john Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 guys, guys, guys! Bottom line is this: Fitz is going to light it up this season and the Bills will win every single game in which they score more points than the opposition. I promise you!!!!! The possibilities are endless!!!!!!
thewildrabbit Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 I look at teams like Atlanta and Kansas City who went after the Patriots front office personnel to better their teams, In Scott Pioli and Thomas Dimitroff. What better franchise to steal people from then one of the best teams in the NFL the last decade. I guess this Buffalo Bills owner would rather promote a man who should be retired, then that old fool hires a cast off-reject who got fired in his last job, then promotes him to a higher position. Lets continue to scrape the garbage cans over and over rather then hire top men... Shifting gears, Fitz went to Harvard where he played college ball with future doctors and lawyers, a real smart guy as he scored very high on the wonderlic, almost acing it. I have to wonder if he is agonizing at all over this upcoming season or does he love football so much that he is just grateful to be entering the season as a starter for the first time in his career? I mean I would think that someone like Jim Kelly would take one look at this Buffalo Bills offense and say FU, I'm not even going to try and play QB behind that pathetic excuse for an offensive line, you have 3 guys starting that wouldn't even make the roster of any other NFL team. No tight end...Pete, where is Pete... Pete Metzelaars, that near 7 foot tall manster, not here? Oh well, so sorry guys but my back hurts something awful, I won't be able to play.... Stating that, I gotta wonder who in their right mind would want to come play backup QB for this team, they would have to be desperate in terms of needing money or running out of chances to make it. At some point in this up coming season I will wonder as Fitz is taking brutal beatings week after week and running around like a chicken being chased by the farmers wife, a hatchet in her hand. Sitting in the whirlpool and icing his bruises, will he say to himself.... "F" THIS! I want to be able to walk when I'm 50.... I also wonder if players like Trent Edwards become jaded after awhile. They come into the league filled with hopes and dreams and then find out that they are put into an almost untenable situation on some horribly bad team, with bad coaching and bad players.How many severe concussions does to take to wake a player up to the realization that they are simply a commodity that the team must feel can easily be replaced for something better, because this team isn't making much of an effort to protect them. Then fear creeps in that they will surely become a cripple both mentally and physically early in life if they continue to take a beat down every week. To top that off they look around and the media plus most every fan in the world points the finger at them and states they are the problem.
BillsVet Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 I look at teams like Atlanta and Kansas City who went after the Patriots front office personnel to better their teams, In Scott Pioli and Thomas Dimitroff. What better franchise to steal people from then one of the best teams in the NFL the last decade. I guess this Buffalo Bills owner would rather promote a man who should be retired, then that old fool hires a cast off-reject who got fired in his last job, then promotes him to a higher position. Lets continue to scrape the garbage cans over and over rather then hire top men... I really don't think Buffalo can attract top management or proven coaching staff, which is why they've been so bad of late. Someone will mention Whaley, but in effect he moved from Pittsburgh where he wasn't going to be GM and working for Kevin Colbert to Buffalo where I'm sure he was given the inside track for the top spot. Without that assurance I doubt he leaves the Steelers. OTOH, Wannstedt seems to be living off his reputation 15+ years ago. He has a lot to prove after being out of the league so long. Whether Bills fans want to admit it or not, Buffalo has become the NFL's Siberia for down and out players and coaches. When the owner hired Levy, then followed that up with Brandon and Nix, people wrote them off because it was clear RW was more concerned with his comfortability than with actually improving. Even if he wanted to hire top people and pay big money, it's not a top organization. That's how you end up with guys like Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey for HC's.
