White Linen Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I don't condemn the poster or anyone else that thinks Ralph is greedy and cheap. But I find that person ridiculous for following the team. What kind of person would follow a team, post on a Bills website, buy murchandise, go to games, buy the direct tv ticket, etc if they believe that the owner isn't willing or capable of fielding a winning team? Aren't those people the morons? Why do people that feel this way bash the ones that don't as if they are determined to convert them into their hipocracy. "I love and follow a team that I don't think the owner will let win", how does that make sense? So that's why those of us that negate your notions feel that you should not come here or stop following the team, not because we want to censer your right to post, but because it's so foolish and you're really making yourself look ridiculous by being your own problem.
bananathumb Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 To the OP, great and relevant rant. The lockout is squarely on the shoulders of Ralph and his fellow billionaire owners. I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Erie County who are getting screwed yearly by this old man in Detroit. When sports fans will wake up to the giant ripoff that is the NFL Incorporated, I'll never know.
Jauronimo Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 So can anyone explain to me why OBD should fund 401k and pension contributions and maintain salaries while the business has essentially shut its doors? And how is this decision, which is the basis for the rant, contributing to a losing football team? I'm not claiming that the front office is infallible or that Ralph is above reproach, but what in this instance is there really to criticize?
Homey D. Clown Posted June 1, 2011 Author Posted June 1, 2011 I don't condemn the poster or anyone else that thinks Ralph is greedy and cheap. But I find that person ridiculous for following the team. What kind of person would follow a team, post on a Bills website, buy murchandise, go to games, buy the direct tv ticket, etc if they believe that the owner isn't willing or capable of fielding a winning team? Aren't those people the morons? Why do people that feel this way bash the ones that don't as if they are determined to convert them into their hipocracy. "I love and follow a team that I don't think the owner will let win", how does that make sense? So that's why those of us that negate your notions feel that you should not come here or stop following the team, not because we want to censer your right to post, but because it's so foolish and you're really making yourself look ridiculous by being your own problem. If that's directed at me, are you saying that if what I have to say is negative, then I should quit watching them? If what I have to say goes against your views then I am to not come here to discuss the team I grew up with? Last time I checked this was, in fact a free speech society. Have a valid counter point my friend, or just go away. I have every right to love the team, watch them, and hope for the best, but be utterly disgusted with the cantankerous and stingy owner, then voice my opinion on how I view the current state of said team. How about coming up with proof that Ralph isn't a cheap NFL Owner(not a cheap charity giver PTR), and an excellent franchise manager, then rebut my statements, rather than take a few lame cheap shots that, in fact, make your post the very thing you accused mine to be.
Delete This Account Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) To the OP, great and relevant rant. The lockout is squarely on the shoulders of Ralph and his fellow billionaire owners. I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Erie County who are getting screwed yearly by this old man in Detroit. When sports fans will wake up to the giant ripoff that is the NFL Incorporated, I'll never know. yes, the bills should move. you should stop watching the nfl. i hear cricket is big in some parts. the leaders of the players union have no fault in this, it is squarely upon the owners. and it's well known that no one but Ralph Wilson is screwing NY and Erie County taxpayers. because all the other businesses and all the politicians are handling things above board, without want or desire. if only we could work our way out of the grips of this one team so that the deficit would be unheaved, and the burdensome yoak of work unhinged, so that manna would fall from the skies, and we would all be driving Escalades and Jaguars and drinking expensive Irish whiskey, and burning Benjamins in our well-adorned fireplaces, while holding exotic dinner parties, in which we've had flamingos shipped from the Caribbean and wild boar slow-cooked over open fires in the backyard, as the surviving members of the Rolling Stones perform on a stage built of emeralds and rubies, while Scarlett Johannson prances and preens on the dance floor, and night would never fall, and angels would weep golden tears out of pure and unadulterated envy. if only the Bills would leave or something ... jw Edited June 1, 2011 by john wawrow
White Linen Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 If that's directed at me, are you saying that if what I have to say is negative, then I should quit watching them? If what I have to say goes against your views then I am to not come here to discuss the team I grew up with? Last time I checked this was, in fact a free speech society. Have a valid counter point my friend, or just go away. I have every right to love the team, watch them, and hope for the best, but be utterly disgusted with the cantankerous and stingy owner, then voice my opinion on how I view the current state of said team. How about coming up with proof that Ralph isn't a cheap NFL Owner(not a cheap charity giver PTR), and an excellent franchise manager, then rebut my statements, rather than take a few lame cheap shots that, in fact, make your post the very thing you accused mine to be. No I'm simply saying you're dumb for rooting for a team that you think the owner won't let win. I clearly said that in my post. I refuse to debate the Ralph is Cheap BS. I clearly stated you have the right to think he's cheap, greedy, etc (now for the second time), but I'm confused as to why you would spend time posting about a team in which you believe can't win until the cheap owner dies?
