PromoTheRobot Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Buffalo News Maybe that Medicare thing isn't such a hot idea, eh? PTR
PastaJoe Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I think it's still too early to call, since the more conservative rural areas still need to report. But regardless, the Republicans will either have to backtrack on privatizing Medicare or face the backlash from the older voters throughout the country. I guess the Republicans should have read the Ryan plan before they gave it a blanket endorsement.
GG Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 You can win elections with hysteria, but you will not outrun the demographics math. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Obamacare get its money by gutting Medicare?
Buftex Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I think it's still too early to call, since the more conservative rural areas still need to report. But regardless, the Republicans will either have to backtrack on privatizing Medicare or face the backlash from the older voters throughout the country. I guess the Republicans should have read the Ryan plan before they gave it a blanket endorsement. Maybe they have to pass it, before they can know what is in it?
PastaJoe Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 And boom goes the dynamite! Looks like it's official. You can win elections with hysteria, but you will not outrun the demographics math. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Obamacare get its money by gutting Medicare? There's no comparison between what Obamacare does to Medicare compared to Ryancare, according to the CBO. "Seniors and the disabled would pay sharply more for their Medicare coverage under a new plan by House Republicans aimed at curbing the nation’s growing deficit, a Congressional Budget Office analysis shows. For example, by 2030, under the plan, typical 65 year olds would be required to pay 68 percent of the total cost of their coverage, which includes premiums, deductibles, and other out-of-pocket costs, according to CBO. That compares with the 25 percent they would pay under current law, CBO said. The GOP budget proposal also would raise the eligibility age for the politically popular program – and repeal big chunks of the health care overhaul law approved by Congress last year." http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2011/April/06/CBO-Seniors-Pay-More-Medicare-Ryan-Plan.aspx
GG Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Maybe they have to pass it, before they can know what is in it? I know that you're trying to make a joke that fell flat. But the two cases couldn't be more opposite. There's no ambiguity & false promises in the Ryan plan. Why did the Dems have to resort to scare tactics on a population who wouldn't be affected by the Ryan plan? Yeay progressives. Good luck finding the rich suckers who'll be willing to pay for the runaway spending in 20 years.
bbb Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Thank God the Buffalo News warned everybody that Corwin was a padding her resume by saying that she worked in the family business for 36 years or whatever. That was such a huge point and deserved to be the front page headlines that it got. Friggin hacks.
GG Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 And boom goes the dynamite! Looks like it's official. There's no comparison between what Obamacare does to Medicare compared to Ryancare, according to the CBO. "Seniors and the disabled would pay sharply more for their Medicare coverage under a new plan by House Republicans aimed at curbing the nation’s growing deficit, a Congressional Budget Office analysis shows. For example, by 2030, under the plan, typical 65 year olds would be required to pay 68 percent of the total cost of their coverage, which includes premiums, deductibles, and other out-of-pocket costs, according to CBO. That compares with the 25 percent they would pay under current law, CBO said. The GOP budget proposal also would raise the eligibility age for the politically popular program – and repeal big chunks of the health care overhaul law approved by Congress last year." http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2011/April/06/CBO-Seniors-Pay-More-Medicare-Ryan-Plan.aspx Is the CBO assessment based on real projections (which include Obamacare's 30% cut), or factored on a rainbow unicorn fart?
Buftex Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I know that you're trying to make a joke that fell flat. But the two cases couldn't be more opposite. There's no ambiguity & false promises in the Ryan plan. Why did the Dems have to resort to scare tactics on a population who wouldn't be affected by the Ryan plan? Yeay progressives. Good luck finding the rich suckers who'll be willing to pay for the runaway spending in 20 years. There is plenty to be scared of, from the almighty Ryan plan...
PastaJoe Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Is the CBO assessment based on real projections (which include Obamacare's 30% cut), or factored on a rainbow unicorn fart? Given that Obama's health reform is current law, it does factor in cuts. Like they say, you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Feel free to find a more non-partisan assessment than the CBO.
