mjt328 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Story link Includes highlights of both players at the bottom of the page. The Bills haven't had the best luck during their 50-plus year history. But few franchises have enjoyed their consistent success in running the ball. In Buffalo's early AFL years, fullback Cookie Gilchrist was the league's first 1,000-yard rusher and set a record in 1962 with 13 touchdowns scored. In the eighties, Joe Cribbs was one of the NFL's top young rushers and was voted to three Pro Bowls while with the Bills. Most recently, the team has gotten strong performances from players like Travis Henry, Willis McGahee and Marshawn Lynch. And then somewhere in between, you have a couple other guys...named O.J. Simpson and Thurman Thomas. Edited June 2, 2011 by mjt328
KD in CA Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I love Thurman, but come on. OJ was one of the premiers players in NFL history.
K-9 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Are you going to confine the responses to those that actually saw both of them play their entire careers or just base the argument on pure stats which is all anyone who didn't see both of them play would have to go on? For my money, the better RB was OJ and it's not even close and I LOVED TT. He was a world-class sprinter with great athletic skill and good size who was a threat to break it every time he had the rock. He didn't enjoy the luxury of working out of a spread offense with an HOF QB, 2 HOF WRs (Reed deserves it), and 4 Pro Bowl OLmen (and a fifth, John Davis, who deserved it). In short he was the only legitimate offensive threat we had and he did it routinely with teams geared to stop him and him alone. All that said, I am always reluctant to compare players across eras. It's always a mistake. GO BILLS!!!
trigger Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Stop it. Please. For those of us who are old enough and fans enough to have watched both of these guys play, this is like comparing Michael Jordan with Scottie Pippen in terms of talent. Pippen was great, but MJ was spectacular. Had OJ played with a team as talented as those '90's Bills were--and played 16 game schedules--he would still be in the record books.
ARTnSocal Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Such a silly question .... 1) OJ 2) Thurmanator 3) Joe Cribbs You should have asked who had the best name 1) Preston Ridlehuber
Red Squirrel Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Thurman possibly squeezed more out of his talent than anyone, but the talent gap between the two is so vast there really is no way getting around it. OJ was much bigger, stronger, and above all, faster. It would be fair to say that neither could have been used the same way the other one was; OJ couldn't catch or pass block like Thurman, and Thurman could never have been a 30 carry a game guy, game after game...much less average 5 to 6 yards a carry. And honestly, if OJ had started his career in 1988, there would have been no K-gun. OJ was a special talent, and any coach with brains (unlike what he was dealing with his first three years) would have fed him the ball as much as humanly possible. I'll also contradict K-9 a bit about the talent level of their teammates; yes, Thurman played with more talented guys, but the '70s Bills weren't without other threats. Braxton would pound the ball up the middle like a sledgehammer, and didn't scare you to death about fumbling like Mueller and Gardner did. Chandler and Hill were pretty good receivers (would have been really nice if they kept Rashad, too). And Fergy figured it out by his third year and punished teams that overplayed the run; he threw 26 TDs in '75 in a 14-game schedule. And o-line play was vastly different back then; the Electric Company were smaller, but most of them could run circles around modern day lineman. This would have helped Thurman, but not to a level where he averages 6 YPC for a whole season.
K-9 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Such a silly question .... 1) OJ 2) Thurmanator 3) Joe Cribbs Cookie 4.) Joe Cribbs You should have asked who had the best name 1) Preston Ridlehuber I had to take a little editorial privilege with your rankings. Nice mention of Ridlehuber. One of the greatest names in Bills history. Period. GO BILLS!!!
Jauronimo Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Which Bills running back would you rather have date your daughter?
ARTnSocal Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Such a silly question .... 1) OJ 2) Thurmanator 3) Joe Cribbs Cookie 4) Cookie You should have asked who had the best name 1) Preston Ridlehuber I had to take a little editorial privilege with your rankings. Nice mention of Ridlehuber. One of the greatest names in Bills history. Period. GO BILLS!!! Ya know, with Cribbs jumping to the USFL in his prime, I think I erred and believe you're probably right, so flip-flopping 'em has merit .... Edited June 2, 2011 by ARTnSocal
VADC Bills Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) In my opinion Juice was the second best RB of all time when in his prime. Only Jim Brown was better. He will never get the full credit he deserves because for some it's hard to seperate the football from his personal life. When OJ touched the ball he was always a threat to take it to the house. I never saw anyone catch him from behind. I remember on NFL network on a show where they highlight top 10 regular season performances and they had the gull to rank Eric Dickerson's 2000 season ahead of OJ's even though it took him 2 more games to do it. Thurman was great clearly #2. Joe Cribbs was 3rd but he cut short his own greatness going for the USFL bucks. Cookie was great and the first Bill I remember...he just wasn't here that long. Edited June 2, 2011 by VADC Bills
ExWNYer Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I agree with all of the responses above. I saw both of them play and OJ was the better player, no question. He had it all as a RB...power, speed, and good hands. He was a very good and underrated receiver, despite what some would have you believe. I would love to have seen him on the Super Bowl teams in his prime. Wow. The greatest player in Bills history, IMHO. Unbelievable, rare talent. Reprehensible human being.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 People keep mentioning OJ's measurables… which were off the charts. But no one has mentioned the thing that truly made him great (and way better than someone like Dickerson) and that is his instincts. In the history of football, there was a short list of guys with that kind of instincts. Just as no one ever has had the Hockey IQ of Wayne Gretzky, only a few runners had the runner's instincts of OJ. I didn't see Red Grange or Hugh McIlhenny play. I saw very little of Gale Sayers. But I watched OJ's career start to finish and no one since him could feel and sense tacklers without actually seeing them. p.s.- I also saw where some of The Greatest NFL Players lists had Sayers ahead of Simpson. Again, I think that stuff has become very colored by Simpson's post-career transgressions. No way should Sayers be ahead of Simpson.