Mickey Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I personally think that the quicker Ralph steps aside, the more likely the team could get better. You can call me a hater, basher, bad person or not a fan but Ralph has done little to change our situation for over a decade. Firing Modrak in FL was a good start, though most likely a little late is his age for it to make a difference. I have mixed feelings about Ralph. He is stubborn beyond reason and that flaw has cost him and the team dearly. But it's that same stubborn-as-a-mule personality of his that has kept the team here so long.
Bill from NYC Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I have mixed feelings about Ralph. He is stubborn beyond reason and that flaw has cost him and the team dearly. But it's that same stubborn-as-a-mule personality of his that has kept the team here so long. I agree Mickey. Ralph is a businessman first and foremost. He is less of a football man than a money guy. Anyone who thinks otherwise would have to be something of an idiot imo. Think about it.....he fired a great football man (Polian), hired two inept losers (Levy/Jauron) and made mega millions during this time frame. Still, being a Bills fan is being part of a culture and I really do thank him for this. And, I think that overall he is a good man. The thing is, we need to start winning. The damage that Levy/Jauron did to this franchise is scary, and the problems need to be solved rapidly. Meanwhile, GO BILLS!!!!!!!
transient Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I never ceases to amaze me how many people confuse cheap with misguided. Ralph is not cheap. Time and again Ralph has allowed money to be spent foolishly on this franchise (Dockery, anyone). He's attempted to bring people in to right the ship (Donahoe ring a bell?). And he didn't fire Polian over money, he fired him because he was a canterous bastard (Polian, not Ralph) who thought he could say anything to anyone because he is incredibly good at what he does. Ralph saying Buffalo is a small market is stating the obvious... at least obvious to anyone that doesn't get their panties in a bunch because of their huge area driven inferiority complex. Pittsburgh is over twice the size, and Green Bay operates under a "grandfathered" model, so the comparison isn't valid. The truth is financially, Buffalo sucks. The real estate values suck, the economy sucks, and despite that Ralph cannot use that to "sell" Buffalo to players by saying "I'll pay you less, but hey, you can buy more for less here" like he could if he was in some other business that you can account (for some degree) for cost of living. He also can't charge top dollar for tickets, or sell a bunch of luxury suites to make up the difference. On top of that, the Jerry Joneses of the league would rather he move the team and maximize profit for the good of revenue sharing instead of trying to continue to make it work in Buffalo. Despite this, Ralph has kept the team in Buffalo. Think what you want of regionalization, but it probably offsets some of this. And as some have suggested, not continuing to fund 401ks makes financial sense during the lockout. It's not like he's taking them away... they're still there, they'll just stay the same size until this mess is fixed. And it has NOTHING to do with why the organization is where it is. The thing is, none of the financial issues have ANYTHING to do with why the Bills are in the situation they're in. Ralph doesn't have to mismanage the team in to financial ruin to move them and make more money, he could have done that when the lease was up. And if it was just about the money to a 92 year old man, then sell the team to make the asset liquid. As it stands, the Bills may be a 700+ million dollar entity, but it's no different than the 25,000 investment to Wilson unless they're sold (aside from whatever yearly profit, obviously). They're in the situation they're in because because Wilson is an owner who's a fan and who thinks that his input in matters of day-to-day team operations is a GOOD thing (obviously not to a Snyder-esque level, but Ralph's input in the war-room on draft day with Jauron and Levy? C'mon). They're in this mess because of personnel decisions gone awry, be it coaching, GM, free agents, you name it. You can hold his feet to the flame over the state of the organization, but recognize that if the financial part of your argument was true, you wouldn't have an NFL team in the city to B word about.
