This is Fitz's Team

[Bill from NYC]

But you know me, I won't be happy until I see that O line built up properly and a top TE acquired. It still bothers me that both this GM and HC didn't even try and build that line up first thing. I just don't see this team controlling the LoS on offense when the game is on the line.

 

I have said the above for well over a decade. However, because Nix/Gailey DID devote so much in terms of draft resources to the defensive front, I am reluctantly giving them another year.

 

The posters on this board know more about the Bills than do most in the national media. That said, I think that very few understand just how much damage was inflicted by Levy/Jauron. The list of excellent blockers that these guys passed on to select the likes of Whitner, McKelvin, Lynch, Maybin, Simpson, Byrd, Youboty, etc. is staggering.

 

As for our existing OL, Wood is the most overrated player on this team as of now. Second would be Bell. Ask yourself what they would be worth in a trade. They have been injured and MIGHT improve, but this is no way to enter the season. And this is not to mention the dismal right side.

 

Seattle addressed their OL in the last 2 seasons. Soon they will be a strong team, or so it would appear. Again, we strengthened our defensive front and this is a good thing, but there are no more excuses for Nix/Gailey neglecting our OL, especially at the OT position.

[john]

Can anyone come up with a list of the best available o.lineman in free agency? Not like Buffalo will be able to land anyone worth a crap but I'd still like to know who's out there.

[thewildrabbit]

Please get off the Te position people, unless you want a new coach. Chan Gailey is not going to change his offense even if he had Kellen Winslow reincarnated.

Passing league my but, from that I mean look at some of the more dominate teams in the NFL, most usually have a very good running game to balance the offense and give their young QB's more opportunities to develop properly , Ravens-Jets-Falcons ETC.

 

This HC trying to run a spread / pistol offense with the current players on the roster is almost moronic as trying to run the 3-4 last year. Unless you have a Peyton Manning-Tom Brady it makes more sense build a dominate running attack with play action to help keep the opposing defense guessing and help take pressure off the QB. This is probably the sole reason Gaileys 08 KC's pistol offense made the QB look decent, but failed to win many games. My take is he had the exact same effect last year in making the QB look good but that alone doesn't win games. Looking at no changes made to the starters on offense leads me to think he will try and repeat exactly what he did last season, If he does he might not be the HC in 2011. Both Nix and gailey are both taking a huge gamble that Fitz and Jackson can stay healthy all year

 

 

 

 

I know you hold the same type of hate for Fitz that many here hold for Losman & Edwards. I know I couldn't stand the guy previous to last year and when I looked at his history with the Rams and Bengals he did suck and I thought he should be just a back up.

 

But then he started to play and as I watched Fitz in that Jets game I kept thinking wow this team sucks, this guy is gonna get killed and its gonna be a long season. But Fitz kept eluding the Jets pass rush, kept going into the huddle and kept trying to win, Fitz showed he wasn't a deer in headlights that Edwards and Losman were, the man showed guts, grit and determination.

 

0-5 at the bye, isn't that when RW gave his PP speech, Pain & patience about this same time Nix went from his famous "this team is not that far away" line to "this will take some time"

 

But then week 7 at the Ravens 34-37 OT loss. Lewis strips the ball from the TE Nelson and Ravens kick a FG to win.... 34 points against that Ravens D, really? Fitz 29-43 382 yds 4 TD's really? I started to rethink my outlook on Fitz.

 

Week 11at Bengals 49-31 at Cincy really ? 21-34 316 yds 4 TD's really?

 

Week 12 at home Steeler's 19-16 in OT, and Johnson drops a TD pass in the end zone that would have won the game, really? against that 3-4 Steeler defense Fitz 23-45 265 1 TD Fred Jackson the leading receiver.

