This is Fitz's Team

[paintmyhouse]

You are absolutely a troll. Fitz improved his QB rating by nearly 12 pts from 2008-09 to 2010. He got better in nearly every category. Until his last game against NE*, when he was playing with 1/2 an offense, he was nearly 2-to-1 TD-to-INT.

 

As for your "worse than Edwards and Losman ever looked" ridiculousness -- well, both Edwards and Losman have had only ONE season each in which they had a higher QB rating than Fitz in 2010. Edwards in 2008 was 85.4 in 14 games (11/10 TD/INT), Losman in 2006 was 84.9 (19/14 TD/INT). It's arguable Fitz' season last year (81.8, 23/15) was superior to both of those years.

 

In any event, it's a waste of my time to discuss this with you. But I think you've clearly shown your arse.

 

You keep replying and you keep calling me troll and you keep making yourself look foolish. Fitz apologists love to "leave out that one game". If you want to do that then leave out the Bengals game where the Bills were dreadful, down 31-7 at the half, then the Bengals had their starting CB, both starting safeties (one who had 2 INTs in the first half) and nickel corner all not play for just about the whole 2nd half. 3 of them never came back out of the tunnel. You are wasting your time because you have shown to be poor in debating and only good at name calling.

 

Edwards and Losman actually won more games and both have more 4th quarter comeback wins and game winning drives then Fitz and both have less starts. Fitz might be the least clutch performer as a QB in the NFL ever for the number of starts he has. Go check out the website pro football reference and see his stats on 4th quarter comebacks. That is a mark of a winner, and Fitz is not.

[Adam]

Oh boy, it just keeps going. Again, what does rushing yards have to do with pocket mobility? I am going to do you a favor and explain to you the difference between pocket mobility and scrambling so you can move on.

 

Pocket mobility is not rushing for a first down. It's not scrambling down field and garnering rushing yards. It is the ability to identify where the pressure is coming from and avoid that pressure by maneuvering within the pocket (you know that area behind the O Line where a QB plays football the majority of snaps) using footwork, pocket presence, field vision, speed of his release, etc to buy himself time to still execute the play or roll out away from the pressure to make the pass. It is also a critical attribute for a QB to have in order to create time for his receivers to run their routes and get open. It has almost nothing to do with 40 yard dash speeds, even on roll outs as they are most often not running at full speed as they are looking down field to make a throw and looking to set their feet.

 

Scrambling QB's is obviously a QB who is looking to advance the ball through running if he feels pressure from the D and will be more dependent on his speed to make that possible.

 

Brady is amongst the best in the league at this, even guys like Ron Jaworski have done ESPN pieces on Brady about this. In fact, here is a quote from Ron: “I’ve always said that Tom is one of the most mobile quarterbacks in the game. I’m not talking about run-around quarterbacks, I’m talking about how I believe you have to play the position. He’s always been really good at that moving in the pocket, those subtle little moves to the left or right or up in the pocket that compress and allow some time for receivers to uncover."

 

Based on your previous posts, I am sure none of this will sink in and you will post some other gibberish running stat again to try and disprove what you don't understand. Bottom line is to believe Fitz to be a better option than Brady or Manning because he rushed for a whopping 269 yards is a bit silly.

Correct

 

You are absolutely a troll. Fitz improved his QB rating by nearly 12 pts from 2008-09 to 2010. He got better in nearly every category. Until his last game against NE*, when he was playing with 1/2 an offense, he was nearly 2-to-1 TD-to-INT.

 

As for your "worse than Edwards and Losman ever looked" ridiculousness -- well, both Edwards and Losman have had only ONE season each in which they had a higher QB rating than Fitz in 2010. Edwards in 2008 was 85.4 in 14 games (11/10 TD/INT), Losman in 2006 was 84.9 (19/14 TD/INT). It's arguable Fitz' season last year (81.8, 23/15) was superior to both of those years.

 

In any event, it's a waste of my time to discuss this with you. But I think you've clearly shown your arse.

I am an orc

Edited May 26, 2011 by Adam

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Carson Palmer turned the 4 win 2008 bengals under Fitz into 10-6 bengals.

Palmer was o-4 in 2008 for the Bengals. Then he got injured.

 

Fitz took over and the Bengals went 4-7-1 the rest of the way.

 

In 2008 Fitz played 13 games for the bengals, with virtually the same players.

In 2009 Palmer had a solid year, much better than FItz the year before, with the same players.