BillnutinHouston Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Sorry... the scope of my rant was focused on his management of the team, If you want to start a "Ralph's Charitable Contributions to WNY" thread feel free. Don't worry, I didn't let meaningless facts that had no impact what has been fielded over the last 50+ years get in my way, thanks for checking though. Your OP stated "Look back at all the decisions he has made throughout the team's 50+ year history and try to not make any excuses for him while analyzing his decisions, and just see if it doesn't look like he was intentionally trying to fail." Of course your post couldn't reasonably have discussed ALL of Ralph's decisions, so let me ask this - how do seemingly illogical moves as scrapping and renovating the conditioning facilities and bringing in Dave Wannstedt as another high-priced defensive coach fit into your paradigm? Or would you argue that those, like his chartable endeavors, are "meaningless facts"? Just pointing out the silliness of painting Ralph's reign in such stark, black and white terms. Rarely do such simplistic arguments stand up to scrutiny.
birdog1960 Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 yes, the bills should move. you should stop watching the nfl. i hear cricket is big in some parts. the leaders of the players union have no fault in this, it is squarely upon the owners. and it's well known that no one but Ralph Wilson is screwing NY and Erie County taxpayers. because all the other businesses and all the politicians are handling things above board, without want or desire. if only we could work our way out of the grips of this one team so that the deficit would be unheaved, and the burdensome yoak of work unhinged, so that manna would fall from the skies, and we would all be driving Escalades and Jaguars and drinking expensive Irish whiskey, and burning Benjamins in our well-adorned fireplaces, while holding exotic dinner parties, in which we've had flamingos shipped from the Caribbean and wild boar slow-cooked over open fires in the backyard, as the surviving members of the Rolling Stones perform on a stage built of emeralds and rubies, while Scarlett Johannson prances and preens on the dance floor, and night would never fall, and angels would weep golden tears out of pure and unadulterated envy. if only the Bills would leave or something ... jw many of us would settle for a few winning seasons and a playoff appearance every 5 years or so. is a .500 long term record too much to ask for? btw, never liked escalades and i prefer bourbon and venison. now scarlett johannson....
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 if only we could work our way out of the grips of this one team so that the deficit would be unheaved, and the burdensome yoak of work unhinged, so that manna would fall from the skies, and we would all be driving Escalades and Jaguars and drinking expensive Irish whiskey, and burning Benjamins in our well-adorned fireplaces, while holding exotic dinner parties, in which we've had flamingos shipped from the Caribbean and wild boar slow-cooked over open fires in the backyard, as the surviving members of the Rolling Stones perform on a stage built of emeralds and rubies, while Scarlett Johannson prances and preens on the dance floor, and night would never fall, and angels would weep golden tears out of pure and unadulterated envy. If you ever win the lottery, can we all party at your place?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Actually Transient, there have been several times in the Bills 50-year history that Ralph Wilson has gone cheap and made stupid austerity decisions. Not so much lately but longtime fans know that he has. I agree with you in that for the most part, Wilson has run an inept organization.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 It's business; not a charity. Get over it. These coaches are not hurting. The coaches may have other lockout-related compensation issues to worry about. It has been reported that the NFLPA distributed a memo to players in mid-May entitled "CBA Chronology 2007 — March 2011: NFL's Path to a Lockout." It contains 52 entries showing the various steps the NFL and union took from March, 2007 when the NFL hired Bob Batterman, until March 1. 2011, when Judge Doty ruled in favor of the players in the TV revenues case. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/18/nflpa-document-details-nfl-path-to-lockout/print I have not yet been able to find a website displaying that entire chronolgy, but there is a Dolphin fan's website that lists a less extensive chronology and cites the NFLPA as the source of its information. I am not vouching for its accuracy, but you can see that more limited chronology here: http://dolfanjill.com/2011/02/24/nfl-nflpa-historical-lockout-time-line/ One of the entries reads: "February 2007: NFL owners began imposing lockout clauses in coaches’ and executives’ contracts that gave clubs the right to reduce compensation in the event of a lockout. Examples include language allowing the clubs to reduce, terminate, or suspend the contract on 20 days’ notice, reduce salary by 50 percent if a lockout continues for more than 90 days, terminate the employee without pay on 60 days’ notice, and extend the contract another year at the same terms as 2011 if at least eight NFL games are canceled due to a lockout." Just speculating here, but maybe that's a big reason why the coach's association filed an amicus brief in the 8th Circuit siding with the players in seeking to lift the lockout.
Scrappy Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 This leopards is not changing his spots, so anything short of major changes just falls short to me. Maybe he'll be a hero & take care of things soon, TBD.
mjt328 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Ralph deserves credit for keeping the team in Buffalo, but little else. Throughout the Bills franchise history - outside of the 90's team built by Polian - the team has consistently been at the bottom of the league. We've had dozens of coaches, hundreds in the front office and thousands of players. But the only consistent has been Ralph Wilson. Of course, the one time Ralph found success (with Polian), he ended up firing the guy for personal reasons. Polian then went and built the Colts into a powerhouse.
