Magox Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Conventional conservative logic- but we are at post ww2 lows in taxes for the wealthy, the top 1% has the greatest share of income 23% and wealth 40% since 1929, and businesses are sitting on record levels of cash. The reason no one is building and hiring is lack of demand,average American factories are barely operating at 75% of capacity- and with the policies in place and what looks to be the policies of the future increase consumption from America and Europe seems unlikely- so sans smart stimulus it looks like we are waiting for increased consumption from China and the rest of the developing world. One thing you are right about is this continued economic malaise is Obama's fault but for listening to Bernanke and Geithner about how money pumped into the Banks and finance was going to trickle down to the real economy. Nope, that is only part of the problem, business uncertainty, improving technology a deleveraging process that hasnt filtered its way completely through on the private and public sector and crimping regulation are largely to blame as well. Edited June 30, 2011 by Magox
GG Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 It is, but we wont be seeing anything close to a 5% GDP growth on a sustained basis no matter who is in there. 2.5% is the new normal. And Adam, the only way our future SS problem will be solved is if we end up raising the age of when recipients can begin to start collecting benefits. They dont have to raise the age of people are close to retiring now, but more like people below the age of 45 or 50. I'm not saying that a 5% growth rate is sustainable, but it's obscene that you only have 2.5% growth coming out of a recession. You explained the reasons for that above. It's time to hope for a new change.
Magox Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) I'm not saying that a 5% growth rate is sustainable, but it's obscene that you only have 2.5% growth coming out of a recession. You explained the reasons for that above. It's time to hope for a new change. well, I hope you are right, and in 95% of the cases we should come out of a recession much stronger than just 2.5%, I just happen to see this as one evolving shitstorm that morphes from one economic malaise to another. I honestly believe that we have major structural hurdles to overcome that will take quite some time to overcome. also just to finish my point that i was trying to make yesterday, this is what Obama said yesterday: “If everybody else is willing to take on their sacred cows, … then I think it would be hard for the Republicans to stand there and say that the tax breaks for corporate jets is sufficiently important that we’re not willing to come to the table and get a deal done. Or we’re so concerned about protecting oil and gas subsidies for oil companies that are making money hand over fist, that’s the reason we’re not going to come to a deal.” Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/58079.html#ixzz1QlBTFhId For crying out loud, just eliminate the oil subsidies and the tax breaks for corporate jets. The tax breaks for corporate jets only comes out to $3Billion, thats it!! Just freaking do it and now you eliminate the strawman! Once they do that, they pretty much will have a carte blanche of options for cuts that they can request and as I was saying earlier, you take away their strawman. I just hope they are smart enough to compromise on these two points. Edited June 30, 2011 by Magox
1billsfan Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) well, I hope you are right, and in 95% of the cases we should come out of a recession much stronger than just 2.5%, I just happen to see this as one evolving shitstorm that morphes from one economic malaise to another. I honestly believe that we have major structural hurdles to overcome that will take quite some time to overcome. also just to finish my point that i was trying to make yesterday, this is what Obama said yesterday: Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/58079.html#ixzz1QlBTFhId For crying out loud, just eliminate the oil subsidies and the tax breaks for corporate jets. The tax breaks for corporate jets only comes out to $3Billion, thats it!! Just freaking do it and now you eliminate the strawman! Once they do that, they pretty much will have a carte blanche of options for cuts that they can request and as I was saying earlier, you take away their strawman. I just hope they are smart enough to compromise on these two points. The oil companies would just pass down the costs of the elimination of oil subsidies to us. I thought you would know that by now. 50 percent of Americans pay no taxes at all, yet we're supposed to get all up in arms about a corporate jets break that he approved of in the first place? Which is basically a one grain of sand in the Sahara difference? Yesterday's news conference was like an Obama's greatest hits record on why he's been such a failure. Class warfare. He demonized the job creators while weeping and chest clutching for the people who pay no taxes. How's that been working for you Barry? For any Clinton dems or Reagan deems that was fooled into voting for this loser, that news conference should serve you early notice that he is a dyed in the wool socialist who has no plans to change or pivot. Do you want another four years of a depression like economy? Is that what you want for your children? Your family? Your friends? Maybe congress really should lead in an attempt to help the jobless and the children. They could do this by impeaching Obama and repealing his stupid job killing healthcare bill...ba-da-bump Edited June 30, 2011 by 1billsfan
