Offside Number 76 Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I live in Philly area and I get teased a lot about the Bills. Two of my Buddies just called me laughing that Fitz was our QB. They said that we should get Vince Young. I told them that Fitz is the guy for this team at this time. If our D can at least be average and our O-line improves, the Bills will be a decent team this year. The last thing we need is a headcase like VY to set us back further. You could remind your friends that since the merger, the Bills have exactly as many Super Bowl wins and twice as many conference championships as Filly does. And agreed on your main point re: Fitz.
eball Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I don't have any stats to back me up, but I seem to recall reading that there are a number of examples in NFL history of QBs who take the "next step" at somewhere around the 30-40 starts mark. Fitz has certainly shown enough signs of potential that I'm keeping hope alive he's one of those guys.
K Gun Special Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I don't have any stats to back me up, but I seem to recall reading that there are a number of examples in NFL history of QBs who take the "next step" at somewhere around the 30-40 starts mark. Fitz has certainly shown enough signs of potential that I'm keeping hope alive he's one of those guys. how many of those guys needed 7 years in the league to get that many starts?
1billsfan Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 how many of those guys needed 7 years in the league to get that many starts? Bradshaw, Plunkett, Fouts, Simms, Moon, Testaverde, Warner, Gannon, Hasselbeck, Brees I think the past few years of QBs doing well right out of the gate has skewed fans' perceptions of what's considered the "normal" rate of progression of the NFL QB. The answer is that of all the top QBs that have played in this league, the rate of progression varies from immediate success to around Fitzpatirck's age of 28. Fitzpatrick has all the earmarks of an "old school" taking a few years to learn the ropes kind of a guy. Of all the top QBs that have played this game, probably around 25- 30 percent took till the age of 28 to become a top QB. Way back before last year's Baltimore game, I posted a thread showing that Fitzpatrick was putting up numbers that suggested he was a late bloomer. The rest of the 2010 season only confirmed my belief this was the case. I get that there are fans here that need more confirmation. He does need to become even better that what he is right now. The next step of progression for Fitzpatrick is to start beating good teams like the Patriots and Jets.
thewildrabbit Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 how many of those guys needed 7 years in the league to get that many starts? Lots never see that many consecutive starts and therefore never fully develop as a QB. not many back ups can make it if they never get the chance to start. How many chances does a 7th rounder get as starter vs a 1st rounder, even if he looks great in practice most teams will play the early picks before the later picks and give them more reps. Bill Walsh stated that it took an avg QB 3-4 years to fully develop, meaning with the same coaches, in the same system and as the starter.
billsfreak Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 You're right...What we need instead is a QB with a Career 73 QB Rating and a 12-23 Record as a Starter... I'm kidding with you a bit...At this point Fitz is probably the best option for the Bills regardless of who is left out there...But lets not get too carried away just yet...Lets see if Fitz takes the next BIG step towards being a Top 10 NFL QB...We'll see... I agree with you, Fitz most likely will never be in the top 50% of the starters in the league, but I guess he makes losing a little more exciting than some of the stiffs we have had lately.
1billsfan Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I agree with you, Fitz most likely will never be in the top 50% of the starters in the league, but I guess he makes losing a little more exciting than some of the stiffs we have had lately. That's a very dumb statement considering he was 13th in TD passes with only 13 freaking starts.
paintmyhouse Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I agree with you, Fitz most likely will never be in the top 50% of the starters in the league, but I guess he makes losing a little more exciting than some of the stiffs we have had lately. He was one of the worst rated starters on a 4 win tea. it was a fair enough statement, it actually gave him too much credit. He is an awful starting QB, one of the worst returning starters in the NFL for teams that have no starting QB competition. Might be the worst. Turnover machine, inaccurate, proven loser, and not clutch at all.