 

Palmer quarterbacked every game in 2009 and 2010.

 

The Bengals went from 10-6 to 4-12.

 

What conclusions would you draw from that?

[thewildrabbit]

Oh boy, it just keeps going. Again, what does rushing yards have to do with pocket mobility? I am going to do you a favor and explain to you the difference between pocket mobility and scrambling so you can move on.

 

Pocket mobility is not rushing for a first down. It's not scrambling down field and garnering rushing yards. It is the ability to identify where the pressure is coming from and avoid that pressure by maneuvering within the pocket (you know that area behind the O Line where a QB plays football the majority of snaps) using footwork, pocket presence, field vision, speed of his release, etc to buy himself time to still execute the play or roll out away from the pressure to make the pass. It is also a critical attribute for a QB to have in order to create time for his receivers to run their routes and get open. It has almost nothing to do with 40 yard dash speeds, even on roll outs as they are most often not running at full speed as they are looking down field to make a throw and looking to set their feet.

 

Scrambling QB's is obviously a QB who is looking to advance the ball through running if he feels pressure from the D and will be more dependent on his speed to make that possible.

 

Brady is amongst the best in the league at this, even guys like Ron Jaworski have done ESPN pieces on Brady about this. In fact, here is a quote from Ron: "I've always said that Tom is one of the most mobile quarterbacks in the game. I'm not talking about run-around quarterbacks, I'm talking about how I believe you have to play the position. He's always been really good at that moving in the pocket, those subtle little moves to the left or right or up in the pocket that compress and allow some time for receivers to uncover."

 

Based on your previous posts, I am sure none of this will sink in and you will post some other gibberish running stat again to try and disprove what you don't understand. Bottom line is to believe Fitz to be a better option than Brady or Manning because he rushed for a whopping 269 yards is a bit silly.

Blah Blah Blah....Man, you sure can make up crap as you go just to make yourself believe you are not wrong.... This entire argument was stated BY YOU because I stated I'd rather have Fitz as my QB behind that horrible Buffalo Bills O line. How dare anyone even make the slightest hint that Ryan Fitzpatrick could in any aspect be better then Tom Brady, right?

 

You spew a bunch of condescending BS at people like you know everything there is to know about football, and you don't. Now your off on some tangent about "pocket mobility"... who the freak said anything about pocket mobility, oh yeah, that's right, you did! trying deflect the argument away from the entire point!

 

 

 

Fitz didn't even have a freaking pocket to be mobile in most of the time last year you imbecile! Rushing yards has everything to do with what happens once the pocket breaks down, try and grasp the concept of.... there is no pocket!

 

I watched Fitz all last season play behind one of the worst O lines ever, he had no pocket to slide around in, and it was either throw the ball up for grabs, take the sack or try and make something positive out of nothing, which he did most of the time.

 

 

Most of last season was a jailbreak for opposing defenses because they would get the lead, usually by running the ball down the Buffalo Bills throats to 200+ yards a game and then pin their ears back in coming after Fitz. The guy was either able to get rid of the ball to an open receiver in under 3 seconds or he would escape the pass rush and try and make a first down by running the ball.

 

BTW, that 6.7 YPC avg per rush Fitz had was as good as Micheal Vick was last year

Edited May 26, 2011 by Harvey lives

[Orton's Arm]

This is truly up for debate. There are comparisons that can be made by games we can compare.

 

Bills played Miami without Fitz. QB play was bad pretty bad without Fitz and the Bills scored 10 and lost, with Fitz the QB play was just plain average and the Bills scored 17 points and did win (although Miami did miss 4 FGs).

 

Bills played New England with Fitz and he played well in game 1, but had a few turnovers that were costly and was outplayed by Brady. In game two against New England, he was worse than dreadful, worse than I ever saw Edwards or Losman play and had 6 turnovers. Guess he got found out. He got worse.

 

Bills played Jets with Fitz and he was awful. Bills had 3 and out in 4 of the first 6 drives and the game got out of hand in the 2nd half. With Brohm there were turnovers often and early and the game got out of hand early. No real difference.

 

Here are two good defenses in the same division, although one team won the Super Bowl. Bills played Green Bay with Edwards and were bad. However, Edwards 2 early interceptions that were actually in the hands of WR and taken out of their hands and counted as INTs. Bills were awful all in all on offense. Bills played Vikings, and were terrible on offense, Fitz had a turnover that put the game away. Offense scored 7 points in each of those games. No real difference.