 

At 4-12 the Bills stunk it up, but Fitz did shows flashes that he could further develop into a top QB. He had played against the Ravens-Steelers-Browns while he was the back up QB with Cincy and showed he had learned how to beat their defenses. Lets hope he will quickly learn how to beat the Patriots-Jets-Dolphins. The guy has a very quick release, can find the open receiver in 3 seconds, plus has an uncanny ability to escape the pass rush very much like Mick Vick did last year with a 6.7 YPA rush, same as Vick.

 

I look around the league and see that Fitz grades to be in the top 15 as a starter, pretty darn good for a guy who used to be a back up QB that nobody wanted.The man won me over with his play last year, if you wanna keep hating him sok with me. Just know that this QB showed last year he is better then anything the Buffalo Bills have had at that position for quite awhile.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Harvey lives

[paintmyhouse]

Passing league my but, from that I mean look at some of the more dominate teams in the NFL, most usually have a very good running game to balance the offense and give their young QB's more opportunities to develop properly , Ravens-Jets-Falcons ETC.

 

This HC trying to run a spread / pistol offense with the current players on the roster is almost moronic as trying to run the 3-4 last year. Unless you have a Peyton Manning-Tom Brady it makes more sense build a dominate running attack with play action to help keep the opposing defense guessing and help take pressure off the QB. This is probably the sole reason Gaileys 08 KC's pistol offense made the QB look decent, but failed to win many games. My take is he had the exact same effect last year in making the QB look good but that alone doesn't win games. Looking at no changes made to the starters on offense leads me to think he will try and repeat exactly what he did last season, If he does he might not be the HC in 2011. Both Nix and gailey are both taking a huge gamble that Fitz and Jackson can stay healthy all year

 

 

 

 

I know you hold the same type of hate for Fitz that many here hold for Losman & Edwards. I know I couldn't stand the guy previous to last year and when I looked at his history with the Rams and Bengals he did suck and I thought he should be just a back up.

 

But then he started to play and as I watched Fitz in that Jets game I kept thinking wow this team sucks, this guy is gonna get killed and its gonna be a long season. But Fitz kept eluding the Jets pass rush, kept going into the huddle and kept trying to win, Fitz showed he wasn't a deer in headlights that Edwards and Losman were, the man showed guts, grit and determination.

 

0-5 at the bye, isn't that when RW gave his PP speech, Pain & patience about this same time Nix went from his famous "this team is not that far away" line to "this will take some time"

 

But then week 7 at the Ravens 34-37 OT loss. Lewis strips the ball from the TE Nelson and Ravens kick a FG to win.... 34 points against that Ravens D, really? Fitz 29-43 382 yds 4 TD's really? I started to rethink my outlook on Fitz.

 

Week 11at Bengals 49-31 at Cincy really ? 21-34 316 yds 4 TD's really?

 

Week 12 at home Steeler's 19-16 in OT, and Johnson drops a TD pass in the end zone that would have won the game, really? against that 3-4 Steeler defense Fitz 23-45 265 1 TD Fred Jackson the leading receiver.

 

At 4-12 the Bills stunk it up, but Fitz did shows flashes that he could further develop into a top QB. He had played against the Ravens-Steelers-Browns while he was the back up QB with Cincy and showed he had learned how to beat their defenses. Lets hope he will quickly learn how to beat the Patriots-Jets-Dolphins. The guy has a very quick release, can find the open receiver in 3 seconds, plus has an uncanny ability to escape the pass rush very much like Mick Vick did last year with a 6.7 YPA rush, same as Vick.

 

I look around the league and see that Fitz grades to be in the top 15 as a starter, pretty darn good for a guy who used to be a back up QB that nobody wanted.The man won me over with his play last year, if you wanna keep hating him sok with me. Just know that this QB showed last year he is better then anything the Buffalo Bills have had at that position for quite awhile.