paintmyhouse Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Bradshaw, Plunkett, Fouts, Simms, Moon, Testaverde, Warner, Gannon, Hasselbeck, Brees I think the past few years of QBs doing well right out of the gate has skewed fans' perceptions of what's considered the "normal" rate of progression of the NFL QB. The answer is that of all the top QBs that have played in this league, the rate of progression varies from immediate success to around Fitzpatirck's age of 28. Fitzpatrick has all the earmarks of an "old school" taking a few years to learn the ropes kind of a guy. Of all the top QBs that have played this game, probably around 25- 30 percent took till the age of 28 to become a top QB. Way back before last year's Baltimore game, I posted a thread showing that Fitzpatrick was putting up numbers that suggested he was a late bloomer. The rest of the 2010 season only confirmed my belief this was the case. I get that there are fans here that need more confirmation. He does need to become even better that what he is right now. The next step of progression for Fitzpatrick is to start beating good teams like the Patriots and Jets. But he did not progress. He got monumentally worse then he already was as the season went on and it is not really even close. He was mercy sat against the Jets in the last game too because of how awful he was playing.
billsfreak Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) That's a very dumb statement considering he was 13th in TD passes with only 13 freaking starts. That is just one stat, and if you are always behind in the second half you are going to throw alot more than most quarterbacks do. I bet he also is in the top percent of stupid interceptions at the end of the game too. You can look for one stat for almost any player in the league and make it sound positive, so in my opinion your statement is pretty dumb. He was one of the worst rated starters on a 4 win tea. it was a fair enough statement, it actually gave him too much credit. He is an awful starting QB, one of the worst returning starters in the NFL for teams that have no starting QB competition. Might be the worst. Turnover machine, inaccurate, proven loser, and not clutch at all. You are very accurate in your statement. He might be the worst QB in the league that isn't facing any competition for his job, in fact maybe one of the worst ever. He doesn't even have a backup on the roster, much less competition for his job. I like Fitz and think he is an excellent backup QB, but to just give him the job with no competition makes you wonder about Nix and Gailey since you don't need a very good memory to remember they handed the job to Trent Edwards last year and how did that turn out. There is a chance that even though Fitz played maybe his worst games at the end of the season, he might get even better this year. There is also a chance, and a very realistic one that the 2010 season will end up having been the best of his career and after a chance to look at a compilation of film on his play, defenses will prove that he is just a backup and not a NFL quality starter. Edited May 25, 2011 by billsfreak
eball Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 But he did not progress. He got monumentally worse then he already was as the season went on and it is not really even close. He was mercy sat against the Jets in the last game too because of how awful he was playing. Fitz' last game before the "mercy benching" was a horrible outing against the Pats*, to be sure. In the two games prior to that, however, he posted wins over Cleveland and Miami and QB ratings of 93 and 98.7. Thanks for playing, troll!
paintmyhouse Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 That's a very dumb statement considering he was 13th in TD passes with only 13 freaking starts. Kitna had 16 in 9 starts, for a 1.77 TDs a game, Fitz was 23 in 13, for 1.76 a game. Guess they are both awesome. Garrard had 23 TDs in 14 games (basically 13, he went out on the first play in one game), so basically the exact same as Fitz and they traded up to draft a QB in round 1 this season. Orton had 20 TDs in 13 starts, similar to Fitz, less TDs, but turned the ball over 7 less times and averaged 50 yards more passing a game. Shaun Hill had 10 starts and 16 TDs for 1.6 TDs a game. Guess all these guys are pretty good then!!! Fitz is no different and is actually worse of a player then each guy listed above, and all of them, Garrard, Kitna, Orton, and Hill, will be backups by the end of next year. Fitz starting will kill this team. He is awful. Fitz' last game before the "mercy benching" was a horrible outing against the Pats*, to be sure. In the two games prior to that, however, he posted wins over Cleveland and Miami and QB ratings of 93 and 98.7. Thanks for playing, troll! You are calling me a troll for giving a QB props for leading his team to Dick Jauron like 13-6 win against the Browns (Browns had late drive stalled for the tie too and Hillis had like 5 fumbles, Fitz 142 yards passing and lost a fumble, which does not count in QB rating but should), and 17-14 against the Phins (they missed 4 FGs that game and had a chance to win late still). He sure led them!!! 30 points in 2 games!! Defense and inept opponents won those 2 games. Please open your eyes. You really just made yourself look foolish by calling me a troll. If you want to give him credit for posting wins then he gets hit for the losses then too.