 

Bills were 29th in scoring in 2009, 28th in 2010.

 

Only thing I know is Bills would have won 4 games somehow even if Edwards or Losman played QB last year all year. Makes no sense to say in any type of comparison in clear games you can compare that Fitz proved he was any better than what we saw before unless you are delusional.

Very good post!

 

People forget that during 2010, Fitz's average yards per attempt was a fairly modest 6.8. Trent Edwards' career average is 6.5. Not a huge difference.

 

It's true that the Bills had problems with the OL in 2010. But they also had plenty of problems with the OL back when Edwards was the starter.

 

The Bills also had some injuries/problems at WR in 2010. But Edwards also had to contend with numerous injuries to WRs and problems with TEs during his time in Buffalo.

 

In 2010, Fitz had one of the best offensive coordinators in the league, in the form of Chan Gailey. For most of Edwards' time in Buffalo, he had the likes of Turk Schonert and Alex van Pelt calling plays.

 

Fitz is a better QB than Edwards in some respects. Fitz doesn't restrict himself to the short game only the way Edwards does; and Fitz is one of the best decision-makers in the league. But even though the Fitz of 2010 was a better QB than Edwards, he was not nearly enough better to reasonably considered a long-term answer at QB.

[eball]

Very good post!

 

People forget that during 2010, Fitz's average yards per attempt was a fairly modest 6.8. Trent Edwards' career average is 6.5. Not a huge difference.

 

It's true that the Bills had problems with the OL in 2010. But they also had plenty of problems with the OL back when Edwards was the starter.

 

The Bills also had some injuries/problems at WR in 2010. But Edwards also had to contend with numerous injuries to WRs and problems with TEs during his time in Buffalo.

 

In 2010, Fitz had one of the best offensive coordinators in the league, in the form of Chan Gailey. For most of Edwards' time in Buffalo, he had the likes of Turk Schonert and Alex van Pelt calling plays.

 

Fitz is a better QB than Edwards in some respects. Fitz doesn't restrict himself to the short game only the way Edwards does; and Fitz is one of the best decision-makers in the league. But even though the Fitz of 2010 was a better QB than Edwards, he was not nearly enough better to reasonably considered a long-term answer at QB.

I think these statements are laughable. Sure it's "reasonable" to consider that Fitz, having reached the range of NFL starts at which many QBs "get it," will continue to show improvement (i.e., like the 12-pt jump in QB rating from 2009 to 2010) and be a legitimate 4-5 year starter. It's not "a sure thing" but it's far from the ridiculous assertions of pantyhose that Fitz is an awful QB.

Edited May 26, 2011 by eball

[Orton's Arm]

I think these statements are laughable. Sure it's "reasonable" to consider that Fitz, having reached the range of NFL starts at which many QBs "get it," will continue to show improvement (i.e., like the 12-pt jump in QB rating from 2009 to 2010) and be a legitimate 4-5 year starter. It's not "a sure thing" but it's far from the ridiculous assertions of pantyhose that Fitz is an awful QB.

The improvement you're hoping for will not occur.

 

As I hinted at in my earlier post, Fitz did a number of things well in 2010. (Good decisions, getting rid of the ball quickly when he had to, and so forth.) In fact, he did those things well enough that there probably isn't all that much room for further improvement. Not, at least, in those areas.

 

The thing which was holding Fitz back was his accuracy (or lack thereof). A perfectly good throw would be followed up by an inaccurate one. Severe accuracy issues are typically not corrected this late into an NFL career. Those accuracy issues are why Fitz's stats from 2010 aren't much different than Edwards' career stats. They are also why Fitz, despite his many good qualities, is not and will not be the long-term answer at QB.

 

Choosing the right guy to throw to is useless if you can't follow that decision up with an accurate throw. Consistent accuracy is an essential part of being a good QB, and a good QB is an essential part of building a Super Bowl winner. It is a near certainty that the Bills will not win a Super Bowl as long as Fitz is the starter.

[BillsVet]

I was wrong and I apologize to BillsVet. It was early in the morning, I got pissed and ended up going off on what I thought I saw on profootballreference. Go ahead give it to me, I deserve it.

