Ralph Never Fails

[White Linen]

I'm with you. It just doesn't seem like it would be fun to like the team and dislike the owner so much. It's like not being able to stand your wife, but you stay with her because you like the sex once a week. Time for a divorce in my eyes. I wish I could feel any commoradorie with fans like this, but i don't.

 

 

 

 

But it's even more than "it wouldn't be fun", it's utter stupidity. It's like calling yourself a fool. What would be the argument to root, spend time or money on a team you know the owner won't let win? Would it be that they think the team might get lucky enough to win in spite of the owners effort to thwart winning? These people are so lost they can't even see how truly ridiculous they are.

 

Furthermore they don't even realize how hard it would be to purposely do what their suggesting. It's nearly impossible to do just enough to keep selling out the stadium but not enough to win in an effort to keep every penney.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Triple Threat

[Yoho]

Among all the rants and angst, let me discuss one simple truth, without Ralph there are no Buffalo Bills. There might be the Miami Bills in the 1960's, the Arizona Bills in the 1970's, the Houston Bills in the 1990's and the Los Angeles Bills in the 2000's. Every one of them would have made more money than Ralph Wilson has made by staying in Buffalo. If you want to call him names, I would suggest starting with what kind of idiot would have kept a team in Buffalo the last 50 years? You think things will be better when he passes on? I sure hope you are right, but my logic says remember the Buffalo Braves.

[Delete This Account]

If you ever win the lottery, can we all party at your place?

i'm a sports writer. we in the business don't win lotteries. it's part of that deal we struck with the devil to be so fortunate. so i'm sorry, it'll be byob.

 

jw

[Buftex]

I don't condemn the poster or anyone else that thinks Ralph is greedy and cheap. But I find that person ridiculous for following the team. What kind of person would follow a team, post on a Bills website, buy murchandise, go to games, buy the direct tv ticket, etc if they believe that the owner isn't willing or capable of fielding a winning team? Aren't those people the morons? Why do people that feel this way bash the ones that don't as if they are determined to convert them into their hipocracy. "I love and follow a team that I don't think the owner will let win", how does that make sense?

 

So that's why those of us that negate your notions feel that you should not come here or stop following the team, not because we want to censer your right to post, but because it's so foolish and you're really making yourself look ridiculous by being your own problem.

 

 

We didn't choose to be Buffalo Bills fans, we were born into it...you get sick of people bagging on the owner, and honestly, I get just as sick of people trying to tell people how they should act if they are really fans...we love the Bills no matter who the owner is...we are from the area, we love the teams, not necessarily the owner.

 

I definitely have major problems with things that Ralph has done over the 40 years I have been following the team, but, at this point, I feel more pity for him than angry. I think he wants to win, wants to leave a positive legacy, but just doesn't know how to do it. The odd "grand periods" of Bills football, in my lifetime (Knox-era, Super Bowl era, Flutie era to a degree) kind of happened in spite of Ralph, rather than because of him...good things just kind of fell into his lap. I keep my fingers crossed that we are on the precipice of another little mini-golden era...I like Gailey, and Nix is growing on me...

[Spiderweb]

To the OP, great and relevant rant.

 

The lockout is squarely on the shoulders of Ralph and his fellow billionaire owners.

 

I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Erie County who are getting screwed yearly by this old man in Detroit.

 

When sports fans will wake up to the giant ripoff that is the NFL Incorporated, I'll never know.

 

Sorry, but had the other owners listened to Wilson in 2006, they might not have had to opt out on the agreement in 2008. The lockout, while protecting Ralph along

with the rest of the owners, would not have been needed. Just for once, maybe old Ralph was right.

 

50 years of having our Bills in Buffalo is worth gold in itself. He could have left many times over. Sure he was a meddling owner, at times cheap, and at times (believe it or not - 1990's) a bit too generous. His firing Polian will always be his number one mistake, yet to lay the lockout squarely on his (and other owners) is a bit misinformed. Again, had the other owners listened to him.......

