Egypt Opens Gaza Border

[Justice]

And you have first-hand experience with the Arab-Israeli conflict? You were actually involved in the decision to attack Egypt and Syria in 1967, or the attack on the Liberty?

 

Or could it be you actually mean "Just 'cause it's written don't make it true...unless it supports my preconceived notions and validates my sad, pathetic excuse for a life?" Because everything you've presented on the subject so far ignores anything and everything that would contradict it - for example, the documented radio communications of the IAF that indicate the pilots and operational HQ had no idea they were attacking a US ship...

 

 

 

 

 

Truce? I'm not fighting. You're an idiot. That's an observation, not a fight.

 

Don't like it? Don't be an idiot.

 

You really should have better reading comprehension skills for a person that throws around that idiot word a lot . You're kind of like an idiot connoisseur, since you are one yourself and as they say, "it takes one to know one".

 

I said "I like to hear first hand accounts", I didn't say I have to be there. Moron.

 

I guess you didn't bother to look into my links that I provided that had first hand account testimony from the actual survivors of The USS Liberty Attack, huh?

 

Well, I also have an observation of my own, according to your post count, YOU are the one with NO LIFE. That's proof positive evidence for your butt, right there. So why don't you crawl back under your blankeys and cry me a river and take a look into your pathetic, unfulfilled, wood crafting life!

 

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, why come at it me with, "my sad, pathetic excuse for a life", isn't that my insult I made towards you? Or is that the banality of someone who reads books BECAUSE they can't form their own opinions, you plagiarizing sheep!

 

I'm done with you. All the books you read can't help you outwit me in the ranking game. It's an unfair match and I don't like to pick on the defenseless!

Edited May 30, 2011 by b.harami98

[Justice]

It couldn't possibly be their fault? They were pushed into it? They can't even take ownership of slaughtering a child?

 

 

 

 

Again with the counting numbers of dead people. How about counting the number each side INTENDS to kill? And I don't mean right before they pull a trigger or shoot a mortar. I mean as their stated goal.

 

And the four year old kid with the slit throat was not "playing the role" of a victim.

 

Don't argue with me, argue with Newton.

[DC Tom]

And the four year old kid with the slit throat was not "playing the role" of a victim.

 

At least, not until his head was bouncing down a flight of stairs...

[Booster4324]

I didn't say anything about his wife. I was talking about mine.

 

You edited it, thank you.

[ieatcrayonz]

Don't argue with me, argue with Newton.

I didn't even know Cam was jewish zionist. So they control the NFL draft too?

[GG]

You really should have better reading comprehension skills for a person that throws around that idiot word a lot . You're kind of like an idiot connoisseur, since you are one yourself and as they say, "it takes one to know one".

 

I said "I like to hear first hand accounts", I didn't say I have to be there. Moron.

 

 

So, I'm guessing that in your sitdowns with Yasser, you have a keen insight into the Palestinians' plight? I would like to know exactly how a KGB trained vagabond, with no Palestinian roots, suddenly became your people's leader. How he had so much compassion for you that his wife never set foor in Palestine, while she was getting spa soaks in Paris and collecting millions that he was bilking from that regime? Any self introspection on your part on that?

 

I'm sure that he confessed to happily playing along as the Soviet proxy in the Cold War. Sucks for him that he picked the wrong side. And yet, the people he supposedly represented continue to live in squalor.

 

I'm sure that everyone you speak with thinks that the various intifadas are a success. I'm sure you know that prior to 2000, Palestinians had plenty of leeway to travel into & out of Israel and Palestine's economy was growing. Yet, when he needed to make a choice of letting his people know what was agreed to in Oslo, Arafat reverted to form and gave up all gains for Intifada II. Brilliant, I tell you.

 

I'm sure that everyone YOU speak with blames Israel for Palestinian troubles, yet you're too ignorant to recognize that your people have been played like a cheap fiddle and a large part of the predicament is self-imposed.

[DC Tom]

So, I'm guessing that in your sitdowns with Yasser, you have a keen insight into the Palestinians' plight? I would like to know exactly how a KGB trained vagabond, with no Palestinian roots, suddenly became your people's leader. How he had so much compassion for you that his wife never set foor in Palestine, while she was getting spa soaks in Paris and collecting millions that he was bilking from that regime? Any self introspection on your part on that?

