That's been a running theme with Bills coaches......they do some things well and others they do very poorly.

 

Gailey has his shortcomings. He hasn't hired well. He hasn't shown a good grasp of defense, which is surprising because he has an extensive defensive background. I also don't think he will have much staying power in the lockerroom if he doesn't win. He has a tendency to throw players subtly under the bus and I don't think he has a great connection with them.......which, again, is fine if you are a proven winner. Obviously Gailey is not.

 

A good NFL head coach is consistently good at all aspects. He knows how to teach, motivate, delegate, strategize and get the most out of all available talent. The Bills never seem to get that guy.

 

Actually, I get the feeling that both he and Nix are straightforward with the media, and if they're saying it to reporters, it's probably already been said to the player in a less subtle way.

 

What I like is Gailey also takes the blame that you know he should take (e.g. his remarks about how part of Spiller's lack of production is on the player and part on the coach). He acknowledges and corrects his mistakes quickly (e.g. Edwards) instead of trying agonizingly long to prove he's right before making the changes.

Edited June 7, 2011 by transient

[transient]

We had one of the worst records in the league. No excuses. He's a poor coach until he produces a winning team.

 

And on the other side of the coin.

 

Until we produce a winning record, it's easy to say we have one of the least talented teams in the league.

 

I don't think you can really look at the win-loss record of last year as an indication of Gailey's abilities in and of itself. The first 5-8 games pretty much were an assessment of which players could be serviceable in new schemes over the next several seasons and dictated what direction we needed to go in this year's draft, and the rest of the season was more toward getting youth some playing time. By that measure, they were 4-7 after a 5 game "real-time" assessment (if preseason performance meant anything, Edwards would still be here), with 3 OT losses and a 3 pt loss to Chicago in there before they puked up the last two of the season (which, btw, landed us Dareus, so...). I guess I'm saying I see some light... time will tell if it's finally the end of the tunnel or another trainwreck of a head coach.

Edited June 7, 2011 by transient

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The Bleacher Report rates Gailey the 29th best head coach in the NFL. Agree or disagree?

 

This one is stump-simple to diagnose.

 

It's all about the W. Show 'em the baby.

 

How do you think Belicheat would have been ranked, oh, in 1995 after 5-11 season with the Browns?

[sllib olaffub]

How do you think Belicheat would have been ranked, oh, in 1995 after 5-11 season with the Browns?

That is exactly why I reserve any real judgement for a while - even Belicheck might be somewhere in the 20-32 range if it weren't for a variety of lucky bounces; the right owner, the right QB (which only comes along like that once a decade or so, and goes a long way towards helping everything else work out), certain habits...

Gailey is certainly a good coach, but for everything to fall into place for us here - which happened so perfectly for Marv Levy, so much of that due to Polian and Butler - we've got a couple of seasons to see how they put it all together. I'm excited for what we have as a foundation.

[Orton's Arm]

You are correct. Everyone talks about how he is this offensive genius, and quarterback guru, but he really hasn't done anything here yet, or in the NFL period for that matter to be ranked very high. He took over the same team pretty much as the year before, except healthier and won less games? That isn't going to shoot you up the list of coaches rankings.

Granted. But he did lose Aaron Schobel, who had been the defense's best pass rusher the previous several years. Some of the other players in his defensive front-7 looked like age was catching up to them. I suspect the defense would have taken a significant step for the worse even if they'd retained Jauron's old scheme.

 

That being said, they probably did err by moving to the new 3-4 scheme too soon, before they had the right personnel for it. It's possible they were thinking not just of the 2010 season, but future seasons. The thought may have been that the only way to really see which guys are a good fit for the 3-4 is to plug them in, and see which guys sink and which guys swim. Apparently more guys sank than they expected, forcing a temporary reversion to the 4-3.

 

On offense, Fitz played considerably better than he had at any point in his past. Not well enough to be the answer at QB, but probably a step above what we've been used to seeing from the position. A lot of the credit for that goes to Fitz himself, but a lot also has to go to Gailey for the offensive scheme and coaching he provided.

 

Overall, Gailey coached like a guy who was still in the midst of learning about his roster's strengths and limitations well into the season. I give him credit for (eventually) coming up with ways to put his players in positions to succeed. My concern is that he may have taken longer than he should have to have figured out what his players could and couldn't do. The previous regime had initially given no opportunities at all for players like Fred Jackson and Stevie Johnson to show what they could do, except in the preseason. I hope that Gailey won't similarly get in players' way through an inability to recognize talent and potential. To his credit, Gailey does seem faster about recognizing and correcting his mistakes than the previous regime had been.

[thewildrabbit]

Unless Nix can get better players for Gailey than Levy and Brandon did for Jauron, his W-L record looks to be worse.

 

I just don't buy that, good coaches can step into a bad team and instantly make them better, not worse. Look back at Chuck Knox, he inherited a horrid team that was so bad that fans wouldn't even attend pre-season game

 

The Bills were 3-11 under Jim Ringo in 77, Knox hired 5-11- 7-9 11-5 in 3 years playoffs all with a complete moron in Stew Barber as GM. The man was a supreme motivator and got a bunch of nobody's to believe they were good. Lets not forget that Knox needed to go up against the "don" to win the division, and he did just that. Good coaches don't need 3-5 years, 2-3 years max. Marty S is another guy that has turned around bad teams very quickly just by hiring the right assistants, implementing good schemes, and motivating the players.

 

This is Nix / Gailey second year, lets hope they improve.

[The Senator]

I expect he'll be COTY after this season...