 

Fitz was the primary QB on the worst team the Bills have had since 2001, this was the 9th worst record in franchise history, the Bills only had less wins 7 times, Fitz was horrible. How can you give Fitz credit in those games and not criticize him for how truly terrible he was in the last 5 starts. Bills averaged 12 points a game, and I don't want to hear any crap about the WRs were hurt. If you want to say that then you need to take away the big game against the Ravens. They had 3 CBs hurt, and cut one of the guys that started the game after. Besides stinking just as bad as Buffalo, the Bengals had both CBs, starting safety and nickel corner not play the 2nd half, yet people want to give Fitz all the credit for when the opposition was hurt and give him a free pass when he was worse than pathetic because Bills WRs were hurt. Makes no sense. He was one of worst rate starting QBs last year, bottom 3 in the NFL, and is clearly the worst returning starter in the NFL with no competition. Those are facts. I don't hate Fitz at all, I met him before, he is a nice guy, just better suited to be a backup, and nowhere near starting material for a winner.

Edited May 31, 2011 by paintmyhouse

[John from Riverside]

x

Yea well, that Bills O line makes me want to puke...if you even have to ask who the 3 are that suck ... then I'm not the fool.

 

Everyone is so freaking fixated on the QB that they are all over looking more pressing issues in the fact that Buffalo hasn't had a solid O line since the Jim Kelly era. That fact alone is probably the biggest reason as to why this team has had no luck with QB's since Jim Kelly. Doesn't it bother anyone else that every three or so years this team chews up another QB and then fans want to bring in another, then they all point their fingers at the QB and say he is the problem

 

Good GM's and head coaches build the lines up the very first thing, levy tried to do that with free agency as GM and instead he should have done it thru the draft.

 

Its not stupid to call it like I see it, its my opinion...there are 3 players that will start on that O line that have no business as starters.... 2 of them are cast off scrubs from other teams, that's pathetic .

 

There will be a free agency at some point this year, but what has that got to do with the fact that this team simply hasn't been able to find one single player worth a damn as a TE for the last 10+ years, this problem just seems to get worse every year. A great TE can help the running game immensely, they also help the offense in first downs and are a huge target in the end zone for scoring. Jeez, all anyone need do is look at the Cowboys, Colts, Chargers, Patriots et al. Its like the position doesn't even exist on this team anymore, its almost the same with the fullback position.

Is it any wonder why this team can't run the ball very effectively and help take pressure off the QB

 

If I triggered an emotional response because of what I wrote, then good. If it gets people looking at the players on that O line instead of pointing fingers at the QB all the time, even better If it gets others thinking and asking why hasn't this team had a decent TE in ten years, then excellent

 

My emotional response is to constant overstating trying to prove a point.....

 

- Offensive line isnt the best in the league? Get no argument from me but you said THREE OL THAT WOULDNT BE ON ANOTHER TEAMS ROSTER. Why the need to go there with a statement like that?

 

- Its almost as if some people think we dont even bother to draft and just go out looking for big uglies who dont play football....this is not the case. The bills ARE DRAFTING for the trenches in recent years......and two of those picks are Wood and Levitre.

[thewildrabbit]

My emotional response is to constant overstating trying to prove a point.....

 

- Offensive line isnt the best in the league? Get no argument from me but you said THREE OL THAT WOULDNT BE ON ANOTHER TEAMS ROSTER. Why the need to go there with a statement like that?

 

- Its almost as if some people think we dont even bother to draft and just go out looking for big uglies who dont play football....this is not the case. The bills ARE DRAFTING for the trenches in recent years......and two of those picks are Wood and Levitre.

Its my opinion, I'm entitled. Just like paintmyhouse is entitled to his opinion about Fitz.

 

I now have some man love for Fitz after watching the guy play on that PoS offense week after week, and IDC what others say, I know what I saw last year. The fact that the GM-HC didn't draft a QB, plus the HC states that he can win with Fitz backs up my thoughts. Fitz could have easily given up last year, he didn't.

 

OTOH I have very little love for that O line, RT was a revolving door last year and the LT was just about as bad as all the RT's were. Wood and Levitre are about the only 2 that should start, the rest should be back ups or not even on the team.