 

I'm sure that he confessed to happily playing along as the Soviet proxy in the Cold War. Sucks for him that he picked the wrong side. And yet, the people he supposedly represented continue to live in squalor.

 

I'm sure that everyone you speak with thinks that the various intifadas are a success. I'm sure you know that prior to 2000, Palestinians had plenty of leeway to travel into & out of Israel and Palestine's economy was growing. Yet, when he needed to make a choice of letting his people know what was agreed to in Oslo, Arafat reverted to form and gave up all gains for Intifada II. Brilliant, I tell you.

 

I'm sure that everyone YOU speak with blames Israel for Palestinian troubles, yet you're too ignorant to recognize that your people have been played like a cheap fiddle and a large part of the predicament is self-imposed.

 

Not ignorant, stupid. Ignorance can be cured. B.harami's stupidity can't be.

 

I said "I like to hear first hand accounts", I didn't say I have to be there. Moron.

 

Even worse...you cherry-pick your information with explicit and conscious bias, ensuring it's short on facts and long on righteous indignation.

 

I guess you didn't bother to look into my links that I provided that had first hand account testimony from the actual survivors of The USS Liberty Attack, huh?

 

Case in point. If you honestly think the righteous indignation of the crew of the Liberty gives you ANY insight into the decision loop that caused the attack, you're even dumber than I've been giving you credit for.

 

Well, I also have an observation of my own, according to your post count, YOU are the one with NO LIFE. That's proof positive evidence for your butt, right there. So why don't you crawl back under your blankeys and cry me a river and take a look into your pathetic, unfulfilled, wood crafting life!

 

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, why come at it me with, "my sad, pathetic excuse for a life", isn't that my insult I made towards you? Or is that the banality of someone who reads books BECAUSE they can't form their own opinions, you plagiarizing sheep!

 

So you repeat what you "hear", and it's forming an intelligent opinion. I read, and it's "plagirizing"? You really are an idiot.

 

I'm done with you. All the books you read can't help you outwit me in the ranking game. It's an unfair match and I don't like to pick on the defenseless!

 

That'd be sad if it wasn't so pathetic.

[pBills]

Not ignorant, stupid. Ignorance can be cured. B.harami's stupidity can't be.

 

 

 

Even worse...you cherry-pick your information with explicit and conscious bias, ensuring it's short on facts and long on righteous indignation.

 

 

 

Case in point. If you honestly think the righteous indignation of the crew of the Liberty gives you ANY insight into the decision loop that caused the attack, you're even dumber than I've been giving you credit for.

 

 

 

So you repeat what you "hear", and it's forming an intelligent opinion. I read, and it's "plagirizing"? You really are an idiot.

 

 

 

That'd be sad if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

 

Tom are you an expert on everything Egypt and Gaza now? If so, I'll just add that to the list.

[DC Tom]

Tom are you an expert on everything Egypt and Gaza now? If so, I'll just add that to the list.

 

Moreso than the pinhead I'm arguing with, I'm sure.

[Justice]

Wow! Not once did I support Arafat, Abbas, or the Palestinian government for that matter, and somehow you come to the conclusion that I do? Amazing! I've been against the government of Palestine for quite some time now. I don't agree with resistance through violence, either. To me, gaining the world's sympathy is the best way to get our own state back.

 

Some of you people just love to think the worst of people and that's a crying shame. It's almost as if you want someone to disagree with you just so you can have an argument.

 

They had the ability to travel before 2000, you say? Really? That's funny, because my cousins couldn't even get into the Israeli side or Jerusalem in '92 when I visited.

 

 

 

So, I'm guessing that in your sitdowns with Yasser, you have a keen insight into the Palestinians' plight? I would like to know exactly how a KGB trained vagabond, with no Palestinian roots, suddenly became your people's leader. How he had so much compassion for you that his wife never set foor in Palestine, while she was getting spa soaks in Paris and collecting millions that he was bilking from that regime? Any self introspection on your part on that?

 

I'm sure that he confessed to happily playing along as the Soviet proxy in the Cold War. Sucks for him that he picked the wrong side. And yet, the people he supposedly represented continue to live in squalor.