1billsfan Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) I look at teams like Atlanta and Kansas City who went after the Patriots front office personnel to better their teams, In Scott Pioli and Thomas Dimitroff. What better franchise to steal people from then one of the best teams in the NFL the last decade. I guess this Buffalo Bills owner would rather promote a man who should be retired, then that old fool hires a cast off-reject who got fired in his last job, then promotes him to a higher position. Lets continue to scrape the garbage cans over and over rather then hire top men... Shifting gears, Fitz went to Harvard where he played college ball with future doctors and lawyers, a real smart guy as he scored very high on the wonderlic, almost acing it. I have to wonder if he is agonizing at all over this upcoming season or does he love football so much that he is just grateful to be entering the season as a starter for the first time in his career? I mean I would think that someone like Jim Kelly would take one look at this Buffalo Bills offense and say FU, I'm not even going to try and play QB behind that pathetic excuse for an offensive line, you have 3 guys starting that wouldn't even make the roster of any other NFL team. No tight end...Pete, where is Pete... Pete Metzelaars, that near 7 foot tall manster, not here? Oh well, so sorry guys but my back hurts something awful, I won't be able to play.... Stating that, I gotta wonder who in their right mind would want to come play backup QB for this team, they would have to be desperate in terms of needing money or running out of chances to make it. At some point in this up coming season I will wonder as Fitz is taking brutal beatings week after week and running around like a chicken being chased by the farmers wife, a hatchet in her hand. Sitting in the whirlpool and icing his bruises, will he say to himself.... "F" THIS! I want to be able to walk when I'm 50.... I also wonder if players like Trent Edwards become jaded after awhile. They come into the league filled with hopes and dreams and then find out that they are put into an almost untenable situation on some horribly bad team, with bad coaching and bad players. How many severe concussions does to take to wake a player up to the realization that they are simply a commodity that the team must feel can easily be replaced for something better, because this team isn't making much of an effort to protect them. Then fear creeps in that they will surely become a cripple both mentally and physically early in life if they continue to take a beat down every week. To top that off they look around and the media plus most every fan in the world points the finger at them and states they are the problem. Excuse me, but where do you get off painting Edwards as a sympathetic figure? "Put into an almost untenable situation on some horribly bad team"? Dude, Trent Edwards was the WORST PLAYER on the team!!!!! He was so so disgustingly bad that they cut his ass two games into the season!!!! But you apparently think Bills fans to feel sorry for Trent???? Not only that, but you also paint Kelly and Fitzpatrick as some sort of weak-kneed panty waists who would turn away from a challenging situation. Wow, you guys have some seriously warped opinions. I'm embarrassed for you after reading what you guys have written. Edited May 28, 2011 by 1billsfan
Rockinon Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Excuse me, but where do you get off painting Edwards as a sympathetic figure? "Put into an almost untenable situation on some horribly bad team"? Dude, Trent Edwards was the WORST PLAYER on the team!!!!! He was so so disgustingly bad that they cut his ass two games into the season!!!! But you apparently think Bills fans to feel sorry for Trent???? Not only that, but you also paint Kelly and Fitzpatrick as some sort of weak-kneed panty waists who would turn away from a challenging situation. Wow, you guys have some seriously warped opinions. I'm embarrassed for you after reading what you guys have written. This. Apparently their shrink hasn't told them that they have an inferiority complex yet. Friggin' sissies.
Orton's Arm Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Well that's your problem right there. I'd advise you to concentrate more on the touchdown pass stat when evaluating quarterbacks. That way you'll have a lower probability of making foolish statements like your comparison of Fitzpatrick to Edwards. Fitzpatrick is a hundred times better than Edwards. Edwards couldn't find the flippin' endzone if Dakota Fanning was doing cartwheels in it. You seem to have started with a conclusion (that Fitz is a significantly better QB than Edwards) and then have cherry-picked the one stat (TD passes) which you felt would best support that conclusion. In contrast, I've found that when evaluating QBs throughout the league, both past and present, yards per attempt seems to be a significantly better evaluation tool than QB rating, let alone (of all things) TD passes! Yards per attempt is to QBs as yards per carry is to running backs. TD passes are to QBs as TD runs are to RBs. Almost everyone feels that yards per carry is a much better indicator of a RB's success than the number of TD runs. The same logic applies to QBs and yards per attempt. As I wrote earlier, a QB needs to have a yards per attempt of 7.2 to be even discussed as a franchise QB. Edwards' career average is 6.5, correctly indicating he's a long way away from being a borderline franchise QB. You could make the argument that the other problem with Edwards was being too cautious, especially in the red zone, with a consequent lack of TD passes. I'll grant that Fitz is a better QB than Edwards in that respect. I'll also grant that Fitz's style of play helps the running game, by punishing defenses for crowding the box. (By always going short, Edwards rewarded defenses for crowding the box.) But their relatively pedestrian yards per attempt stats disqualify either Fitz or Edwards from being the long-term answer at QB!