Homey D. Clown Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I think what people fail to realize here is that the team lost 2 starting wide receivers, offensive linemen, and even a few backup receivers as the season wore on. If I am to analyze the play of Fitzpatrick, I think it would only be fair to say his game dropped off near the end of the season only if the entire offense didn't drop off the field. Call it an excuse, or try to factor it out of your logic, but facts are facts, and the players that ran up some points against solid defenses earlier in the season were no longer on the field, plain and simple. I would just like to see the offensive line alone stay in tact for once, it seems like this unit gets decimated every single year since Mularkey left, and I don't see how any QB can win with the amount of injuries this team incurs every year.
The Big Cat Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 People who keep harping on this point that he "got worse as the season went on" fail to recall that we were without both Lee and Roscoe, the only two receivers on our roster who even remotely resemble "vets." Filling in for the last three games of the year were a third-year seventh round pick (our "stud") and three undrafted free agent rookies. We also had a revolving door (in every possible sense) manning the right tackle position and throughout the season, but particularly toward the end of the season, our rushing on first and second down was simply deplorable. Also, Fitz missed the last game of the season because he was so badly banged up, and by his own admission he probably should have missed the game prior to that, too (the clunker in New England). Everyone on both sides of the Fitz debate want to evaluate the guy based on stats-in-a-vacuum. But let's be real. Sometime around week 12, this team got halfway up the mount, looked back only to see its poorly bound supplies cascading back down the precipice below, gazed upwards just as clouds and fog accumulated at the summit, sighed and said, "!@#$ it."
eball Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Fitz starting will kill this team. He is awful. You are calling me a troll for giving a QB props for leading his team to Dick Jauron like 13-6 win against the Browns (Browns had late drive stalled for the tie too and Hillis had like 5 fumbles, Fitz 142 yards passing and lost a fumble, which does not count in QB rating but should), and 17-14 against the Phins (they missed 4 FGs that game and had a chance to win late still). He sure led them!!! 30 points in 2 games!! Defense and inept opponents won those 2 games. Please open your eyes. You really just made yourself look foolish by calling me a troll. If you want to give him credit for posting wins then he gets hit for the losses then too. If you're not a troll, you're a douche. I'm not suggesting Fitz is going to light the league on fire, but what gets under my skin is "experts" like yourself who "know" he will not be successful. You spout off as if you hold all the answers, when you're no more insightful than anyone else. Sorry, I'm not willing to give a guy who just joined the board two days ago the benefit of the doubt.
thewildrabbit Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Guys, he is probably just some bored dolphin dufas that wants to stir things up. Considering how bad that Buffalo Offensive line is I'd rather have Fitz as my QB then any other AFC East QB, including Tom Brady. If Brady suffers many injuries playing behind the great wall of NE, he would get killed trying to play behind the many clowns on that Buffalo line, and wouldn't last one game.
The Big Cat Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Guys, he is probably just some bored dolphin dufas that wants to stir things up. Considering how bad that Buffalo Offensive line is I'd rather have Fitz as my QB then any other AFC East QB, including Tom Brady. If Brady suffers many injuries playing behind the great wall of NE, he would get killed trying to play behind the many clowns on that Buffalo line, and wouldn't last one game. THANK YOU I've been saying for years that Brady is first and foremost a product of his line and the system. That without BOTH components at his advantage he's half the player he's touted to be.
john Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I don't usually post on this website, though I do very much enjoy reading everyone's posts on a fairly regular basis. For what it's worth, here are my two cents on Fitz as our starting QB: My first memory of Fitz was watching him play in the game against the Jets (2009-2010 season) after Edwards was injured very early in the game. I remember being very unimpressed for maybe the first 3 quarters of the game. A lot of his throws were way off target and his completion percentage was probably close to only 45-50%. However, the 4th quarter of that game completely changed my perception of the guy and I've never been a doubter since. He stepped up in the pocket to avoid a very heavy rush and fired a strike over the middle to Lee Evans who either scored a touchdown or gained a huge first down that led to a touchdown. I remember thinking, 'wow, when was the last time we had a quarterback with enough guts to attempt to throw the ball in a very tight window like that, while under heavy pressure'? I was sold. The guy has guts. He isn't afraid to step up into the pocket and fire the pass into a short window or into heavy traffic. Sometimes this leads to interceptions. Other times it leads to huge first downs and touchdowns. He isn't one to just check the ball down and not take chances. It's this gunslinger mentality that really draws me to him and makes me a believer. I know he needs to get better with his decision making skills....though I know he is a smart guy, no one can question that. I truly do believe his decisions will get better this year as he gets more reps with the first string offense and he gains more and more confidence from his teammates and coaches. Bottom line, the guy isn't a mister check down and he made a ton of huge plays for us this season all because he was willing to take a chance...something we have not seen from a QB on this team since Drew Bledsoe. Fitz has his weaknesses for sure, don't get me wrong. He will never be confused with Montana as he isn't one of the more accurate quarterbacks in the league. Nor will he ever be confused with John Elway as he doesn't have a rocket for an arm. But I can't help but throw in a word that gets kicked around a lot here...intangibles. He looks like a leader...he talks like a leader...he acts like a leader...and he has, in my humble opinion, just enough arm strength and solid fundamentals to be a very solid starter in this league. For all of those people putting him down for his poor performance last season, especially down the stretch, I just don't understand the logic there. He was up against some of the better blitzing teams in the league against Minnesota, Miami, and New England. He was a sitting duck with less than average protection most of the time in those games and for the Miami and New England games, he was without two starting receivers both games. For what he had to work with, he showed me enough, over the course of the season, for me to have confidence in him as a quarterback and as a leader who is more than capable of leading this team into the playoffs. Year 2 in Gailey's system, with everyone back and healthy (healthy being the key word), and going into the system as the unquestioned starter, I have nothing but confidence and excitement heading into the season. If he ends up crumbling under the pressure and it turns out he isn't the man for the job, then so be it. I will still support him and everyone else on this team, for better or worse. Go Bills!!
Adam Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I live in Philly area and I get teased a lot about the Bills. Two of my Buddies just called me laughing that Fitz was our QB. They said that we should get Vince Young. I told them that Fitz is the guy for this team at this time. If our D can at least be average and our O-line improves, the Bills will be a decent team this year. The last thing we need is a headcase like VY to set us back further. I think the DL will be much better with Troup, Dareus, Williams, Johnson, Carrington and Edwards. If Moats can progress and we get production from Poz and Davis, LB will be solid, but not spectacular. The secondary worries me. The OL needs a lot of improvement.
paintmyhouse Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If you're not a troll, you're a douche. I'm not suggesting Fitz is going to light the league on fire, but what gets under my skin is "experts" like yourself who "know" he will not be successful. You spout off as if you hold all the answers, when you're no more insightful than anyone else. Sorry, I'm not willing to give a guy who just joined the board two days ago the benefit of the doubt. I do know better. I have proved it. I showed what happened in comparable games, and also showed statistics of comparable QBs and it is painfully obvious how inadequate Fitz is. I have not even had to call anyone a troll or a douche either, since that clearly would have put me over and made me look much more intelligent if I had. Manning had no WRs either and no OLINE either and no running game too. Colts defense let up 2 less points a game and 20 yards less a game. He got it done. Kyle Orton is easily the best comparison though. No WRs, no running game, and he put up better stats then Fitz did and got benched and likely replaced. Even better is Jacksonville. They let the same amount of points as the Bills, and let up more yards on defense than the Bills, but Garrard got it done and they were playing in what was basically a playoff game in week 16. Yet, THEY DRAFTED A QB IN ROUND 1 TO REPLACE HIM!!! Fitz is no leader. He has less 4th quarter comeback wins and game winning drives than JP Losman and Trent Edwards and Fitz has more career starts. @John, I see you point out Fitz had to play against better blitzing teams at the end like Minnesota, Miami, and New England. Well, Edwards played against Miami and Green Bay and was cut for the same poor play Fitz displayed after it being determined for the 2nd season in a row by 2 coaching staffs that Edwards was better in training camp than Fitz was. It is no shocker that Fitz stinks. Hate the Jets. Hate the Phins. Hate the Patriots. Hate that Fitz is the QB because the Bills that I love have no chance to compete with that guy playing QB.
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