GG Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 well, I hope you are right, and in 95% of the cases we should come out of a recession much stronger than just 2.5%, I just happen to see this as one evolving shitstorm that morphes from one economic malaise to another. I honestly believe that we have major structural hurdles to overcome that will take quite some time to overcome. also just to finish my point that i was trying to make yesterday, this is what Obama said yesterday: Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/58079.html#ixzz1QlBTFhId For crying out loud, just eliminate the oil subsidies and the tax breaks for corporate jets. The tax breaks for corporate jets only comes out to $3Billion, thats it!! Just freaking do it and now you eliminate the strawman! Once they do that, they pretty much will have a carte blanche of options for cuts that they can request and as I was saying earlier, you take away their strawman. I just hope they are smart enough to compromise on these two points. If the debate was a substantive one about seriously reforming the tax code, then I don't think you'd find much disagreement and a deal would be struck. But since Obama has a very hard time letting go of his inner Castro, he's "unintentionally" gumming up the process. There is absolutely no need for him to pull out the populist card mere weeks away from a pending default. Just watching Bloomberg TV, with two CEOs who are generally are pro-Obama, and they were both critical of his policies and actions.
Taro T Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The oil companies would just pass down the costs of the elimination of oil subsidies to us. I thought you would know that by now. 50 percent of Americans pay no taxes at all, yet we're supposed to get all up in arms about a corporate jets break that he approved of in the first place? Which is basically a one grain of sand in the Sahara difference? Yesterday's news conference was like an Obama's greatest hits record on why he's been such a failure. Class warfare. He demonized the job creators while weeping and chest clutching for the people who pay no taxes. How's that been working for you Barry? For any Clinton dems or Reagan deems that was fooled into voting for this loser, that news conference should serve you early notice that he is a dyed in the wool socialist who has no plans to change or pivot. Do you want another four years of a depression like economy? Is that what you want for your children? Your family? Your friends? Maybe congress really should lead in an attempt to help the jobless and the children. They could do this by impeaching Obama and repealing his stupid job killing healthcare bill...ba-da-bump On what grounds? And to what purpose? While I disagree w/ the majority of his policies, I don't see what he's done as being impeachable. (I could see calling it incompetant but not impeachable.) Even if the House did vote to impeach him (which I don't see happening) the Senate would never go along. The surest way to get him re-elected would be to go on a witch hunt.
IDBillzFan Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Let me try to put this in another way. The elimination of these oil subsidies and this private jet thingy are so miniscule in tangible terms relative to our debt problems, they absolutely make virtually no difference whatsoever. Notice how I said in tangible terms, meaning real actual value in reducing the debt. Yet, the argument to the American public is much more powerful than what it really is. Fact: More than 60% of the US public has a negative view of the oil companies. Why wouldnt you eliminate these oil subsidies, and eliminate this strawman attack from the left at the same time? Its not like its gonna cost the US economy jobs. There is so much global interest in oil, eliminating these subsidies would virtually have no effect on the US job sector, or for that matter prices. Again, if you close these loopholes, then what could the libs say? You just now took away their strawman, and now you can claim compromise and push for even more cuts. This is what I am trying to say I completely agree with what you're saying: the concessions requests being put on the right are so stupid and easy to give up, it's worth it just to take that weapon out of the left's arsenal. I simply take issue with the fact that the hard-right no-compromise stance is the problem here.