 

19 and 0 baby!!!

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

Reverse The Curse!!!!!

[tennesseeboy]

We should reserve judegment (since the jury is still out) but considering Chan's "tenure" of 1 year you've judged him to be at least the 32nd best coach in the NFL? You wouldn't go lower, maybe 33 or 34? I'm sure Chan will be happy to know that he's in the top 50 of current NFL head coaches. Only 32 guys can say that, including a few first time head coaches one of which has never coached in the NFL before.

 

So we should fire Chan in his second season, while we withhold judgement mind you, if there isn't significant improvement, so we can bring in another HC, switch systems, have to draft new personnel to run the new defense and new offense, and if that doesn't work by year 2, fire that guy, new systems, new draft needs, etc. and repeat as necessary. Sounds like a good plan.

he's the 32nd coach because that is the position he earned after taking a mediocre team and making it into a bad team, at least based on wins and losses. I wouldn't fire him for not getting to the playoffs in year 2 but would fire him if he didn't get nine wins. I would have (and did) expect him to get nine wins last season, but the play of the team in the second half of the season earned him this season to show improvement. You gotta hold folks accountable if you want a viable program.

 

Chan made a bunch of mistakes...edwards, too early to change to a 204 without the personnel, failure to keep quality players, failure to acknowledge or address glaring talent gaps. He has hopefully addressed them, but don't kid yourself. He has not shown enough to warrant any extension past next year without showing significant results in the won/lost column.

 

he's the 32nd coach because that is the position he earned after taking a mediocre team and making it into a bad team, at least based on wins and losses. I wouldn't fire him for not getting to the playoffs in year 2 but would fire him if he didn't get nine wins. I would have (and did) expect him to get nine wins last season, but the play of the team in the second half of the season earned him this season to show improvement. You gotta hold folks accountable if you want a viable program.

 

Chan made a bunch of mistakes...edwards, too early to change to a 204 without the personnel, failure to keep quality players, failure to acknowledge or address glaring talent gaps. He has hopefully addressed them, but don't kid yourself. He has not shown enough to warrant any extension past next year without showing significant results in the won/lost column.

whoops...too early to change to a 3-4.

[K-9]

I just don't buy that, good coaches can step into a bad team and instantly make them better, not worse. Look back at Chuck Knox, he inherited a horrid team that was so bad that fans wouldn't even attend pre-season game

 

The Bills were 3-11 under Jim Ringo in 77, Knox hired 5-11- 7-9 11-5 in 3 years playoffs all with a complete moron in Stew Barber as GM. The man was a supreme motivator and got a bunch of nobody's to believe they were good. Lets not forget that Knox needed to go up against the "don" to win the division, and he did just that. Good coaches don't need 3-5 years, 2-3 years max. Marty S is another guy that has turned around bad teams very quickly just by hiring the right assistants, implementing good schemes, and motivating the players.

 

This is Nix / Gailey second year, lets hope they improve.

 

Good call on Knox coming in and instilling a winning attitude. That '77 team started running for the bus in early November.

 

But Knox didn't step in and make them instantly better from a talent perspective. Sure he was a great coach but even he couldn't make chicken salad out of the chicken sh*t roster he inherited from Ringo. He turned that roster over quickly and by 1980 there were only a three starters on offense and three on defense remaining from that '77 team. This is where Gailey and Nix are now. Like Knox, they recognize the need to upgrade the talent first and foremost.

 

Good players make good coaches. Good coaches make good players great.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Jauronimo]

he's the 32nd coach because that is the position he earned after taking a mediocre team and making it into a bad team, at least based on wins and losses. I wouldn't fire him for not getting to the playoffs in year 2 but would fire him if he didn't get nine wins. I would have (and did) expect him to get nine wins last season, but the play of the team in the second half of the season earned him this season to show improvement. You gotta hold folks accountable if you want a viable program.

 

Chan made a bunch of mistakes...edwards, too early to change to a 204 without the personnel, failure to keep quality players, failure to acknowledge or address glaring talent gaps. He has hopefully addressed them, but don't kid yourself. He has not shown enough to warrant any extension past next year without showing significant results in the won/lost column.

 

 

whoops...too early to change to a 3-4.

 

I love your plan. It rewards coaches who cling to mediocrity and punishes those who take risks and try to install new systems. Changing coaches every 2 years for failing to break the 9 win barrier is the way to go. It perpetuates the rebuilding process, which is the most exciting time for the fans. Who doesn't love a 10 year rebuild characterized by total discontinuity and radical changes in direction? Oakland has demonstrated that this approach can deliver the occasional 8-8 season, which proves the system works.

 

On to Chan's mistakes. Contrary to popular belief, Gailey doesn't make personnel decisions. He doesn't sign or draft players. Addressing the talent gap in a sustainable way takes time, and is the responsibility of the GM. Is there ever really a good time to change defenses? Do you ever have all the pieces for a 3-4 and 4-3 simultaneously? You can either continue playing 4-3 while drafting 3-4 and wait until the pieces are there, or you can start playing and drafting in the new system so that its a mature system by the time the pieces are in place. Is one option that much better than the other?

[T master]

Any way you look at it i think he is a lot better than what we had ! Just in his on the field presence . Gailey has 100 times more enthusiasm than Jauron ever thought of having on the field or in pracice .

 

And a team takes on it's coach demeanor !!

 

If Jauron's on field persona is anything like his bed room persona i feel really bad for his old lady --- WOW !!!

Edited June 7, 2011 by T master