pBills Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 They've only had control of the house for 6 months. The Dems had control of both houses and the WH for two years. Y'Know, this has been pointed out to you at length many many times, yet you still puke out the same old ****. How old are you? And they still conceded to the Republicans. Puked out the same ****? What the hell are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 yep, i agree. He will win back some independents, thats for sure if a deal gets struck. The big winners out of this will be the American Public and Obama. The big losers will be whoever wins the GOP nomination, most likely ROmney. However, I still believe ROmney will win over the independents and Florida (if he picks Rubio), which means he would be our next president. If, and it's still a big if, Obama can take credit for negotiating a deal that really addresses the debt, he can combine that with Obamacare, killing OBL, "saving" economy from Bush mess, and withdrawing many troops from Middle East to make a pretty hard-to-beat incumbent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Now Boehner is pulling back on the 4 trillion dollar deal. I'm telling you: Obama is going to get a lot of leverage out of this. The Republicans are being self-servingly idiotic. Raising taxes is part of any rational plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 If, and it's still a big if, Obama can take credit for negotiating a deal that really addresses the debt, he can combine that with Obamacare, killing OBL, "saving" economy from Bush mess, and withdrawing many troops from Middle East to make a pretty hard-to-beat incumbent. 9.2% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Now Boehner is pulling back on the 4 trillion dollar deal. I'm telling you: Obama is going to get a lot of leverage out of this. The Republicans are being self-servingly idiotic. Raising taxes is part of any rational plan. The Republicans have to be able to claim next year that they were strong-armed into raising taxes. Otherwise their base will crucify them. I heard an idea on the radio today: for every dollar the debt ceiling is raised, the Democrats give up a dollar of spending from their pet programs, and the Republicans give up a dollar of taxes from their pet tax breaks. That just makes too much damn sense to ever pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 My concern with the whole $X of tax cuts for $Y of spending cuts, is that once the deal is in place the tax cuts are alot easier to enforce than the spending cuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 My concern with the whole $X of tax cuts for $Y of spending cuts, is that once the deal is in place the tax cuts are alot easier to enforce than the spending cuts True...but that goes with any spending cuts, in any form. And given that we've had eight years of "It's not really deficit spending if it's not in the budget. Why is everyone laughing?" followed by almost three years of "It's a revenue problem, not a spending problem, really. Why is everyone laughing?" spending is probably not getting addressed effectively any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 If, and it's still a big if, Obama can take credit for negotiating a deal that really addresses the debt, he can combine that with Obamacare, killing OBL, "saving" economy from Bush mess, and withdrawing many troops from Middle East to make a pretty hard-to-beat incumbent. You're out of your mind. In what crazy fantasyland do you think Obama will make Obamacare part of his 2012 strategy? Already the high unemployment rate is on a run that exceeds the Carter years. The economy is sucking ass, people have no money, consumer confidence couldn't be lower if Nancy Pelosi was president, the housing market is in the crapper, the only company hiring is McDonalds, noone has any confidence in this spineless idiot, and you actually think Obama's plan is look the country in the eye and say things like "Obamacare is great and if it weren't for me, things could be worse?" A debt deal right now would be good for all, there is no question, but the election is a year-and-a-half away and people have ALREADY forgotten about killing Bin Laden. You're obviously not hurting, but a lot of the country still is and if a lot of the country doesn't get relief soon, there's not a debt deal-Obamacare-dead Bin Laden story that can help Obama. "...combine that with Obamacare..." "...saving the economy..." Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Now Boehner is pulling back on the 4 trillion dollar deal. I'm telling you: Obama is going to get a lot of leverage out of this. The Republicans are being self-servingly idiotic. Raising taxes is part of any rational plan. So Obama's going to run on "The Republicans refused to raise taxes" to get reelected? Good luck. Tax rates are fine right where they are. If the government is spending more than 20% of GDP you have a spending problem, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 So Obama's going to run on "The Republicans refused to raise taxes" to get reelected? Good luck. No he's going to run on "Seniors didn't get their Social Security check because of the Republicans" with a commercial showing some depressed looking old white people and some ominous background music. He'll run on "Children went hungry because of Republicans" with a commercial showing some sad looking black children and some ominous background music He'll run on "Unemployment is up because Republicans played with the debt ceiling" with a commercial showing some depressed looking people standing in line outside a building and some ominous background music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Responsible