""The offensive line gets man-handled. . They get no push off the line, the footwork wasn't there, and they were missing assignments. On the right side, (fill in the blank) ****** gets pushed around all day. The line as a whole didn't seem in sync and wasn't giving the running game holes or sealing off any lanes. …""

 

Dick Jauron drafted Wood & Levitre, exactly what has kept Gailey & Nix from drafting for the O line for 2 drafts? particularly since they both stated it was a "priority" before 2010 draft . I would have thought that bringing in an offensive mined coach, that the O line would have improved, it didn't... It got worse... something I didn't think could be possible after that horrid 2009 line. The running game got worse, the YPC agv got worse. This is the reason I complain

[Bill from NYC]

The bills ARE DRAFTING for the trenches in recent years......and two of those picks are Wood and Levitre.

 

Great John. The cost of this was losing a very good left tackle and plugging in a sub-par Bell. Since then, what have they devoted to the OT position?

We can pretend that Bell has played well but he has not. Maybe he will; I don't know. But at this point he has proven only that he is a small, weak OT.

As I said, it's a great thing that they devoted resources to the defensive front. I am thrilled by this, but as we speak, they still have a weak offensive line, as they have for 15 or so years.

[John from Riverside]

Great John. The cost of this was losing a very good left tackle and plugging in a sub-par Bell. Since then, what have they devoted to the OT position?

We can pretend that Bell has played well but he has not. Maybe he will; I don't know. But at this point he has proven only that he is a small, weak OT.

As I said, it's a great thing that they devoted resources to the defensive front. I am thrilled by this, but as we speak, they still have a weak offensive line, as they have for 15 or so years.

 

Im sorry how many draft picks did we have this past year? For all the people complaining that we arent draft franchise left tackles (and keep in mind that they dont grow on trees...I am not positive there even WAS a franchise left tackle in this past draft) So what did they do.....defense was horrid....they addressed defense NOBODY CAN BLAME THEM FOR THAT

 

D. Bell wasnt even healthy the majority of the year last year......I hear all this ragging on D. Bell.....if he is giving up sacks this next year then my opinion might change but the fact is HE SHUT DOWN SOME VERY GOOD PASS RUSHERS THIS PAST YEAR......

 

By the way Harvey....by all means its your opinion and stick to it........

[Beerball]

Wawrow on Fitz the leader

[thewildrabbit]

Can anyone come up with a list of the best available o.lineman in free agency? Not like Buffalo will be able to land anyone worth a crap but I'd still like to know who's out there.

 

http://profootball.s...=83&rc=16&pid=3

 

ya gotta figure if any of these players are worth a darn their teams will do everything they can to resign them

[GaryPinC]

""The offensive line gets man-handled. . They get no push off the line, the footwork wasn't there, and they were missing assignments. On the right side, (fill in the blank) ****** gets pushed around all day. The line as a whole didn't seem in sync and wasn't giving the running game holes or sealing off any lanes. …""

 

 

bad footwork, not being in sync, no push as a unit. Is this because there's not enough talent on the line or simply because they're not understanding the playcalls, not on the same page and thus making all kinds of mistakes? This is a very young line that hasn't played together much and they had a new offensive system and terminology on top of it all last year. There were lots of mistakes but that doesn't mean there's not enough talent there.

 

I don't know why many posters ignore the fact that when a new coaching staff comes in, the terminology and system changes take around half a season for the offense to adjust to. If it's a solid, veteran offensive line they'll pick it up in the first few games, younger lines may take the entire year depending on how much the coaches simplify the playbook.

 

I remember specific plays last year where Bell turned to protect to his inside and the defender outside of him blew right by. Posters on here were blasting him a new one ignoring the fact that he wasn't even trying to block the guy that got by him.

 

I too long for even a decent O-line and respect your opinions on this but when I consider all the above factors I can't condemn them the way you do. Our coaches/GM also think there's an upside so we'll (hopefully) see this year.