1billsfan Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 On what grounds? And to what purpose? While I disagree w/ the majority of his policies, I don't see what he's done as being impeachable. (I could see calling it incompetant but not impeachable.) Even if the House did vote to impeach him (which I don't see happening) the Senate would never go along. The surest way to get him re-elected would be to go on a witch hunt. It was a joke, that's why I put the "ba-da-bump" at the end.
Adam Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The oil companies would just pass down the costs of the elimination of oil subsidies to us. I thought you would know that by now. 50 percent of Americans pay no taxes at all, yet we're supposed to get all up in arms about a corporate jets break that he approved of in the first place? Which is basically a one grain of sand in the Sahara difference? Yesterday's news conference was like an Obama's greatest hits record on why he's been such a failure. Class warfare. He demonized the job creators while weeping and chest clutching for the people who pay no taxes. How's that been working for you Barry? For any Clinton dems or Reagan deems that was fooled into voting for this loser, that news conference should serve you early notice that he is a dyed in the wool socialist who has no plans to change or pivot. Do you want another four years of a depression like economy? Is that what you want for your children? Your family? Your friends? Maybe congress really should lead in an attempt to help the jobless and the children. They could do this by impeaching Obama and repealing his stupid job killing healthcare bill...ba-da-bump Solar power will save us!
DC Tom Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 It was a joke, that's why I put the "ba-da-bump" at the end. Oh, that's a good one. Don't quit your day job Sinbad. I completely agree with what you're saying: the concessions requests being put on the right are so stupid and easy to give up, it's worth it just to take that weapon out of the left's arsenal. I simply take issue with the fact that the hard-right no-compromise stance is the problem here. ...but the left's isn't. They're all idiots. They're each delusional if they believe the other side has to compromise and they don't. In fact...that's not even "compromise".
erynthered Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/could-obama-ignore-congress-refuse-raise-debt-ceiling-142136726.html Interesting read.
Gary M Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/could-obama-ignore-congress-refuse-raise-debt-ceiling-142136726.html Interesting read. So, now all of a sudden the democrats find the constitution?
DC Tom Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 So, now all of a sudden the democrats find the constitution? What's so sudden about it? Yet another in a long line of examples of "interpreting it in the most convenient fashion possible, no matter how inaccurate, disingenious, or stupid".
John Adams Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 http://news.yahoo.co...-142136726.html Interesting read. Jesus, are you and GG using Altavista for your web searches? And what's the problem--you feel so outmatched that you called in reinforcements? Typical baseball player--can't finish off the game so go to the bullpen. World Series TV ratings...plummeting Last year, record lows. Even comparing viwewers to viewers, it's less than the 1999 WOMEN's World Cup. Arguing with you dinosaurs is like beating up retards.
Adam Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Jesus, are you and GG using Altavista for your web searches? And what's the problem--you feel so outmatched that you called in reinforcements? Typical baseball player--can't finish off the game so go to the bullpen. World Series TV ratings...plummeting Last year, record lows. Even comparing viwewers to viewers, it's less than the 1999 WOMEN's World Cup. Arguing with you dinosaurs is like beating up retards. I am searching with my abacuses or is that abaci?
DC Tom Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I am searching with my abacuses or is that abaci? Abacone.
Peace Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I am searching with my abacuses or is that abaci? In English, abacuses. Always.
DC Tom Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 In English, abacuses. Always. "Beaded counting thingies."
erynthered Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Jesus, are you and GG using Altavista for your web searches? And what's the problem--you feel so outmatched that you called in reinforcements? Typical baseball player--can't finish off the game so go to the bullpen. World Series TV ratings...plummeting Last year, record lows. Even comparing viwewers to viewers, it's less than the 1999 WOMEN's World Cup. Arguing with you dinosaurs is like beating up retards. My God, Not yours. Cause you dont have one. But Geeze Louise, you're a Fuccking idiot! And I say that with the utmost Simonesq respect.
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