DC Tom Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 I'd suggest looking to something other than an opinion piece to find information on what happened. About 3 lines in it was apparent that that link's sole purpose was to attack the police. Now, it's entirely possible that this link did get it right, but I had a tough time reading through its obvious bias. I got a paragraph in before I started ignoring the "story" and read the included links instead. But I don't have an open mind that lets me run unquestioning with the "police suck!" motif of the op-ed piece, like Pete does. Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth - Buddha They can bury reports and lie and deceive, but the truth is coming out Probably in Zeitgeist 3, and you'll be the first to enlighten us closed-minded people who dare to question it.
Pete Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 I got a paragraph in before I started ignoring the "story" and read the included links instead. But I don't have an open mind that lets me run unquestioning with the "police suck!" motif of the op-ed piece, like Pete does. Probably in Zeitgeist 3, and you'll be the first to enlighten us closed-minded people who dare to question it. The first hour of Zeitgeist 3 is very interesting. It is a couple brilliant psychologists speaking about nature versus nurture. Very fascinating. And police serve their function in a society and it is not an easy job. But when they shoot an innocent man 60 times I cannot defend them. They were hoping to catch Guerena with weed and prosecute him. Well in my book shooting an innocent man defending his family 60 is a hell of a lot worse then possessing hemp. So my friend is a waiter at a local restaurant. Some young kid there received weed in the mail. The police could of busted him right away. Instead they waited until the kid was at work- and ATF comes storming in with assault rifles. My friend said it was intimidating as hell. Customers asked him "what is going on?". My friend said "the health department is really tough these days". A little levity in light of the shock and awe technique meant to intimidate. Shock and awe for hemp. A bit overkill, don't you think?
DrDawkinstein Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 The raids on the other homes carried out that same morning, all part of the same operation, resulted in no arrests and turned up little if any actual contraband. Imagine what would happen to you if you performed your job so poorly that it directly contributed to killing a person.
UConn James Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 It's not sad, Buftex. It's blood-boiling. What have we let this country's governments become?
Nanker Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Evidently having an address similar to someone that smokes marijuana can contribute as well... He shouldn't have pulled the rifle, but that is whacked. Legalize weed now! How 'bout you just drop the pipe. That would work too, you know.
Pilsner Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Absolutely disgusting what happened to this marine and his family. The cover up is extremely disturbing as well. This type of injustice just makes my blood boil. I hope the truth comes out and those at fault pay a high price.
Booster4324 Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 How 'bout you just drop the pipe. That would work too, you know. They didn't find any marijuana there. Unless your solution is just say No for 100% of the country Nancy, it wouldn't have helped this guy.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Maybe when they broke in, he didn't know who it was and PTSD kicked in... Did he only do wha he was trained to do? Send his family off to protect them and he bore the brunt of the attack.
ieatcrayonz Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 They didn't find any marijuana there. Unless your solution is just say No for 100% of the country Nancy, it wouldn't have helped this guy. God forbid anyone not abuse themselves, their family and anyone else they some in contact with. That would be like totally uncool man and like how would anyone get like enlightened? Let's just pretend one of the root causes of tragic events like this doesn't exist and blame 100% of the outcome on one entity. We wouldn't want to take any responsibility for anything other than being like hip and cool man. We wouldn't want to grow up ever. No waaaaaaaay dude, that would be like the man getting you down.
dayman Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 All it says is: "they forced their way in." Was this a no-knock warrant? Did they "knock?" Did they identify themselves? WTF...why would a Marine w/ nothing to hide grab a gun? WTF is this? Arizona is basically the craziest state in the nation. People rail against Florida and California...even Texas...but Arizona is insane these days.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 WTF...why would a Marine w/ nothing to hide grab a gun? WTF is this? I can think of a lot reasons why he grabbed a weapon with nothing to hide. One of them is: "His castle/empire is under assault." What better reason than that!