[Orton's Arm]

Im sorry how many draft picks did we have this past year? For all the people complaining that we arent draft franchise left tackles (and keep in mind that they dont grow on trees...I am not positive there even WAS a franchise left tackle in this past draft) So what did they do.....defense was horrid....they addressed defense NOBODY CAN BLAME THEM FOR THAT

 

D. Bell wasnt even healthy the majority of the year last year......I hear all this ragging on D. Bell.....if he is giving up sacks this next year then my opinion might change but the fact is HE SHUT DOWN SOME VERY GOOD PASS RUSHERS THIS PAST YEAR......

 

By the way Harvey....by all means its your opinion and stick to it........

At least initially, the Bills appear to have done a very solid job with the 2011 draft. I'm certainly not going to complain about it, at any rate.

 

But it's also worth being aware of a larger pattern. During the last 50 years, the Bills have used their first pick in the draft on a RB ten different times. (Including nine first rounders.) They've used their first pick of the draft on a DB ten different times (all ten of which were first rounders). Not once have they used their first pick of the draft on a QB. Only twice have they used their first pick of the draft on an OT. It's been ten years since the Bills last used a first, second, or third round pick on an OT. (And we all know how Mike Williams worked out.)

 

After years or decades of watching the Bills neglect the OL on draft day, and after years or decades of watching the Bills field mostly inept OLs (with the Polian Bills being a rare exception), there are those here who need to see concrete proof that the Bills' front office is committed to building the OL. This is not a complaint about the Bills' 2011 draft. It is a statement that, if the Bills' OL fails to significantly improve in 2011, I at least would hope to see significant draft day resources devoted to it come 2012. If Bell is not the answer at LT, then only a franchise QB should be assigned a higher draft day priority than finding someone who is.

[Bill from NYC]

At least initially, the Bills appear to have done a very solid job with the 2011 draft. I'm certainly not going to complain about it, at any rate.

 

But it's also worth being aware of a larger pattern. During the last 50 years, the Bills have used their first pick in the draft on a RB ten different times. (Including nine first rounders.) They've used their first pick of the draft on a DB ten different times (all ten of which were first rounders). Not once have they used their first pick of the draft on a QB. Only twice have they used their first pick of the draft on an OT. It's been ten years since the Bills last used a first, second, or third round pick on an OT. (And we all know how Mike Williams worked out.)

 

After years or decades of watching the Bills neglect the OL on draft day, and after years or decades of watching the Bills field mostly inept OLs (with the Polian Bills being a rare exception), there are those here who need to see concrete proof that the Bills' front office is committed to building the OL. This is not a complaint about the Bills' 2011 draft. It is a statement that, if the Bills' OL fails to significantly improve in 2011, I at least would hope to see significant draft day resources devoted to it come 2012. If Bell is not the answer at LT, then only a franchise QB should be assigned a higher draft day priority than finding someone who is.

 

Every word above is true, but people really don't want to hear this. Most fans prefer "exciting" players such as CJ Spiller but again, at least we have a chance at having a good defensive front this season.

[Jauronimo]

At least initially, the Bills appear to have done a very solid job with the 2011 draft. I'm certainly not going to complain about it, at any rate.

 

But it's also worth being aware of a larger pattern. During the last 50 years, the Bills have used their first pick in the draft on a RB ten different times. (Including nine first rounders.) They've used their first pick of the draft on a DB ten different times (all ten of which were first rounders). Not once have they used their first pick of the draft on a QB. Only twice have they used their first pick of the draft on an OT. It's been ten years since the Bills last used a first, second, or third round pick on an OT. (And we all know how Mike Williams worked out.)