Rockinon Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 You seem to have started with a conclusion (that Fitz is a significantly better QB than Edwards) and then have cherry-picked the one stat (TD passes) which you felt would best support that conclusion. In contrast, I've found that when evaluating QBs throughout the league, both past and present, yards per attempt seems to be a significantly better evaluation tool than QB rating, let alone (of all things) TD passes! Yards per attempt is to QBs as yards per carry is to running backs. TD passes are to QBs as TD runs are to RBs. Almost everyone feels that yards per carry is a much better indicator of a RB's success than the number of TD runs. The same logic applies to QBs and yards per attempt. As I wrote earlier, a QB needs to have a yards per attempt of 7.2 to be even discussed as a franchise QB. Edwards' career average is 6.5, correctly indicating he's a long way away from being a borderline franchise QB. You could make the argument that the other problem with Edwards was being too cautious, especially in the red zone, with a consequent lack of TD passes. I'll grant that Fitz is a better QB than Edwards in that respect. I'll also grant that Fitz's style of play helps the running game, by punishing defenses for crowding the box. (By always going short, Edwards rewarded defenses for crowding the box.) But their relatively pedestrian yards per attempt stats disqualify either Fitz or Edwards from being the long-term answer at QB! What is an offense's job? To score points, right? What is a QB's job? To score points, right? Hello. Throwing touchdown passes is only the most relevant stat for a QB.
Orton's Arm Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 What is an offense's job? To score points, right? What is a QB's job? To score points, right? Hello. Throwing touchdown passes is only the most relevant stat for a QB. Let's say the defense creates a lot of turnovers, and often puts the offense within 10 yards of the endzone. Do you think that will affect the number of TD passes the QB will throw? What if, because of bad defense + special teams play, the offense usually has to drive 80 - 90 yards to put the ball in the endzone. How will that affect a QB's number of TD passes? And what happens when one offensive coordinator gets really aggressive inside the 20--and calls a lot of passing plays--versus another who more cautiously calls a lot of running plays? How will those things affect a QB's number of touchdown passes? If a QB drives the offense down to the one yard line, and then a RB punches it into the endzone from there, is that a lesser accomplishment on the QB's part than if most of the drive's yardage had come from running plays, but with a short TD pass at the end?
thewildrabbit Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Excuse me, but where do you get off painting Edwards as a sympathetic figure? "Put into an almost untenable situation on some horribly bad team"? Dude, Trent Edwards was the WORST PLAYER on the team!!!!! He so so disgustingly bad that they cut his ass two games into the season!!!! But you apparently think Bills fans to feel sorry for Trent???? Not only that, but you also paint Kelly and Fitzpatrick as some sort of weak-kneed panty waists who would turn away from a challenging situation. Wow, you guys have some seriously warped opinions. I'm embarrassed for you after reading what you guys have written. Jeez, I didn't realize I would so profoundly affront your righteous hatred for Trent Edwards..... the guy is gone from Buffalo, deal with it. Nobody is asking you to feel empathy for any of the QB's that NFL teams draft and then turn into badly shell shocked players like Carr and Harrington...Edwards and Losman. The entire point was to get the reader to think about what it must be like for a new young player to have his dreams shattered because some crap team drafted him instead of a good team. You know, put yourself in their place... that is, if you can.