[birdog1960]

We didn't choose to be Buffalo Bills fans, we were born into it...you get sick of people bagging on the owner, and honestly, I get just as sick of people trying to tell people how they should act if they are really fans...we love the Bills no matter who the owner is...we are from the area, we love the teams, not necessarily the owner.

 

I definitely have major problems with things that Ralph has done over the 40 years I have been following the team, but, at this point, I feel more pity for him than angry. I think he wants to win, wants to leave a positive legacy, but just doesn't know how to do it. The odd "grand periods" of Bills football, in my lifetime (Knox-era, Super Bowl era, Flutie era to a degree) kind of happened in spite of Ralph, rather than because of him...good things just kind of fell into his lap. I keep my fingers crossed that we are on the precipice of another little mini-golden era...I like Gailey, and Nix is growing on me...

exactly...it's much about nostalgia (i sure hope most don't think it's mostly about the present or recent past or they truly are into self flagellation). some of us love the bills despite wilson...i don't find that irrational at all. if you don't like the current president , is it irrational to still love your country?

[White Linen]

We didn't choose to be Buffalo Bills fans, we were born into it...you get sick of people bagging on the owner, and honestly, I get just as sick of people trying to tell people how they should act if they are really fans...we love the Bills no matter who the owner is...we are from the area, we love the teams, not necessarily the owner.

 

I definitely have major problems with things that Ralph has done over the 40 years I have been following the team, but, at this point, I feel more pity for him than angry. I think he wants to win, wants to leave a positive legacy, but just doesn't know how to do it. The odd "grand periods" of Bills football, in my lifetime (Knox-era, Super Bowl era, Flutie era to a degree) kind of happened in spite of Ralph, rather than because of him...good things just kind of fell into his lap. I keep my fingers crossed that we are on the precipice of another little mini-golden era...I like Gailey, and Nix is growing on me...

 

I agree with almost everything you've said here. I'm not someone that thinks Ralph is blameless for the losing, but I disperse the blame to who is responsible. I blame the coaches and GM's that haven't gotten the job done by not drafting or developing the players, I blame the players themselves for not producing when I think they should have, and I blame Ralph for being the head of this organization and for making the decisions to hire the people that haven't performed. It's really as simple as that. But for those that think Ralph is conspiring to make as much money as he can while not doing enough to win is frankly thoughtless and baseless.

[ETD66SS]

Is Ralph dead yet?

[billsfreak]

Many businesses have cut 401k contributions and pension funding during lean times. The NFL is a business not a charity. In any other line of business a responsible owner would have announced temporary layoffs since they aren't producing anything at the moment. Every team is cutting costs and payrolls.

 

If Ralph wasn't cutting payroll and 401k contributions I'm sure we'd have a bunch of rants about how the sky is falling. Try this on.

 

Every other owner is running their team like a first class business and Ralph is handing out money to incompetent employees, who haven't put a winner on the field in a decade, to sit around doing nothing while the lockout continues. The Bills will never be competitive with Ralph running the team like a charity. Worst run organization in sports. He could have used that money to pay another coach or build the scouting dept instead he's funding his son-in-law's fat pension and paying his niece bonuses. Every other owner is cutting costs to maintain a competitive edge for the future and here's bumbling old senile Wilson signing checks and dribbling oatmeal down his chin. This is worse than the Kelsay extension. At least he's getting paid to do SOMETHING!

And what is it that the Buffalo Bills or the NFL usually do produce in the March/April/May/June timeframe that they aren't producing this year that brings in money?

 

Truly, at this point in the NFL- players and coaches turn over every 3-5 years, so when you are a fan of the franchise you are in reality stuck with the idea of being a fan of the owner, in the long term. If you so distrust the owner, then what are you really cheering for?