 

After years or decades of watching the Bills neglect the OL on draft day, and after years or decades of watching the Bills field mostly inept OLs (with the Polian Bills being a rare exception), there are those here who need to see concrete proof that the Bills' front office is committed to building the OL. This is not a complaint about the Bills' 2011 draft. It is a statement that, if the Bills' OL fails to significantly improve in 2011, I at least would hope to see significant draft day resources devoted to it come 2012. If Bell is not the answer at LT, then only a franchise QB should be assigned a higher draft day priority than finding someone who is.

 

Isn't Polian pretty vocal on the subject of drafting OL in rounds 3, 4 and 5? During the Polian era, excluding 2011 where the Colts admittedly used their 1st and 2nd round picks on OL (but isn't his son Chris pretty much running the show now anyway?), the Colts selected two OL higher than the 3rd round. In that same time period they selected 6 DBs in the first two rounds and 2 first round running backs.

 

There's definitely mixed views on how to get the most value out of the draft. Polian liked to stock his line in the middle rounds and with undrafted free agents. Ozzie in Baltimore has built strong teams using a few high picks on the OL.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Jauronimo

[thewildrabbit]

Isn't Polian pretty vocal on the subject of drafting OL in rounds 3, 4 and 5? During the Polian era, excluding 2011 where the Colts admittedly used their 1st and 2nd round picks on OL (but isn't his son Chris pretty much running the show now anyway?), the Colts selected two OL higher than the 3rd round. In that same time period they selected 6 DBs in the first two rounds and 2 first round running backs.

 

There's definitely mixed views on how to get the most value out of the draft. Polian liked to stock his line in the middle rounds and with undrafted free agents. Ozzie in Baltimore has built strong teams using a few high picks on the OL.

Will Wolford ring any bells? The Colts used a #1 pick this year on the O line, as did the Packers, the Bears, the Cowboys, the Dolphins, The Eagles, The Patriots, The Seahawks.

 

 

 

I suppose there wasn't any decent O linemen in the first 3 rounds that Buffalo wanted the last two drafts....

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Isn't Polian pretty vocal on the subject of drafting OL in rounds 3, 4 and 5? During the Polian era, excluding 2011 where the Colts admittedly used their 1st and 2nd round picks on OL (but isn't his son Chris pretty much running the show now anyway?), the Colts selected two OL higher than the 3rd round. In that same time period they selected 6 DBs in the first two rounds and 2 first round running backs.

 

There's definitely mixed views on how to get the most value out of the draft. Polian liked to stock his line in the middle rounds and with undrafted free agents. Ozzie in Baltimore has built strong teams using a few high picks on the OL.

To add to what Jauronimo is saying, the New York Giants for several years had the best offensive line in football. The last two years they've aged and gotten somewhat less effective but during their 2007 Super Bowl season and a few seasons on either side of 2007, they were widely considered the best offensive line in the NFL.

 

Starting LT David Diehl was a 5th round pick. LG Rich Seubert and C Shaun O'Hara were undrafted. RG Chris Snee was a 2nd rounder and RT Kareem McKenzie was a 3rd rounder.

 

Not exactly investing heavily in the offensive line.

 

The infamous Hogs O-line of the early 80s consisted of LT George Starke, an 11th rounder, LG Russ Grimm, a 3rd rounder, C Jeff Bostic who was undrafted, RG Mark May, a 1st rounder, and RT Joe Jacoby who was also undrafted. They were the best offensive line of the first half of the 1980s.

 

The offensive line on the most recent Super Bowl edition of the Cheatriots* consisted of LT Matt Light, a 2nd rounder, LG JoeAndruzzi, who was undrafted, C Dan Koppen, a 5th rounder, RG Russ Hochstein, a 5th rounder, and RT Tom Ashworth, who was undrafted.

 

That's 1 first rounder and 2 second rounders, and 1 third rounder for a total of 4 players taken in the first three rounds. Those same lines featured 6 undrafted starters.

 

I could go on and on. In recent memory there have been many excellent offensive lines which consisted of mid-round picks and undrafted free agents.