Rockinon Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Let's say the defense creates a lot of turnovers, and often puts the offense within 10 yards of the endzone. Do you think that will affect the number of TD passes the QB will throw? What if, because of bad defense + special teams play, the offense usually has to drive 80 - 90 yards to put the ball in the endzone. How will that affect a QB's number of TD passes? And what happens when one offensive coordinator gets really aggressive inside the 20--and calls a lot of passing plays--versus another who more cautiously calls a lot of running plays? How will those things affect a QB's number of touchdown passes? If a QB drives the offense down to the one yard line, and then a RB punches it into the endzone from there, is that a lesser accomplishment on the QB's part than if most of the drive's yardage had come from running plays, but with a short TD pass at the end? Oh come on. Just how is that a factor with our horrible defense last year? If anything, the fact that Fitz was still able to score so many TD passes only makes his success even more remarkable.
thewildrabbit Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 You guys sure are having fun! Just venting.... more then a decade of watching your favorite NFL team make stupid boneheaded decisions at every turn leads to lots of frustration. Looking at this team from a 90's perspective, I never would have thought that in my wildest dreams would this same owner allow another decade of the 70's to repeat itself, only this time it is with the Patriots and Bill Belichick instead of Don Shula and the Dolphins.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 You guys sure are having fun! Just venting.... more then a decade of watching your favorite NFL team make stupid boneheaded decisions at every turn leads to lots of frustration. Looking at this team from a 90's perspective, I never would have thought that in my wildest dreams would this same owner allow another decade of the 70's to repeat itself, only this time it is with the Patriots and Bill Belichick instead of Don Shula and the Dolphins. Yeah, I've been following the Bills since 1968… but unlike you, I like the people they've entrusted the organization to and think they are putting together a good football team.
Rockinon Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 I think I'm just going to post this every time I see people trash talking Fitz. Fitzpatrick is Bills' QB, get used to it. :devil: :nana: :lol:
Orton's Arm Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Oh come on. Just how is that a factor with our horrible defense last year? If anything, the fact that Fitz was still able to score so many TD passes only makes his success even more remarkable. John Elway threw for 300 TDs in 7250 attempts, for a TD percentage of 4.1%. Kelly Holcomb threw for 39 TDs in 893 attempts, for a TD percentage of 4.4%. Does that mean that Holcomb was a slightly better quarterback than John Elway? Elway's career QB rating is 79.9, whereas Holcomb's is 79.2. Not a huge difference. A person who used either TD percentage or QB ratings as his primary evaluation tool would conclude that John Elway and Kelly Holcomb were about equally good! But now let's look at yards per attempt. Holcomb averaged 6.6 yards per attempt over the course of his career, which puts him in the category of "decent, not great, starter." Elway averaged 7.1 yards per attempt over the course of his career, giving him a commanding advantage over Holcomb. Which is exactly as it should be! I'll grant that I set 7.2 yards per attempt as the lower limit for what a QB needed to achieve to be considered franchise. But that's for current era QBs. Elway played in a different era with less passing-friendly rules, and his supporting cast wasn't exactly the best that's ever been seen. He was clearly a franchise QB, even if he didn't get that last 0.1 yard per attempt! Edited May 28, 2011 by Edwards' Arm
thewildrabbit Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Yeah, I've been following the Bills since 1968… but unlike you, I like the people they've entrusted the organization to and think they are putting together a good football team. In your view exactly what has this GM-HC done so far to elicit such confidence?