IDBillzFan Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 There is plenty to be scared of, from the almighty Ryan plan... We have our differences, but I didn't think your mind was so lazy as to believe this. But yes, let's tell everyone! The first thing you need to be afraid of with Ryan's plan is a guy who looks like Ryan pushing your wheelchair-bound grandma off a cliff to her death. Cuz that's how the liberals roll. Anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge knows what happened in NY. And Mediscare is nothing more than a progressive talking point that the media loves to advance. If special elections were an indication of anything, The Democratic Mid-Term Slaughter of 2010 would have never happened. But hey! Mediscare. Spooooky. Grandma's gonna die. Ryan's gonna kill her. Freaking lazy-minded dolts.
GG Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Given that Obama's health reform is current law, it does factor in cuts. Like they say, you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Feel free to find a more non-partisan assessment than the CBO. I take my facts from the actual CBO report, which you only pick portions of from another story. Of course individuals will pay higher premiums in the Ryan plan - maybe because that's the entire point of the Ryan plan? The CBO is also very plain in pointing this out, which you ignore: "Under the alternative fiscal scenario (Dems reduction plan), revenues would be lower and Medicare’s payments to physicians and other providers would be higher than under the extended-baseline scenario (Rainbow farting plan), but the government’s debt would skyrocket to levels unprecedented in the United States. Rising tax rates or surging federal debt might accentuate concerns about the budgetary situation and thereby lead policymakers to reduce benefits under Medicare, Medicaid, or other programs." Translation of the Above for Progressives: "If you don't implement real reform, there will be no money to pay for these benefits, so the fear mongering about dead grandparents may actually be real. But since the people enacting this legislation will be dead by 2030, who really cares?" Another missed nugget from the CBO report is that they did not account for the changes in the plans, benefits or doctors once the Rainbow fart plan is in force. Translation: as Medicare looks to cut another portion of doctor & hospital fees in name of efficiency, good doctors will stop accepting Medicare patients, leading to more dead grandparents. Yeay progressives. Now, tell me again about those facts you were talking about. Your contribution has certainly been missed on these pages.
Buftex Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) We have our differences, but I didn't think your mind was so lazy as to believe this. But yes, let's tell everyone! The first thing you need to be afraid of with Ryan's plan is a guy who looks like Ryan pushing your wheelchair-bound grandma off a cliff to her death. Cuz that's how the liberals roll. Anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge knows what happened in NY. And Mediscare is nothing more than a progressive talking point that the media loves to advance. If special elections were an indication of anything, The Democratic Mid-Term Slaughter of 2010 would have never happened. But hey! Mediscare. Spooooky. Grandma's gonna die. Ryan's gonna kill her. Freaking lazy-minded dolts. Death panels? Vouchers? I won't even dignify the stupid ad you are referring to, but to say that "liberals roll" that way only shows how blindly partisan you are, under the guise that you are not...Repulicans have never stooped that low? As for the 2010 mid-terms, it seems like, more and more, people aren't happy with what they got...perhaps what happened in WNY is a microcosm of what will happen in 2012? Republicans had their moment, and are blowing it the way I thought only Democrats could. As someone said, they are the equivalent of Jim Marshall running the wrong way with the football after the big turnover. Funny that the "Ryan Plan" has become dogma all of the sudden...wasn't Ryan the guy who was considered a "nut wing" Republican not that long ago, by his own party, not all that long ago? Now all the tough talking Republicans are backing off the Ryan plan, because they are seeing that maybe people don't want it...are you still trying to pretend that Republicans are somehow more concerned with the greater good for the country than the other party? Michelle Bachmann all of the sudden "isn't married to the Ryan plan"....Corwin is saying she isn't behind it either? How things change...I am thinking most of these dolts backed the Ryan plan, because it was easier than coming up with their own. That party is a mess...what happens when you let a few special interests shape your party. Edited May 25, 2011 by Buftex
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I know that you're trying to make a joke that fell flat. But the two cases couldn't be more opposite. There's no ambiguity & false promises in the Ryan plan. Why did the Dems have to resort to scare tactics on a population who wouldn't be affected by the Ryan plan? Yeay progressives. Good luck finding the rich suckers who'll be willing to pay for the runaway spending in 20 years.