 

The Bills have had numerous outstanding O-linemen without any pedigree. Kent Hull was undrafted. John Davis was an 11th rounder. Tim Vogler was a undrafted. House Ballard was an 11th rounder, Donnie Green was a 5th rounder.

 

O-line is one of the hardest positions to scout for and also one of the positional groups where guys who are tough and smart and are well-coached can develop into good players and an even better unit.

 

The Bills have invested a fair amount of resources at offensive line. The group is very young. They'll be entering just their 2nd season in the same system.

 

I for one am perfectly fine with the fact that the Bills didn't overreach in the last two drafts for O-line. They had zero chances of drafting an elite tackle in either draft when their pick came up. They drafted Wood and Levitre with high picks. Urbik and Rinehart are very young and were highly-touted players coming out of college. Pears was a 2-year starter for Denver and is still young. Hairston was a great value and has excellent raw skills. Throw in Hangartner, Wrotto, etc. and I think this O-line has a good deal of promise.

 

And I think the fact that some posters need to see the Bills burn high picks on O-linemen to make themselves feel better about our O-line prospects is oversimplifying things a bit.

 

At this point, it really comes down to whether you trust those people in charge or not. If you don't, then what difference does it make if they burn high picks on O-linemen?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fansince88]

This team responded by only scoring over 19 points just 4 times. Hilarious. THey also responded by scoring 12 points a game his last 5 starts. He got a lot worse as the season went on, or maybe his team just responded less then? Either way he really showed he was a bad QB is what he did.

What everybody is trying to say is.....paint your own house

[thewildrabbit]

If you look back at the history of the buffalo Bills, Chuck Knox era, Bill Polian era, they both had very good O lines with playoff appearances by Knox in the early 80's, Polian in late 80's, early 90's

 

Although Knox didn't completely build this line, he did add to it. Knox makes the playoffs with this line, he drafts Jim Ritcher with the #1 pick in 1980 but he doesn't actually start for 3 years until 83, ends up playing LG in the NFL for 16 years, 2x pro bowls

 

LT Ken Jones

LG Reggie Mckenzie

C Will Grant

RG Conrad Dobler- replaced Joe DeLamielleure- tough as nails scrappy mean player, would do anything to win his one on one

RT Joe Devlin

 

Bill Polian-1986

 

LT Ken Jones

LG Jim Richter

C Kent Hull

RG Will Wilford

RT Joe Devlin

 

Notice that some players on the team in 1980 were still starting in 1986

 

Bill Polian 1990

 

LT Will Wolford 86-98 7 years with the Bills

LG Jim Richter 80-95 14 years with Bills

C Kent Hull 86-96 10 years with Bills

RG John Davis

RT Howard Ballard 88-98 6 years with Bills

 

You can have a star pro bowl player on an O line and that doesn't mean the other 4 guys will play well. This happens to be particularly true when the Bills had Jason Peters at LT, they had complete failure at the center position the entire time he was with Buffalo. The Bills O line has been a revolving door at so many positions this past decade, different coaching staffs, different players = no continuity, and that = a bad line.

 

I can recall in 08 watching the Jets Kris Jenkins go up the middle, 3 Bills players try to block him...both guards and center... and he still got to the QB! He manhandled all 3...I can recall Phill Simms making a comment about it while watching the game, that one play might have finally gotten Jauron off his butt to draft Wood and Levitre,

 

 

 

2000- John Fina-Ruben Brown-Jerry Ostroski- Jamie Nails-Marcus Spriggs-Robert Hicks-2001 Bill Conaty-Corey Hulsey-Jonas Jennings-2002 Trey Teague-Marques Sullivan-Mike D Williams-2003 Mike Pucillo-Ross Tucker-2004 Lawrence Smith- Chris Villarrial-2005 - Mike Gandy- Bennie Anderson-Jason peters-2006 Tutan Reyes-Melvin Fowler-Duke Preston-Terrence Pennington-2007-Derrick Dockery- Langston Walker-Brad Butler- 2008 ----2009 Demetrius Bell-Johnathan Scott-Andy levitre- Geoff Hangartner-Eric Wood- Kirk Chambers-2010 Mansfield Wrotto- Cornell Green-Erik Pears- Chad Rinehart---37 players in 10 years, Modrak's legacy...