Rockinon Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 John Elway threw for 300 TDs in 7250 attempts, for a TD percentage of 4.1%. Kelly Holcomb threw for 39 TDs in 893 attempts, for a TD percentage of 4.4%. Does that mean that Holcomb was a slightly better quarterback than John Elway? Elway's career QB rating is 79.9, whereas Holcomb's is 79.2. Not a huge difference. A person who used either TD percentage or QB ratings as his primary evaluation tool would conclude that John Elway and Kelly Holcomb were about equally good! But now let's look at yards per attempt. Holcomb averaged 6.6 yards per attempt over the course of his career, which puts him in the category of "decent, not great, starter." Elway averaged 7.1 yards per attempt over the course of his career, giving him a commanding advantage over Holcomb. Which is exactly as it should be! I'll grant that I set 7.2 yards per attempt as the lower limit for what a QB needed to achieve to be considered franchise. But that's for current era QBs. Elway played in a different era with less passing-friendly rules, and his supporting cast wasn't exactly the best that's ever been seen. He was clearly a franchise QB, even if he didn't get that last 0.1 yard per attempt! I just don't understand your infatuation with all of these ridiculous stats. Chan Galey, Buddy Nix, Lee Evans, Steve Johnson and even a number of the offensive linemen have all expressed their faith in Fitz(I'll even find their quotes and post them if you like). I am certain I could come up with more names. Yet with all of this support, you still want to throw meaningless stats in the face of obvious progress. If you cannot see the improvement since Fitz took the reigns you are just plain blind. Add to that the effort to fix the defensive shortcomings of arguably the worst defense in the entire league, and you have the very real possibility of even more improvement by Fitz. Things are looking very good for this team but you are determined to undermine the faith that people have in a QB on the rise before he even gets a chance to step on the field again. Fitz is the Bills' QB. Get used to it!
paintmyhouse Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Oh come on. Just how is that a factor with our horrible defense last year? If anything, the fact that Fitz was still able to score so many TD passes only makes his success even more remarkable. Only in fantasy football. You can't really be serious. Wins and losses are the primary stat for the most part, and second is 4th quarter drives for wins. That is why John Elway was one of he best ever. Edited May 28, 2011 by paintmyhouse
Orton's Arm Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 I just don't understand your infatuation with all of these ridiculous stats. Chan Galey, Buddy Nix, Lee Evans, Steve Johnson and even a number of the offensive linemen have all expressed their faith in Fitz(I'll even find their quotes and post them if you like). I am certain I could come up with more names. Yet with all of this support, you still want to throw meaningless stats in the face of obvious progress. If you cannot see the improvement since Fitz took the reigns you are just plain blind. Add to that the effort to fix the defensive shortcomings of arguably the worst defense in the entire league, and you have the very real possibility of even more improvement by Fitz. Things are looking very good for this team but you are determined to undermine the faith that people have in a QB on the rise before he even gets a chance to step on the field again. Fitz is the Bills' QB. Get used to it! In the past, Lee Evans expressed faith in JP Losman. I also remember having seen at least one player say that having Trent Edwards on the field gave him a lot of confidence that the Bills could win. Going into last season, Gailey even chose Edwards over Fitz as the starting QB. Just because you hear expressions of support for a QB does not mean he's the long-term answer. The relevant question is not whether Fitz is or isn't an upgrade over Edwards. (Any more than the relevant question a year ago was whether Edwards was an upgrade over Losman.) The question we should be asking is, "Does Fitz look the way a franchise QB is supposed to look?" In some ways the answer is yes. But Fitz does not have the consistent accuracy you have to have from any long-term answer at QB. The yards per attempt stat is not "ridiculous," as you put it. I defy you to show me either a) a franchise QB from any era since the merger who's failed to put up a solid yards per attempt stat, or b) a QB with a long career and a very solid yards per attempt stat who was clearly nowhere near being a franchise QB. I strongly doubt you're going to find either one of those players, no matter how hard you look. The yards per attempt stat really is that important. In Fitz's case, his so-so yards per attempt stat indicate a QB who struggles with accuracy, despite the many other things he does well.
Rockinon Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Only in fantasy football. You can't really be serious. Wins and losses are the primary stat for the most part, and second is 4th quarter drives for wins. That is why John Elway was one of he best ever. Let me see. The winner is determined by what? Who scores the most points. And what in the hell does Elway have to do with a discussion concerning Fitz? Nothing
Recommended Posts