 

For every stat that the bashers provide, there are equally positive stats that show a markedly improved QB in 2010 than Fitzpatrick's previous years as a starter. It's not quite Drew Brees like, but the swing in improvement was certainly there. Add to the fact that the dirty little secret in Bills land (is and that NO ONE here talks about) was the complete lack of a running game and the worst defense in the league that never shortened the field for our boy.

 

We'll see who's right in 2011 because this is the very definition of a "make or break" season for Fitzpatrick. There will be no gray area. He either gets our team close to or in the playoffs and looking great doing it on a consistent basis, or the Bills are picking a QB in the first round next year.

 

Apology accepted. I have nothing personal against Fitzpatrick. He's an outstanding teammate and someone who leaves it all on the field, in contrast to his predecessor at QB.

 

I don't get emotional about the team or players because it clouds an individual's viewpoint. We don't have to repeat their track record the past decade, and they're still a ways from being a playoff caliber team. I think the Bills will be drafting high in 2012 and looking for one of the top QB's because Fitz is a journeyman.

[eball]

The improvement you're hoping for will not occur.

 

As I hinted at in my earlier post, Fitz did a number of things well in 2010. (Good decisions, getting rid of the ball quickly when he had to, and so forth.) In fact, he did those things well enough that there probably isn't all that much room for further improvement. Not, at least, in those areas.

The thing which was holding Fitz back was his accuracy (or lack thereof). A perfectly good throw would be followed up by an inaccurate one. Severe accuracy issues are typically not corrected this late into an NFL career. Those accuracy issues are why Fitz's stats from 2010 aren't much different than Edwards' career stats. They are also why Fitz, despite his many good qualities, is not and will not be the long-term answer at QB.

 

Choosing the right guy to throw to is useless if you can't follow that decision up with an accurate throw. Consistent accuracy is an essential part of being a good QB, and a good QB is an essential part of building a Super Bowl winner. It is a near certainty that the Bills will not win a Super Bowl as long as Fitz is the starter.

Ok, everyone always brings up Fitz' accuracy problems. Let's analyze. Fitz completed 57.8% of his throws last year -- 27th among "qualified" QBs. That sucks, right? On it's face, viewed purely as a ranked list, sure. The best QB, accuracy-wise, was Brees at 68%. Five other guys (Manning, Rivers, Brady, Kitna, and Rodgers) were better than 65%. Then you've got 20 guys between 58-64%.

 

Ben Roethlisberger -- a three-time SB QB -- completed 61.7% of his passes. The difference between he and Fitz? One more completion every 30 throws.

 

Sorry, I don't see the "severe accuracy issues" here. I see a QB who is still "young" in terms of playing time, and made significant steps last season. And again -- I'm not predicting greatness. I just bristle at the know-it-alls who assert as FACT that Fitz can't get it done.

[thewildrabbit]

The improvement you're hoping for will not occur.

 

As I hinted at in my earlier post, Fitz did a number of things well in 2010. (Good decisions, getting rid of the ball quickly when he had to, and so forth.) In fact, he did those things well enough that there probably isn't all that much room for further improvement. Not, at least, in those areas.

 

The thing which was holding Fitz back was his accuracy (or lack thereof). A perfectly good throw would be followed up by an inaccurate one. Severe accuracy issues are typically not corrected this late into an NFL career. Those accuracy issues are why Fitz's stats from 2010 aren't much different than Edwards' career stats. They are also why Fitz, despite his many good qualities, is not and will not be the long-term answer at QB.

 

Choosing the right guy to throw to is useless if you can't follow that decision up with an accurate throw. Consistent accuracy is an essential part of being a good QB, and a good QB is an essential part of building a Super Bowl winner. It is a near certainty that the Bills will not win a Super Bowl as long as Fitz is the starter.

I disagree, the thing holding Fitz back is the surrounding cast around him, and because this staff decided not to draft any help for the offense it will be about the same thing again this year.

 

When you talk about QB accuracy, can you state with 100% certainty that Fitz is the problem and not the WR running the wrong route or being in the wrong position? About the only people who really know the answer to that question are the players and the coaches, and Chan Gailey stated that Fitz's accuracy is more then good enough. Which leads me to think that it might be more then the QB to blame here. Another aspect is the QB throwing the ball away or running with it because no receiver is open, or can't get open fast enough, so stats and percentages really can be misleading.

 

The team lacked solid play at both offensive tackle positions so Fitz was almost constantly under duress with every offensive snap, in some games the man was literally running for his life every play. It was really painful to watch at times last year because that team was just so bad in almost every area.