So on sundays you sit and say to everyone let's see how Ralph Wilson does today against the Jets? I sure don't, I cheer for the Buffalo Bills because they are my home team, and I have always had a love for them. A fan of the team isn't being a fan of the owner, otherwise most people would be Patriot or Steeler fans, regardless where they are from. By your theory, with regard to music, if you don't like the owner of a record label, you shouldn't like any of the bands/artists or their music.

 

Ralph deserves credit for keeping the team in Buffalo, but little else.

 

Throughout the Bills franchise history - outside of the 90's team built by Polian - the team has consistently been at the bottom of the league. We've had dozens of coaches, hundreds in the front office and thousands of players. But the only consistent has been Ralph Wilson.

Of course, the one time Ralph found success (with Polian), he ended up firing the guy for personal reasons. Polian then went and built the Colts into a powerhouse.

After he took the Panthers to the NFC Championship game in just their second year in existence.

[billsfreak]

This.

 

I really do not know why someone bothers to post about how the team should be ran. Really what does it accomplish? If you do not like the way the team is functioning, as a fan your only vote in the matter is with your pocketbook.

 

If it was my team, I would run it the way I wanted to as well. Perhaps ones efforts should be focused instead on acquiring their own NFL team to run as they see fit--Instead of spewing negative thoughts every chance they get?

This board like any other site online if for people to rant, rave, discuss topics, get things off your chest, confess your man love for certain players, etc. But, if you think anything you or I or anyone else has ever said, or will ever say on here has ever or will ever accomplish anything with this team that we all love that Ralph has run into the ground, I have some bad news for you. Nobody who makes even the smallest decisions at OBD gives a crap what is said on here, that isn't the purpose of this site.

Edited June 2, 2011 by billsfreak

[Jauronimo]

And what is it that the Buffalo Bills or the NFL usually do produce in the March/April/May/June timeframe that they aren't producing this year that brings in money?

 

It's not about current cash flows, its about the projected future cash flows, which are looking pretty poor right now. You don't wait until it hits the fan to cut costs, when you know its going to hit the fan. And there is less activity at OBD right now than there normally is this time of year. Less ticket sales, no free agency, and teams are prohibited from having any contact with players which does not allow all sorts of asinine PR events with players. The towel guy in the locker room has nothing to do, and trainers employed by the team aren't working out with players. Stop being so literal and think a little bigger here Billsfreak.

 

When businesses think they're about to take a hit, 401K match is one of the first things to go. Just ask Paychex.

[mjt328]

Among all the rants and angst, let me discuss one simple truth, without Ralph there are no Buffalo Bills. There might be the Miami Bills in the 1960's, the Arizona Bills in the 1970's, the Houston Bills in the 1990's and the Los Angeles Bills in the 2000's. Every one of them would have made more money than Ralph Wilson has made by staying in Buffalo. If you want to call him names, I would suggest starting with what kind of idiot would have kept a team in Buffalo the last 50 years? You think things will be better when he passes on? I sure hope you are right, but my logic says remember the Buffalo Braves.

 

Yes. Most likely without Ralph, the Bills would have moved long ago. I get it.

But I'm so tired of this being shoved down the throats of the people in Buffalo. Why can't Ralph get any blame? He gets to do whatever he wants with the front office, put a crappy product on the field year after year...and if the fans get frustrated and critical, we get the "the Bills are going to move" pulled on us.

 

With the support this city has given the Bills, Ralph owes us. But instead of making WINNING his top effort, he's more interested in profit for his family. Nice for them. But bad for everyone that has been waiting almost 50 years for a Super Bowl. There are other owners in the league with the same "money first" philosophy (Arizona, Cincinnati for example). Fans of those teams are still waiting too.

 

Ralph says we aren't a profitable market, but he really cares about keeping the team in Buffalo. Well, then why hasn't he spent the last few decades pushing for ways to keep the team in town after he dies?