K-9 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Thurman possibly squeezed more out of his talent than anyone, but the talent gap between the two is so vast there really is no way getting around it. OJ was much bigger, stronger, and above all, faster. It would be fair to say that neither could have been used the same way the other one was; OJ couldn't catch or pass block like Thurman, and Thurman could never have been a 30 carry a game guy, game after game...much less average 5 to 6 yards a carry. And honestly, if OJ had started his career in 1988, there would have been no K-gun. OJ was a special talent, and any coach with brains (unlike what he was dealing with his first three years) would have fed him the ball as much as humanly possible. I'll also contradict K-9 a bit about the talent level of their teammates; yes, Thurman played with more talented guys, but the '70s Bills weren't without other threats. Braxton would pound the ball up the middle like a sledgehammer, and didn't scare you to death about fumbling like Mueller and Gardner did. Chandler and Hill were pretty good receivers (would have been really nice if they kept Rashad, too). And Fergy figured it out by his third year and punished teams that overplayed the run; he threw 26 TDs in '75 in a 14-game schedule. And o-line play was vastly different back then; the Electric Company were smaller, but most of them could run circles around modern day lineman. This would have helped Thurman, but not to a level where he averages 6 YPC for a whole season. I hear what you're saying about the talent level surrounding OJ and I agree with your assessment that he had some good players around him. But the simple fact is that Fergy was never a Kelly, Chandler (one of my all time favorites) was never a Lofton, Hill was never a Reed, and while Joe D and Reggie Mac were fantastic in their own right at G, Dave Foley and Donnie Green will never be confused with Wolford and Ballard. Nor were Jarvis/Montler close to Kent Hull. As I said, I hate to compare players across eras. For obvious reasons. In this case I'm going by where the personnel of the respective offenses ranked in terms league-wide recognition/accolades of their peers and media at the time. The Kelly era teams garnered far more Pro Bowl and All Pro honors. I'm not saying that's the be all and end all but I just don't know how else to compare players across eras. GO BILLS!!!
KD in CA Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 p.s.- I also saw where some of The Greatest NFL Players lists had Sayers ahead of Simpson. Again, I think that stuff has become very colored by Simpson's post-career transgressions. No way should Sayers be ahead of Simpson. Funny, but Sayers is one of the very few guys I think you can make a reasonable case to be at least on par with OJ....I've only seen him in highlights of course, but he was amazing; talk about field vision and instincts! If modern sports medicine was available in the 60s, Sayers might own a truckload of records. Other than Bo Jackson, I can't think of another great who lost more to injury than he.
Lord Chinfist Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 O.J was considered the best player at any position during his prime. Thurman wasn't even considerd the best running back in the league during his prime, always in the shadow of Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith. Not to take anything away from Thurman, as he was a big part of the team's success of course, but if O.J. was on the Bills in the early 90's the offense would have been impossible to defend and there is no question in my mind they would have won at least one Super Bowl, and probably more.
ARTnSocal Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 People keep mentioning OJ's measurables… which were off the charts. But no one has mentioned the thing that truly made him great (and way better than someone like Dickerson) and that is his instincts. In the history of football, there was a short list of guys with that kind of instincts. Just as no one ever has had the Hockey IQ of Wayne Gretzky, only a few runners had the runner's instincts of OJ. I didn't see Red Grange or Hugh McIlhenny play. I saw very little of Gale Sayers. But I watched OJ's career start to finish and no one since him could feel and sense tacklers without actually seeing them. p.s.- I also saw where some of The Greatest NFL Players lists had Sayers ahead of Simpson. Again, I think that stuff has become very colored by Simpson's post-career transgressions. No way should Sayers be ahead of Simpson. All that and OJ was 'bowlegged' ...
Rubes Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I hear what you're saying about the talent level surrounding OJ and I agree with your assessment that he had some good players around him. But the simple fact is that Fergy was never a Kelly, Chandler (one of my all time favorites) was never a Lofton, Hill was never a Reed, and while Joe D and Reggie Mac were fantastic in their own right at G, Dave Foley and Donnie Green will never be confused with Wolford and Ballard. Nor were Jarvis/Montler close to Kent Hull. Got me a Chandler throwback jersey a couple years ago. Usually all I get are blank stares.
NewEra Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I agree with all of the responses above. I saw both of them play and OJ was the better player, no question. He had it all as a RB...power, speed, and good hands. He was a very good and underrated receiver, despite what some would have you believe. I would love to have seen him on the Super Bowl teams in his prime. Wow. The greatest player in Bills history, IMHO. Unbelievable, rare talent. Reprehensible human being. Agreed, except with the greatest player in bills history part. That title, IMO, will be held forever by Bruce Smith. Forever is a long time i know, but i just cant see us being so licky as to have another talent like Bruce. Looking at todays players, who are bigger stronger amd faster than 20 years ago, there isnt one that even comes close to Bruce. Suh is the closest thing, but hes more like reggie than he is Bruce. Peppers has a similar skill set, but isn't close to Bruce as a player. I'd put Oj #2.
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