 

The defense couldn't stop anybody, no pass rush...the O line couldn't protect worth a darn, both starting WR's out on IR, no TE, one RB. There was a reason that team went 4-12 last year, they were simply pathetic

 

 

The difference between Trent Edwards and Fitzpatrick is that while both have a very fast release, Fitz seemed to be able to find an open receiver down field in 3 seconds or under and not dump the ball off as much to the RB's. Plus he was much more bold and decisive then Edwards,he took chances that Edwards wouldn't take . Dunno, perhaps Edwards didn't trust his receivers and only threw the ball down field if they were wide open. Fitz would try and force the ball into areas like a gunslinger, whereas Edwards would hold the ball and wait for a specific receiver to break open.

 

 

I believe Chan Gailey when he states he can win with Fitz at QB, the real question is how long can Fitz last running for his life again this year.

[Orton's Arm]

I disagree, the thing holding Fitz back is the surrounding cast around him, and because this staff decided not to draft any help for the offense it will be about the same thing again this year.

 

When you talk about QB accuracy, can you state with 100% certainty that Fitz is the problem and not the WR running the wrong route or being in the wrong position? About the only people who really know the answer to that question are the players and the coaches, and Chan Gailey stated that Fitz's accuracy is more then good enough. Which leads me to think that it might be more then the QB to blame here. Another aspect is the QB throwing the ball away or running with it because no receiver is open, or can't get open fast enough, so stats and percentages really can be misleading.

 

The team lacked solid play at both offensive tackle positions so Fitz was almost constantly under duress with every offensive snap, in some games the man was literally running for his life every play. It was really painful to watch at times last year because that team was just so bad in almost every area.

 

The defense couldn't stop anybody, no pass rush...the O line couldn't protect worth a darn, both starting WR's out on IR, no TE, one RB. There was a reason that team went 4-12 last year, they were simply pathetic

 

 

The difference between Trent Edwards and Fitzpatrick is that while both have a very fast release, Fitz seemed to be able to find an open receiver down field in 3 seconds or under and not dump the ball off as much to the RB's. Plus he was much more bold and decisive then Edwards,he took chances that Edwards wouldn't take . Dunno, perhaps Edwards didn't trust his receivers and only threw the ball down field if they were wide open. Fitz would try and force the ball into areas like a gunslinger, whereas Edwards would hold the ball and wait for a specific receiver to break open.

 

 

I believe Chan Gailey when he states he can win with Fitz at QB, the real question is how long can Fitz last running for his life again this year.

My concerns about Fitz's accuracy aren't based on stats so much as they are on watching him play. A lot of times a pass will be too low or too high or otherwise off the mark. There are good passes mixed in with the bad, but there are far more bad passes than you'd expect from a first-tier QB.

 

Compare that to Aaron Rodgers. During the Super Bowl, he threw maybe one bad pass the whole game. (There might have been a couple others I forgot, but probably not more than that.) His completion percentage didn't fully reflect how well he played due to dropped passes, times when he needed to throw the ball away, etc.

 

People talk about the poor supporting cast Fitz had this past season, and there's certainly some truth there. But what sometimes gets lost in the discussion are the times when Fitz's receivers bailed him out by catching badly thrown passes. Rodgers' receivers haven't done nearly as much for him, because there are very few badly thrown passes for Green Bay's receivers to try to catch! If you were to look at the ratio of good:bad passes, the difference between Rodgers and Fitz would be much larger than if you were to compare completion percentages.

 

In addition to pure accuracy, there are two other traits Fitz seems to lack: touch and timing. By touch I mean throwing the ball at exactly the right velocity for the situation. Sometimes you may need to gun it in there between two defenders. Other times you should take a little off the throw to make it more catchable. By timing I mean the ability to hit the receiver in perfect stride, to lead him, instead of making him slow down. Joe Montana was an expert at this, just as his touch and pure accuracy were also commendable.

 

As for whether Gailey can win with Fitz, the answer is clear. Of course he can! This is the same guy who won games with Tyler Thigpen, Kordell Stewart, and Jay Fiedler. The real question is whether Gailey can with the Super Bowl with Fitz. Unless the Bills recreate the Ravens of 2000 defense, the answer there is pretty clear-cut.

[paintmyhouse]

@edwards Arm, he never really won games with Tyler Thigpen. Basically the same as Fitz. Chiefs won 1 game he played in.