[Homey D. Clown]

This board like any other site online if for people to rant, rave, discuss topics, get things off your chest, confess your man love for certain players, etc. But, if you think anything you or I or anyone else has ever said, or will ever say on here has ever or will ever accomplish anything with this team that we all love that Ralph has run into the ground, I have some bad news for you. Nobody who makes even the smallest decisions at OBD gives a crap what is said on here, that isn't the purpose of this site.

 

 

THANK...YOU!! (Pause for drama effect)

 

Thats exactly what was intended when I posted this here, to vent and share a rant. It's funny how many people feel the need to take shots at me for writing this, but I expected it, and it's been entertaining.

 

Some people can see the underlying point when history shows how the team has been run as a profit business, this is what we get. Yes, I was born into loving this team, yes, it's possible to wish them well but still dislike the owner, yes, it brings me a sense of pride when they win, and I'll always pull for them, but just because the team never left Buffalo will I credit Ralph for thet, I credit US the taxpayers, and a few politicians who caved to his demands over the years, some reasonable demands, others just stingy, this man will leave the earth unusually wealthy, and could have easily funded stadium upgrades over the years, but chose to squeeze the state and county.

 

At some point you have to look forward to the next guy, and I am ready for that. I don't hate ralph wilson, in fact just the opposite, but that doesn't change the fact he is a miser.

[thebandit27]

Yes. Most likely without Ralph, the Bills would have moved long ago. I get it.

But I'm so tired of this being shoved down the throats of the people in Buffalo. Why can't Ralph get any blame? He gets to do whatever he wants with the front office, put a crappy product on the field year after year...and if the fans get frustrated and critical, we get the "the Bills are going to move" pulled on us.

 

With the support this city has given the Bills, Ralph owes us. But instead of making WINNING his top effort, he's more interested in profit for his family. Nice for them. But bad for everyone that has been waiting almost 50 years for a Super Bowl. There are other owners in the league with the same "money first" philosophy (Arizona, Cincinnati for example). Fans of those teams are still waiting too.

 

Ralph says we aren't a profitable market, but he really cares about keeping the team in Buffalo. Well, then why hasn't he spent the last few decades pushing for ways to keep the team in town after he dies?

 

Ralph doesn't owe you anything. If you are a fan of the team, you are a fan of your own accord. You choose to be a fan, to watch the team, buy tickets, buy merchandise, etc. That is your choice. The only owing that may exist is the money you owe the team if you choose to purchase a good or service. This is called commerce.

 

Nobody forces you to support the team, so please don't insinuate that you are owed anything. You are not.

[BMWR100RT]

I'm the guy on page 1 who vented frustration at losing my Mom (huge fan of the Bills). I appreciate those who felt my pain.

 

All those who were talking of Ralph keeping the Bills in Buffalo and what a great guy he is, answer this. Couldn't the Steelers (a similar sized market team) be in LA, Arizona, etc.? Why doe that never come up? It's because they are competent owners. We have Ralph. Arrrgghh!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

some of us love the bills despite wilson...i don't find that irrational at all. if you don't like the current president , is it irrational to still love your country?

This is exactly true and the same analogy I use all the time.

 

It's not contradictory at all to love the team and dislike the owner.

 

 

[White Linen]

THANK...YOU!! (Pause for drama effect)

 

Thats exactly what was intended when I posted this here, to vent and share a rant. It's funny how many people feel the need to take shots at me for writing this, but I expected it, and it's been entertaining.

 

Some people can see the underlying point when history shows how the team has been run as a profit business, this is what we get. Yes, I was born into loving this team, yes, it's possible to wish them well but still dislike the owner, yes, it brings me a sense of pride when they win, and I'll always pull for them, but just because the team never left Buffalo will I credit Ralph for thet, I credit US the taxpayers, and a few politicians who caved to his demands over the years, some reasonable demands, others just stingy, this man will leave the earth unusually wealthy, and could have easily funded stadium upgrades over the years, but chose to squeeze the state and county.

 

At some point you have to look forward to the next guy, and I am ready for that. I don't hate ralph wilson, in fact just the opposite, but that doesn't change the fact he is a miser.