 

I'm sure that everyone you speak with thinks that the various intifadas are a success. I'm sure you know that prior to 2000, Palestinians had plenty of leeway to travel into & out of Israel and Palestine's economy was growing. Yet, when he needed to make a choice of letting his people know what was agreed to in Oslo, Arafat reverted to form and gave up all gains for Intifada II. Brilliant, I tell you.

 

I'm sure that everyone YOU speak with blames Israel for Palestinian troubles, yet you're too ignorant to recognize that your people have been played like a cheap fiddle and a large part of the predicament is self-imposed.

 

Tom are you an expert on everything Egypt and Gaza now? If so, I'll just add that to the list.

 

Sure be does. He's brilliant, plus he has no life so he reads all the time. Forget experiencing the situation in Palestine like I have and actually being there, he read about it. That carries so much more weight.

Edited May 31, 2011 by b.harami98

[Justice]

I find it laughable that you're writing a book and have absolutely no reading comprehension skills and can't spell worth a lick.

 

I said you were plagiarizing, that's how it's spelled BTW, my material when I made the comment about you having no life and you said the same thing right back to me.

 

Not ignorant, stupid. Ignorance can be cured. B.harami's stupidity can't be.

 

 

 

Even worse...you cherry-pick your information with explicit and conscious bias, ensuring it's short on facts and long on righteous indignation.

 

 

 

Case in point. If you honestly think the righteous indignation of the crew of the Liberty gives you ANY insight into the decision loop that caused the attack, you're even dumber than I've been giving you credit for.

 

 

 

So you repeat what you "hear", and it's forming an intelligent opinion. I read, and it's "plagirizing"? You really are an idiot.

 

 

 

That'd be sad if it wasn't so pathetic.

[DC Tom]

I find it laughable that you're writing a book and have absolutely no reading comprehension skills and can't spell worth a lick.

 

I said you were plagiarizing, that's how it's spelled BTW, my material when I made the comment about you having no life and you said the same thing right back to me.

 

Who'm I plagirizing, exactly?

 

And what do I need reading comprehension for, anyway, if it's, as you say, all wrong anyway?

 

Really, if you're going to be a whiny little empty-headed B word, try to at least be consistent about it.

Edited May 31, 2011 by DC Tom

[Justice]

Who'm I plagirizing, exactly?

 

And what do I need reading comprehension for, anyway, if it's, as you say, all wrong anyway?

 

Really, if you're going to be a whiny little empty-headed B word, try to at least be consistent about it.

 

How many times do I have to explain it? Damn, you are a pea brain! For real, you need some help. I can't hold your hand through this, I thought I made it abundantly clear in my last post. You were stealing my material about having no life, moron. Get it through your thick skull!

[GG]

Wow! Not once did I support Arafat, Abbas, or the Palestinian government for that matter, and somehow you come to the conclusion that I do? Amazing! I've been against the government of Palestine for quite some time now. I don't agree with resistance through violence, either. To me, gaining the world's sympathy is the best way to get our own state back.

 

Some of you people just love to think the worst of people and that's a crying shame. It's almost as if you want someone to disagree with you just so you can have an argument.

 

They had the ability to travel before 2000, you say? Really? That's funny, because my cousins couldn't even get into the Israeli side or Jerusalem in '92 when I visited.

 

 

Ok, have to agree with Tom, you're not ignorant.

 

You claim not to support Arafat or PA (and I'm guessing Hamas), but are appalled at the living conditions which are the direct result of the leaders' actions? Ok. Why do you think that Jerusalem was closed in '92? Could a little Palestinian uprising at that time have anything to do with it?

 

If you truly knew the history of the region, you would know that the intervening period between the Intifadas produced tangible results for Palestinians, and the framework for a real deal between the two sides was close. But Arafat just couldn't stop being Arafat. And here you are blaming everybody else.

[DC Tom]

How many times do I have to explain it? Damn, you are a pea brain! For real, you need some help. I can't hold your hand through this, I thought I made it abundantly clear in my last post. You were stealing my material about having no life, moron. Get it through your thick skull!