 

Thigpen, Stewert, Fiedler, Fitz, sounds like a stubborn coach to me. All are average to below average and inaccurate, they all basically have the same stats. You would think Gailey would want someone better. Not one of those guys ever displayed any ability even close to top 15 in the NFL and Fiedler and Stewert had really good defenses too.

 

Fitz gets his receivers killed every single game by his inaccuracy too, I will add.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

... sounds like a stubborn coach to me. You would think Gailey would want someone better.

Yes, because we all know that the offensive coordinator dictates to the Head Coach and the General Manager who his quarterback is gonna be.

[Orton's Arm]

@edwards Arm, he never really won games with Tyler Thigpen. Basically the same as Fitz. Chiefs won 1 game he played in.

 

Thigpen, Stewert, Fiedler, Fitz, sounds like a stubborn coach to me. All are average to below average and inaccurate, they all basically have the same stats. You would think Gailey would want someone better. Not one of those guys ever displayed any ability even close to top 15 in the NFL and Fiedler and Stewert had really good defenses too.

 

Fitz gets his receivers killed every single game by his inaccuracy too, I will add.

Good point about Thigpen. I hadn't kept track of the number of games the Chiefs won while he was under center.

 

I agree with most of what you'd written. It's worth noting that every QB with whom Gailey has worked has done significantly better with him than without him. Guys like Kordell Stewart, Tyler Thigpen, and Jay Fiedler faded into nothingness once Gailey was no longer their coach. Fitzpatrick's career average is 6.0 yards per attempt, which is the sort of stat you'd expect from a player who's somewhere between "mediocre backup" and "lucky to even be in the league." But in 2010, Fitz averaged a fairly respectable 6.8 yards per attempt. I credit a large portion of that improvement to Gailey's coaching and offensive scheme.

 

I think Gailey would prefer better QBs than Thigpen, Fiedler, Fitzpatrick, etc. Going into the 2010 draft, the position of Nix, Gailey, etc., was basically, "we like Fitz a lot, but if there's a chance to take a good QB early in the draft, we'll do it." I think Gailey recognized he needs a better QB than Fitz, but doesn't want to make negative public comments about his current starter.

[thewildrabbit]

Good point about Thigpen. I hadn't kept track of the number of games the Chiefs won while he was under center.

 

I agree with most of what you'd written. It's worth noting that every QB with whom Gailey has worked has done significantly better with him than without him. Guys like Kordell Stewart, Tyler Thigpen, and Jay Fiedler faded into nothingness once Gailey was no longer their coach. Fitzpatrick's career average is 6.0 yards per attempt, which is the sort of stat you'd expect from a player who's somewhere between "mediocre backup" and "lucky to even be in the league." But in 2010, Fitz averaged a fairly respectable 6.8 yards per attempt. I credit a large portion of that improvement to Gailey's coaching and offensive scheme.

 

I think Gailey would prefer better QBs than Thigpen, Fiedler, Fitzpatrick, etc. Going into the 2010 draft, the position of Nix, Gailey, etc., was basically, "we like Fitz a lot, but if there's a chance to take a good QB early in the draft, we'll do it." I think Gailey recognized he needs a better QB than Fitz, but doesn't want to make negative public comments about his current starter.

Ya know, everyone looks at the QB and how many games he won, how about we look at the 2008 OC for the Chiefs, 2-14 and the QB slinging the ball all over in losing efforts much the same way Fitz did last year. That same 08 KC team seems so eerily similar to last years Buffalo Bills, with a really bad defense, no running game to speak of and the only bright spot was the QB play in running a spread offense.

 

Now go back and look at the 2010 Chiefs team, only 2 years removed from 2-14 and they make the playoffs, have a top tier QB they are developing and about the best running attack in the NFL now....WHAT HAPPENED!

 

 

in 09 the Chiefs team president Carl Peterson resigned (it was resign or get fired) the Chiefs then steal the NE Patriots VP of player personnel Scott Pioli and he fires the HC in Herm Edwards and hires OC Todd Haley away away from Arizona. Haley tries to make it work with Gailey but then in pre season when he see's so much difference between they way he wants plays called and the offense run, he fires Gailey 2 weeks before the season starts. Todd Haley set up the Chiefs offense and called the plays himself the team improved from 2-14 to 4-12.