 

The contradiction that you live in is that you think you're allowed to rant, but when people want to rant back, you don't like it. You say you expected it and it's entertaining in a sarcastic tone as if we should just accept your rant post as truth and not respond. I don't see any posts where you've respected the opposing position, but you think those that disagree with you should.

 

 

You say you think Ralph has put a subpar product on the field in an effort to only make money well you're going to eat your words when you get "the next guy". The next guy is going to have close to 800 million invested and is going to have to make money above that investment. So if you think burden's on tax payers and ticket holders are high now wait till you see what the next guy is going to have to do to be viable financially. Which is the biggest concern in the argument of whether a team can be kept in Buffalo.

 

some of us love the bills despite wilson...i don't find that irrational at all. if you don't like the current president , is it irrational to still love your country?

 

Not even close to a proper analogy. The President in this country is elected, the owner of an NFL franchise isn't. Therefore if you don't like the president you can vote in 4 years and actively do something about your displeasure. If you lived in a country where the president wasn't elected and you had to wait until he died for change then your analogy of whether you'd love your country then could be discussed.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Sorry... the scope of my rant was focused on his management of the team, If you want to start a "Ralph's Charitable Contributions to WNY" thread feel free. Don't worry, I didn't let meaningless facts that had no impact what has been fielded over the last 50+ years get in my way, thanks for checking though.

 

yeah? then why this:

 

(Rant incited by his bastardly 401k and pension stunt)

[afl0226]

I never ceases to amaze me how many people confuse cheap with misguided. Ralph is not cheap. Time and again Ralph has allowed money to be spent foolishly on this franchise (Dockery, anyone). He's attempted to bring people in to right the ship (Donahoe ring a bell?). And he didn't fire Polian over money, he fired him because he was a canterous bastard (Polian, not Ralph) who thought he could say anything to anyone because he is incredibly good at what he does. Ralph saying Buffalo is a small market is stating the obvious... at least obvious to anyone that doesn't get their panties in a bunch because of their huge area driven inferiority complex. Pittsburgh is over twice the size, and Green Bay operates under a "grandfathered" model, so the comparison isn't valid. The truth is financially, Buffalo sucks. The real estate values suck, the economy sucks, and despite that Ralph cannot use that to "sell" Buffalo to players by saying "I'll pay you less, but hey, you can buy more for less here" like he could if he was in some other business that you can account (for some degree) for cost of living. He also can't charge top dollar for tickets, or sell a bunch of luxury suites to make up the difference. On top of that, the Jerry Joneses of the league would rather he move the team and maximize profit for the good of revenue sharing instead of trying to continue to make it work in Buffalo. Despite this, Ralph has kept the team in Buffalo. Think what you want of regionalization, but it probably offsets some of this.

 

And as some have suggested, not continuing to fund 401ks makes financial sense during the lockout. It's not like he's taking them away... they're still there, they'll just stay the same size until this mess is fixed. And it has NOTHING to do with why the organization is where it is.

 

The thing is, none of the financial issues have ANYTHING to do with why the Bills are in the situation they're in. Ralph doesn't have to mismanage the team in to financial ruin to move them and make more money, he could have done that when the lease was up. And if it was just about the money to a 92 year old man, then sell the team to make the asset liquid. As it stands, the Bills may be a 700+ million dollar entity, but it's no different than the 25,000 investment to Wilson unless they're sold (aside from whatever yearly profit, obviously).

 

They're in the situation they're in because because Wilson is an owner who's a fan and who thinks that his input in matters of day-to-day team operations is a GOOD thing (obviously not to a Snyder-esque level, but Ralph's input in the war-room on draft day with Jauron and Levy? C'mon). They're in this mess because of personnel decisions gone awry, be it coaching, GM, free agents, you name it. You can hold his feet to the flame over the state of the organization, but recognize that if the financial part of your argument was true, you wouldn't have an NFL team in the city to B word about.