The Bills kept scraping garbage cans in free agents-walk ons-late rounders trying to make do with scrubs, is it really any wonder why this team has been so bad for 10 years. I don't care if ya find them in the 11th round like Howard "house" Ballard as long as they can play and do their job for more then half a season

[ganesh]

 

 

O-line is one of the hardest positions to scout for and also one of the positional groups where guys who are tough and smart and are well-coached can develop into good players and an even better unit.

 

The Bills have invested a fair amount of resources at offensive line. The group is very young. They'll be entering just their 2nd season in the same system.

 

I for one am perfectly fine with the fact that the Bills didn't overreach in the last two drafts for O-line. They had zero chances of drafting an elite tackle in either draft when their pick came up. They drafted Wood and Levitre with high picks. Urbik and Rinehart are very young and were highly-touted players coming out of college. Pears was a 2-year starter for Denver and is still young. Hairston was a great value and has excellent raw skills. Throw in Hangartner, Wrotto, etc. and I think this O-line has a good deal of promise.

 

 

 

It all starts at the Center of the line. We have not had a dominating center since Kent Hull Retired. Far too often the pocket has collapsed from the middle rather than the outside. There has been no push from that middle in the running game. All great teams have had excellent centers, who understand the game and have the right attitude. This has been a recurring theme for the past 16 years.

Edited June 2, 2011 by ganesh

[BillsVet]

To add to what Jauronimo is saying, the New York Giants for several years had the best offensive line in football. The last two years they've aged and gotten somewhat less effective but during their 2007 Super Bowl season and a few seasons on either side of 2007, they were widely considered the best offensive line in the NFL.

 

O-line is one of the hardest positions to scout for and also one of the positional groups where guys who are tough and smart and are well-coached can develop into good players and an even better unit.

 

The Bills have invested a fair amount of resources at offensive line. The group is very young. They'll be entering just their 2nd season in the same system.

 

I for one am perfectly fine with the fact that the Bills didn't overreach in the last two drafts for O-line. They had zero chances of drafting an elite tackle in either draft when their pick came up. They drafted Wood and Levitre with high picks. Urbik and Rinehart are very young and were highly-touted players coming out of college. Pears was a 2-year starter for Denver and is still young. Hairston was a great value and has excellent raw skills. Throw in Hangartner, Wrotto, etc. and I think this O-line has a good deal of promise.

 

The common denominator to all these blue collar and solid OL groups is that proven front offices put them together. They found capable and occasionally top talent late in the draft or via the UDFA route. Beyond Levitre and perhaps Hangartner who might be considered above average caliber on that roster? Furthermore, today's NFL doesn't keep rosters together long, so it's incumbent on the coaches and players to learn fast and play well. We're not going to see 4-5 OL together for 6-8 seasons anymore.

 

And lost in the passing dominated nature of the NFL is the need to protect the edges with good OT's. I don't see Bell ever becoming a good enough OT, and the RT position is a black hole of fringe NFL players. One would hope Hairston could evolve into a good OT, but I don't put a lot of stock into 4th round rookies becoming average starters right away. Moreover, if Erik Pears was so good, then how has he bounced to 4 teams in 3 seasons? And Mansfield Wrotto? He was arguably their worst OT, but then I remember how bad Cordaro Howard and Cornell Green were. This is a position with no depth and marginal talent above that.

 

I for one don't believe it takes 3-4 years to rebuild. Buddy Nix has obviously told RW that's how long it takes, but I beg to differ. Plenty of teams have completed the job in less time and showed real progress on the way there. If Buffalo doesn't win 8 games this season, it's going to call into question the Nix rebuild some have prematurely fallen in love with.