 

Then In the 2010 off season GM Pioli and Haley hire ex-patriots coaches in Romeo Crennel as DC, and Charlie Weis as the OC to run the offense. In one year the team went from 4-12 to 10-6, to #14 in offense and #11 in defense. With Thomas Jones as the lead RB and Jamaal Charles who was the #2 RB in the NFL in rushing last year with 1467 yards on 230 attempts, a 6.4 YPC avg. So to those who say 3 yards and a cloud of dust no longer works had better take a long look at last years Chiefs.

 

 

 

The Bottom line in all this is....while everyone is lamenting over the play of the QB.... most are missing the bigger picture. The Chiefs hire some top assistants and get better, way better. The Buffalo Bills hire a bunch of unknown college assistants and get worse. What sucks in my view is that the Bills have an almost viable QB in Fitz who was clearly head and shoulders above anyone the Bills have had at QB in years.(The guy threw for 3000 yards on a totally crap team with both starting WR's on IR) and this GM/HC didn't upgrade his protection. The problem in my view is his OC, his HC, his GM and the defense.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Harvey lives

[1billsfan]

The improvement you're hoping for will not occur.

 

As I hinted at in my earlier post, Fitz did a number of things well in 2010. (Good decisions, getting rid of the ball quickly when he had to, and so forth.) In fact, he did those things well enough that there probably isn't all that much room for further improvement. Not, at least, in those areas.

 

The thing which was holding Fitz back was his accuracy (or lack thereof). A perfectly good throw would be followed up by an inaccurate one. Severe accuracy issues are typically not corrected this late into an NFL career. Those accuracy issues are why Fitz's stats from 2010 aren't much different than Edwards' career stats. They are also why Fitz, despite his many good qualities, is not and will not be the long-term answer at QB.

 

Choosing the right guy to throw to is useless if you can't follow that decision up with an accurate throw. Consistent accuracy is an essential part of being a good QB, and a good QB is an essential part of building a Super Bowl winner. It is a near certainty that the Bills will not win a Super Bowl as long as Fitz is the starter.

 

That's truly an idiotic statement. In Edwards' best season he had a measly 11 touchdown passes. Fitzpatrick had 23 last year. Yet you dare to compare the two? Are you dumb? Am I the only one here laughing at these "bold" and idiotic statements being made in this thread? Comparing Edwards to Fitzpatrick? Seriously? WOW, you guys seriously need to stop sniffing the paint thinner brother.

 

It's a good thing that Jim Kelly never played during the modern internet era. In his 11 seasons, Kelly "only" passed the "magical" 60% completion rate 4 times. Dan Marino's career completion percentage is 59%.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick puts the flippin' ball into the flippin' end zone. If you guys can't see that or don't appreciate that then fine, but don't think you can get away with wildly stupid statements like that one that you made here and not get called out for it.

[Rockinon]

Ok, everyone always brings up Fitz' accuracy problems. Let's analyze. Fitz completed 57.8% of his throws last year -- 27th among "qualified" QBs. That sucks, right? On it's face, viewed purely as a ranked list, sure. The best QB, accuracy-wise, was Brees at 68%. Five other guys (Manning, Rivers, Brady, Kitna, and Rodgers) were better than 65%. Then you've got 20 guys between 58-64%.

 

Ben Roethlisberger -- a three-time SB QB -- completed 61.7% of his passes. The difference between he and Fitz? One more completion every 30 throws.

 

Sorry, I don't see the "severe accuracy issues" here. I see a QB who is still "young" in terms of playing time, and made significant steps last season. And again -- I'm not predicting greatness. I just bristle at the know-it-alls who assert as FACT that Fitz can't get it done.

There are a lot of them around and I have to agree with you, though we came to the same conclusion taking different paths.

 

In Edwards' best season he had a measly 11 touchdown passes. Fitzpatrick had 23 last year.

 

This is how you tell if a QB is any good. Scoring.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Rockinon

[K Gun Special]

That's truly an idiotic statement. In Edwards' best season he had a measly 11 touchdown passes. Fitzpatrick had 23 last year. Yet you dare to compare the two? Are you dumb? Am I the only one here laughing at these "bold" and idiotic statements being made in this thread? Comparing Edwards to Fitzpatrick? Seriously? WOW, you guys seriously need to stop sniffing the paint thinner brother.

 

It's a good thing that Jim Kelly never played during the modern internet era. In his 11 seasons, Kelly "only" passed the "magical" 60% completion rate 4 times. Dan Marino's career completion percentage is 59%.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick puts the flippin' ball into the flippin' end zone. If you guys can't see that or don't appreciate that then fine, but don't think you can get away with wildly stupid statements like that one that you made here and not get called out for it.