 

 

I agree, money doesn't necessarily make a team, think about the money Snyder has thrown around for the Redskins with little success. It is a matter of spending money wisely and putting the right people in place to guide that spending toward success. I think Ralph has the best interests of the team in mind but might not be making the right decisions. If he was only focused on making money and being cheap he would have moved the team years ago, to a market that would provide much more financial in flows. To say that Ralph is cheap is an ignorant statement, but I understand why so much blame is put on the way he has handled the team. In the grand scheme of things cutting salaries and 401Ks for a few months while this issues is being sorted out will not have as big of an impact as some other teams taking more drastic measures. At least the FO has given the staff plenty of warning of the cuts they are making, some teams, I believe the Dolphins, made cuts that completely caught their staff off guard. The staff has shown their commitment to the decisions that Ralph has made by speaking out against the filings the coaches union has made against the owners, so if the staff themselves understand the stance ownership has made who are we to judge the decisions from a viewpoint that doesn't have a complete understanding of the situation.

 

I'm the guy on page 1 who vented frustration at losing my Mom (huge fan of the Bills). I appreciate those who felt my pain.

 

All those who were talking of Ralph keeping the Bills in Buffalo and what a great guy he is, answer this. Couldn't the Steelers (a similar sized market team) be in LA, Arizona, etc.? Why doe that never come up? It's because they are competent owners. We have Ralph. Arrrgghh!

 

 

I do feel for you and your loss of your mother, but I do not understand what you are getting at? Obviously the Rooney's have the same commitment to keeping their team in the area that is committed to them. What does how competent they are as owners have to do with keeping them in Pittsburg? If they where out to making as much money as possible they might also move the team to a region where they could get away with charging even higher ticket prices. You are also comparing the actions of what you call "competent owners" to the actions of Ralph... Maybe I am missing something.

 

THANK...YOU!! (Pause for drama effect)

 

Thats exactly what was intended when I posted this here, to vent and share a rant. It's funny how many people feel the need to take shots at me for writing this, but I expected it, and it's been entertaining.

 

Some people can see the underlying point when history shows how the team has been run as a profit business, this is what we get. Yes, I was born into loving this team, yes, it's possible to wish them well but still dislike the owner, yes, it brings me a sense of pride when they win, and I'll always pull for them, but just because the team never left Buffalo will I credit Ralph for thet, I credit US the taxpayers, and a few politicians who caved to his demands over the years, some reasonable demands, others just stingy, this man will leave the earth unusually wealthy, and could have easily funded stadium upgrades over the years, but chose to squeeze the state and county.

 

At some point you have to look forward to the next guy, and I am ready for that. I don't hate ralph wilson, in fact just the opposite, but that doesn't change the fact he is a miser.

 

When a team is run as a profit business? What would you suggest a team is run as? Do you expect an owner of any business to run it as a charity or to not work towards making a profit? Even businesses that run as not for profit still work to make money, the money for the most part is just put back into the business, management still can make extremely high salaries. I am not sure if you are suggesting that the Bill's ownership has no interest in winning, but if Ralph did not have an interest in winning and only for profit he would have sold the team when it was at its highest value and went off and invested in other profit producing businesses that were more secure and lucrative.

[birdog1960]

 

Not even close to a proper analogy. The President in this country is elected, the owner of an NFL franchise isn't. Therefore if you don't like the president you can vote in 4 years and actively do something about your displeasure. If you lived in a country where the president wasn't elected and you had to wait until he died for change then your analogy of whether you'd love your country then could be discussed.

i wasn't aiming for "proper". ... more like apt. now who's being literal or even a bit silly?

 

ya think most egyptians don't love their country? libyans? disenfranchised kuwaitis? they sure don't seem to like their unelected leaders.

 

and nfl fans can voice displeasure in places like this and comment sections in newspapers. one can be even more crass if they don't confiscate your signs and paper bags at the stadium gate. voting en masse with your wallet is probably most effective.