NoSaint Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 If that's directed at me, are you saying that if what I have to say is negative, then I should quit watching them? If what I have to say goes against your views then I am to not come here to discuss the team I grew up with? Last time I checked this was, in fact a free speech society. Have a valid counter point my friend, or just go away. I have every right to love the team, watch them, and hope for the best, but be utterly disgusted with the cantankerous and stingy owner, then voice my opinion on how I view the current state of said team. How about coming up with proof that Ralph isn't a cheap NFL Owner(not a cheap charity giver PTR), and an excellent franchise manager, then rebut my statements, rather than take a few lame cheap shots that, in fact, make your post the very thing you accused mine to be. Truly, at this point in the NFL- players and coaches turn over every 3-5 years, so when you are a fan of the franchise you are in reality stuck with the idea of being a fan of the owner, in the long term. If you so distrust the owner, then what are you really cheering for?
EastRochBillsfan Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) I agree with your post one zillion percent, and every time I mention something similar to your post, I get several people defending Ralphie and telling me to leave if I am only negative. Well you know what is negative-the Bills won-loss record over the past 15 years, and for that matter the entire history of the franchise. If Ralph isn't the worst owner in the entire NFL than he is no doubt team captain in the team photo. The only real stretch of success this organization has had that has lasted more than 3 or 4 years was in the late 80's to mid 90's and he tore that apart getting rid of people like Bill Polian and Butler. You are correct in that his biggest contribution to anything relating to football was in the early days and the establishment of the AFL, since then it has been all about money for him. He obviously doesn't give a crap about his legacy, as he obviously doesn't have enough time left to spend all his money, he is out living most of the people he would leave anything to, and he is still content to go out with his organization being one of, if not the biggest joke in the NFL. People will criticize both of us, but look at the 2010 and 2011 schedules-how many times are the Bills in prime time? None because people outside of us die hard Bills fans who are willing to be tortured (although some of us speak our minds, others live in a fantasy world with rose colored glasses), even know/care that we exist. It is kind of a no-win situation, as this team will never be a winner again until Ralph is no longer the owner, but when that time comes, they might not even be in Buffalo anymore. I have been cheering on the Bills for over 40 years, have made the trip from Virginia to training camp every year for nearly two decades, and will die a Bills fan, but sometimes you just have to voice your feelings and get some of the disgust and frustration off of your chest and be vocal, instead of running around with a big smile on your face and a "Ralph for President" T-shirt saying how great he is because he kept the Bills in Buffalo-because that is the only positive thing anyone can say about him that has happened in the past 35 years. of course you do. I don't condemn the poster or anyone else that thinks Ralph is greedy and cheap. But I find that person ridiculous for following the team. What kind of person would follow a team, post on a Bills website, buy murchandise, go to games, buy the direct tv ticket, etc if they believe that the owner isn't willing or capable of fielding a winning team? Aren't those people the morons? Why do people that feel this way bash the ones that don't as if they are determined to convert them into their hipocracy. "I love and follow a team that I don't think the owner will let win", how does that make sense? So that's why those of us that negate your notions feel that you should not come here or stop following the team, not because we want to censer your right to post, but because it's so foolish and you're really making yourself look ridiculous by being your own problem. I'm with you. It just doesn't seem like it would be fun to like the team and dislike the owner so much. It's like not being able to stand your wife, but you stay with her because you like the sex once a week. Time for a divorce in my eyes. I wish I could feel any commoradorie with fans like this, but i don't. yes, the bills should move. you should stop watching the nfl. i hear cricket is big in some parts. the leaders of the players union have no fault in this, it is squarely upon the owners. and it's well known that no one but Ralph Wilson is screwing NY and Erie County taxpayers. because all the other businesses and all the politicians are handling things above board, without want or desire. if only we could work our way out of the grips of this one team so that the deficit would be unheaved, and the burdensome yoak of work unhinged, so that manna would fall from the skies, and we would all be driving Escalades and Jaguars and drinking expensive Irish whiskey, and burning Benjamins in our well-adorned fireplaces, while holding exotic dinner parties, in which we've had flamingos shipped from the Caribbean and wild boar slow-cooked over open fires in the backyard, as the surviving members of the Rolling Stones perform on a stage built of emeralds and rubies, while Scarlett Johannson prances and preens on the dance floor, and night would never fall, and angels would weep golden tears out of pure and unadulterated envy. if only the Bills would leave or something ... jw lmao....I think? Edited June 2, 2011 by EastRochBillsfan
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