 

 

Kelly played in an era when he was top 5 in completion percentage almost every year despite being below 60%. The NFL has evolved since that time to emphasize shorter precision passing.

 

The comparison of % from today to 1990 is not one that holds up very well, especially given that Kelly was one of the very best, % wise, and otherwise of his day.

 

I dont think its absurd to compare Ewards to FItz. Neither has won games here in buffalo. Fitz throws more TDs and has more turnovers. Edwards scored less but turned the ball over less frequently. Just for example, Fitz threw 7 more INTs in his last 500 or so attempts as a bill than did Edwards. But he threw for many more TDs as would be expected for a QB who takes more chances.

 

Fitz has the chance to put edwards in the past this season. I think we'll find out quickly whether he can build on last season's growth.

[billsfreak]

@edwards Arm, he never really won games with Tyler Thigpen. Basically the same as Fitz. Chiefs won 1 game he played in.

 

Thigpen, Stewert, Fiedler, Fitz, sounds like a stubborn coach to me. All are average to below average and inaccurate, they all basically have the same stats. You would think Gailey would want someone better. Not one of those guys ever displayed any ability even close to top 15 in the NFL and Fiedler and Stewert had really good defenses too.

 

Fitz gets his receivers killed every single game by his inaccuracy too, I will add.

Maybe everywhere he has been the refer to him as a "Quarterback Genius" (a total joke in itself) like alot of the people on this board have, and he has paid too much attention to that and let it go to his head.

[paintmyhouse]

Ya know, everyone looks at the QB and how many games he won, how about we look at the 2008 OC for the Chiefs, 2-14 and the QB slinging the ball all over in losing efforts much the same way Fitz did last year. That same 08 KC team seems so eerily similar to last years Buffalo Bills, with a really bad defense, no running game to speak of and the only bright spot was the QB play in running a spread offense.

 

Now go back and look at the 2010 Chiefs team, only 2 years removed from 2-14 and they make the playoffs, have a top tier QB they are developing and about the best running attack in the NFL now....WHAT HAPPENED!

 

 

in 09 the Chiefs team president Carl Peterson resigned (it was resign or get fired) the Chiefs then steal the NE Patriots VP of player personnel Scott Pioli and he fires the HC in Herm Edwards and hires OC Todd Haley away away from Arizona. Haley tries to make it work with Gailey but then in pre season when he see's so much difference between they way he wants plays called and the offense run, he fires Gailey 2 weeks before the season starts. Todd Haley set up the Chiefs offense and called the plays himself the team improved from 2-14 to 4-12.

 

Then In the 2010 off season GM Pioli and Haley hire ex-patriots coaches in Romeo Crennel as DC, and Charlie Weis as the OC to run the offense. In one year the team went from 4-12 to 10-6, to #14 in offense and #11 in defense. With Thomas Jones as the lead RB and Jamaal Charles who was the #2 RB in the NFL in rushing last year with 1467 yards on 230 attempts, a 6.4 YPC avg. So to those who say 3 yards and a cloud of dust no longer works had better take a long look at last years Chiefs.

 

 

 

The Bottom line in all this is....while everyone is lamenting over the play of the QB.... most are missing the bigger picture. The Chiefs hire some top assistants and get better, way better. The Buffalo Bills hire a bunch of unknown college assistants and get worse. What sucks in my view is that the Bills have an almost viable QB in Fitz who was clearly head and shoulders above anyone the Bills have had at QB in years.(The guy threw for 3000 yards on a totally crap team with both starting WR's on IR) and this GM/HC didn't upgrade his protection. The problem in my view is his OC, his HC, his GM and the defense.

 

You said Chiefs have a top tier QB. Not sure about that, but Cassell did only turn the ball over 8 total times in 16 games. That is pretty good. Your QB better either not turn the ball over or be a clutch performer in the 4th quarter. fitz has proven to be very turnover prone and has not any ability to lead his team to wins in the 4th quarter when the Bills were in games, that means he is not clutch.

 

Your whole last paragraph,especially your last sentence clearly shows you have no objectivity when looking at Fitz at all. You said his WRs were all hurt,then said his OC,HC, GM, and defense all stink. Dude you forgot the OLINE, the fans and the ballboys and Fitz's wife for not blowing him more often.