 

I'm plagiarising YOU??? What, you got sick of not knowing anything about the USS Liberty, so you decided to resort to the amazing tactic of claiming "you have no life" as your intellectual property and accusing me of stealing it?

 

 

You really are a stakehead.

 

Ok, have to agree with Tom, you're not ignorant.

 

You claim not to support Arafat or PA (and I'm guessing Hamas), but are appalled at the living conditions which are the direct result of the leaders' actions? Ok. Why do you think that Jerusalem was closed in '92? Could a little Palestinian uprising at that time have anything to do with it?

 

If you truly knew the history of the region, you would know that the intervening period between the Intifadas produced tangible results for Palestinians, and the framework for a real deal between the two sides was close. But Arafat just couldn't stop being Arafat. And here you are blaming everybody else.

 

You just don't understand, because you read things instead of HEARING them like he does.

 

Sorry, btw, for you having to agree with me. The pain fades quickly.

Edited May 31, 2011 by DC Tom

[Justice]

Accountability. A very important word. I place a lot of blame on the Palestinians for the situation that they're in. All the blame does not go to Israel or the people of Israel, but Rabin, who was very instrumental in the peace process, was assassinated by one of his own. If Rabin was still around, I believe peace would've been attained, you just can't blame it all on that idiot Arafat.

 

As far as your comment about the Intifada goes, I wasn't the one that claimed Palestinians were free to travel before 2000, you did. You forgot about the intifada. Besides, my cousins couldn't go to the Israeli side when I was there in '86 either and that was before the Intifada.

 

 

Ok, have to agree with Tom, you're not ignorant.

 

You claim not to support Arafat or PA (and I'm guessing Hamas), but are appalled at the living conditions which are the direct result of the leaders' actions? Ok. Why do you think that Jerusalem was closed in '92? Could a little Palestinian uprising at that time have anything to do with it?

 

If you truly knew the history of the region, you would know that the intervening period between the Intifadas produced tangible results for Palestinians, and the framework for a real deal between the two sides was close. But Arafat just couldn't stop being Arafat. And here you are blaming everybody else.

[Justice]

God forbid this country gets overtaken by someone and then ultimately ends up back into the hands of the Native Americans and they give us a small piece of land to live on and then continuously build settlements on that making our chicken scraps even smaller. Maybe then you'll have a different perspective on what the Palestinians have to go through.

 

Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.

[erynthered]

Throw more rocks. That should work.

[meazza]

Tom/gg, what do you guys think will be the result of the PAs bid for a state in September? I'm assuming it will be vetoed but will it actually change anything?

[....lybob]

I think Tom has had a stroke, he has three spelling errors in this thread, and he's usually pretty meticulous about spelling . I can't wait for his book "Making enemies and not influencing people" it's sure to be a best seller among the cantankerous curmudgeon crowd.

 

The attack on the USS Liberty was at best gross incompetence combined with disregard for the rules of engagement or human life and at worse a planned attack on an American ship. I guess you could believe that the attackers missed the 5 by 8ft American flag or the clear identification on the hull, or just a number of mistakes as put forth by a Israeli review

 

from Wikipedia

In the historical report, it was acknowledged that IDF naval headquarters knew at least three hours before the attack that the ship was "an electromagnetic audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy" but concluded that this information had simply "gotten lost, never passed along to the ground controllers who directed the air attack nor to the crews of the three Israeli torpedo boats."

The Israeli government said that three crucial errors were made: the refreshing of the status board (removing the ship's classification as American, so that the later shift did not see it identified), the erroneous identification of the ship as an Egyptian vessel, and the lack of notification from the returning aircraft informing Israeli headquarters of markings on the front of the hull (markings that would not be found on an Egyptian ship). As a common root of these problems, Israel blamed the combination of alarm and fatigue experienced by the Israeli forces at that point of the war when pilots were severely overworked.

 

but even if you believe that they didn't know it was a U.S. ship they still made an unprovoked attack on a ship in international waters, continued to attack when it should have been apparent that the only armaments the ship had was 50cal machine guns. They also strafed sailors who had stopped any return fire and were trying to ready lifeboats. With the possible exception of Britain I can't Imagine the U.S. accepting the given explanation by any other country, could you imagine what would have happen to Egypt if they were the ones to attack and gave the same explanation.