RkFast Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Death panels? Vouchers? I won't even dignify the stupid ad you are referring to, but to say that "liberals roll" that way only shows how blindly partisan you are, under the guise that you are not...Repulicans have never stooped that low? As for the 2010 mid-terms, it seems like, more and more, people aren't happy with what they got...perhaps what happened in WNY is a microcosm of what will happen in 2012? Republicans had their moment, and are blowing it the way I thought only Democrats could. As someone said, they are the equivalent of Jim Marshall running the wrong way with the football after the big turnover. Funny that the "Ryan Plan" has become dogma all of the sudden...wasn't Ryan the guy who was considered a "nut wing" Republican not that long ago, by his own party, not all that long ago? Now all the tough talking Republicans are backing off the Ryan plan, because they are seeing that maybe people don't want it...are you still trying to pretend that Republicans are somehow more concerned with the greater good for the country than the other party? Michelle Bachmann all of the sudden "isn't married to the Ryan plan"....Corwin is saying she isn't behind it either? How things change...I am thinking most of these dolts backed the Ryan plan, because it was easier than coming up with their own. That party is a mess...what happens when you let a few special interests shape your party. Becuase there are no special interests at work with the libs.
pBills Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 We have our differences, but I didn't think your mind was so lazy as to believe this. But yes, let's tell everyone! The first thing you need to be afraid of with Ryan's plan is a guy who looks like Ryan pushing your wheelchair-bound grandma off a cliff to her death. Cuz that's how the liberals roll. Anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge knows what happened in NY. And Mediscare is nothing more than a progressive talking point that the media loves to advance. If special elections were an indication of anything, The Democratic Mid-Term Slaughter of 2010 would have never happened. But hey! Mediscare. Spooooky. Grandma's gonna die. Ryan's gonna kill her. Freaking lazy-minded dolts. Really? Come on... did you forget about Death Panels, Socialism, etc. Fact of the matter is that people do not want to hear about Seniors having to pay more through a voucher system. A system that many people are scared of.. believing that it will not work. Yet, Republicans will not raise taxes on the wealthy.
Gary M Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Yet, Republicans will not raise taxes on the wealthy. I have news for you, neither party will raise taxes on the wealthy, because they are the weathly, the only place they can get any more "income" is from businesses and the middle class. So unless they stop the spending and start making people pay more for their "benefits" we will all suffer.
GG Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Really? Come on... did you forget about Death Panels, Socialism, etc. Fact of the matter is that people do not want to hear about Seniors having to pay more through a voucher system. A system that many people are scared of.. believing that it will not work. Yet, Republicans will not raise taxes on the wealthy. Wow, pBills actually made a lucid point. Of course people don't want to hear that the free lunch is over. Imagine that. It's much more preferrable to put your hands over the ears, shout real loud and stick the head in the sand. Beacuse that's been proven conclusively to make the problems go away. Asking the rich to pay an even greater disproportionate share will not work, because at some point the rich will say FU, we're going to take an extended vacation, pile more money into munis and laugh from the sidelines. Meanwhile, a whole bunch of grandparents will die.
pBills Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I have news for you, neither party will raise taxes on the wealthy, because they are the weathly, the only place they can get any more "income" is from businesses and the middle class. So unless they stop the spending and start making people pay more for their "benefits" we will all suffer. I think both parties will have to raise taxes at some point. The belief that the country can only gain "income" from businesses and the middle-class is not flying anymore. The middle-class simply can't give much more, plus many already are paying more for benefits. When will the upper class start to pay their fair share?
GG Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I think both parties will have to raise taxes at some point. The belief that the country can only gain "income" from businesses and the middle-class is not flying anymore. The middle-class simply can't give much more, plus many already are paying more for benefits. When will the upper class start to pay their fair share? So in your view, the top 10% of earners paying 70% of income taxes isn't a fair share? Or that 1/2 of households pay no income tax?
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