citizens and households live within their means and so should the government. The government does not have a tax problem, they have a spending problem. period. their entitlements are unsustainable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) So Obama's going to run on "The Republicans refused to raise taxes" to get reelected? Good luck. Tax rates are fine right where they are. If the government is spending more than 20% of GDP you have a spending problem, period. You're another tool missing the point. The base of the right and left is set. The independents swung to Obama last time. Most Independents realize that the debt problem won't be solved by burying your head in the sand on spending and taxes. You have to BOTH cut spending and raise taxes to solve that. Will that lower unemployment? Probably not. But as Magox keeps saying (WTF is the world coming to...I'm quoting Magox)...9-10% unemployment and 2-3% growth is the new norm. People will have to get used to that while we fix the underlying economic problems. It will take 20-25 years to fix but I'd rather hand my kids a better country than go for another BS bandaid. DC Tom: I hope you're right and this is just more posturing. My concern: It's a little late for this big ballsy kid of posturing. Now it's time to get the deal done. Shake hands with the other side and for once, just once, proclaim that this one is a win for the American people and not party. Or at least shake hands and blame the other guy for making you give in on things you didn't want to. Edited July 10, 2011 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 You're another tool missing the point. The base of the right and left is set. The independents swung to Obama last time. Most Independents realize that the debt problem won't be solved by burying your head in the sand on spending and taxes. You have to BOTH cut spending and raise taxes to solve that. Will that lower unemployment? Probably not. But as Magox keeps saying (WTF is the world coming to...I'm quoting Magox)...9-10% unemployment and 2-3% growth is the new norm. People will have to get used to that while we fix the underlying economic problems. It will take 20-25 years to fix but I'd rather hand my kids a better country than go for another BS bandaid. DC Tom: I hope you're right and this is just more posturing. My concern: It's a little late for this big ballsy kid of posturing. Now it's time to get the deal done. Shake hands with the other side and for once, just once, proclaim that this one is a win for the American people and not party. Or at least shake hands and blame the other guy for making you give in on things you didn't want to. Why don't you go check the history of tax revenue as it relates to GDP. Then check the history of base line spending as a % of GDP. Then learn about the Laffer curve and Hauser's law, which are different but not mutually exclusive theories on the relationship between tax rates and tax revenues. Then come back and give me your informed opinion. Or you could go the Dave in Norfolk route and just stick to your preconceived ideals that seem plausible to you and discount any evidence that runs contrary to that. I'll get you started: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703514904575602943209741952.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 !@#$ing asshats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 "I have been hearing from our Republican friends that it's a moral imperative for us to tackle our deficits in a serious way," Obama told reporters at a briefing Monday. "So what I've said to them is let's go. It is possible for us to construct a package to involve both parties to take on their sacred cows." This is really turning into a nightmare for Republicans. They are screaming about the debt but are totally unserious about how to deal with it. And Obama might just come through this with a big win. Leadership! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 This is really turning into a nightmare for Republicans. They are screaming about the debt but are totally unserious about how to deal with it. And Obama might just come through this with a big win. Leadership! What's a win in your book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 What's a win in your book? Democrats get everything they want, Republicans get nothing, so the Democrats can win both halves of Congress and the White House in '12 and fix all the damage the Republicans have cause the past four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Democrats get everything they want, Republicans get nothing, so the Democrats can win both halves of Congress and the White House in '12 and fix all the damage the Republicans have cause the past four years. Look. Up in the sky!! It's a bird. It's an airplane. It's .... A rainbow farting unicorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 What's a win in your book? Probably the same as our amazing leader: raise the debt limit and pay off our entire debt by cancelling the private jet tax and eating your peas. WINNING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Probably the same as our amazing leader: raise the debt limit and pay off our entire debt by cancelling the private jet tax and eating your peas. WINNING! He could always have the Fed buy all the debt, then take it over like they did Fannie and Freddie. Then the government would owe themselves the money, and could either pay themselves, or simply say "!@#$ it" - either way, it ends up being a net wash. In fact, I'll bet that right now there's some White House or Congressional staffer saying "Heeeeeeeey...that's not a bad idea..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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