DrDawkinstein Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) All it says is: "they forced their way in." Was this a no-knock warrant? Did they "knock?" Did they identify themselves? WTF...why would a Marine w/ nothing to hide grab a gun? WTF is this? Arizona is basically the craziest state in the nation. People rail against Florida and California...even Texas...but Arizona is insane these days. All of your questions are covered in the last 12 paragraphs starting with... Last week, for example, Storie told the Daily Star that the investigation leading up to the raids was from the start about home invasions and "drug rip-offs" -- not just marijuana distribution, as the Sheriff's Department initially indicated. Storie also says the police vehicles ran their lights and sirens until they were parked in the Guerenas' driveway, and that a police officer knocked on the door and announced himself for a full 45 seconds before the SWAT team forced its way inside. He emphasized that the raid was "in no way" a "no-knock" operation. Storie is laying groundwork for the argument that Guerena should have known that the men breaking into his home were police. That he still met them with his rifle meant he was intent on killing them, which of course would justify their rash of gunfire. For good measure, Storie added that just before they opened fire, several officers reported hearing Guerena say, "I've got something for you; I've gotten something for you guys." There are a number of problems here, beginning with the lights, the sirens, and the knocking. If these warrants were, as Storie claims, for suspected dangerous, well-armed members of a home invasion ring, why would they give a violent suspect such ample warning that they're coming? Why wouldn't the police have sought and obtained a no-knock warrant? This is precisely the scenario for which no-knock entry is warranted -- to apprehend suspected dangerous people who may present an immediate threat to police and the public.... The Police just go on to contradict themselves even more from there. Edited May 27, 2011 by DrDareustein
dayman Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Ah I see, haha....obviously I stopped reading. Interesting...to say the least.
Beerball Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Didn't want to put this on the PPP, as I am not even sure what to think...just a sad story. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C66223 I saw this several days ago and decided against posting anything about it because it was obvious that there was too much missing information. Now 4 or so days later many of the blanks have been filled in and this looks really bad. I don't know whether we'll ever know the full story, but I hope that we do.
Pilsner Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 A sad story ... What else needs to be said? Very sad indeed. But something needs to be done about it. I'm glad there are people asking questions there and many most likely will not quit until much more is revealed. This isn't something that is just let go (by honest people). Allowing this to get pushed under the rug will just let such injustices happen again. This type of thing just really sticks in my craw. Sadly, the higher ups involved might be looking for a scapegoat by now. Blaming it on marine Guerena just won't hold water the way they would like.
BuffaloBill Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Very sad indeed. But something needs to be done about it. I'm glad there are people asking questions there and many most likely will not quit until much more is revealed. This isn't something that is just let go (by honest people). Allowing this to get pushed under the rug will just let such injustices happen again. This type of thing just really sticks in my craw. Sadly, the higher ups involved might be looking for a scapegoat by now. Blaming it on marine Guerena just won't hold water the way they would like. Good points....
Kevin Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Ok, when SWAT enters a house they do so AFTER they announce very loudly that they are police, and are there to serve a search warrant. I have been in the presence of SWAT teams while they are training this, and believe me, there is no doubt who they are, and why they are there. To grab an AR-15 wasn't the right thing to do. Period. Not coming out and saying what happened and why, how...Another grave mistake. The police were doing their jobs. In the end, no one wins. Edited May 27, 2011 by Kevin
Booster4324 Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 God forbid anyone not abuse themselves, their family and anyone else they some in contact with. That would be like totally uncool man and like how would anyone get like enlightened? Let's just pretend one of the root causes of tragic events like this doesn't exist and blame 100% of the outcome on one entity. We wouldn't want to take any responsibility for anything other than being like hip and cool man. We wouldn't want to grow up ever. No waaaaaaaay dude, that would be like the man getting you down. Root cause is marijuana is illegal. Stick to the humor.
Rob's House Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Root cause is marijuana is illegal. Stick to the humor. I could be wrong, but I think this is part of the humor.
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