Buftex Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) link Its' not really clear from the article, are the Bills the first/only team to take such a measure? It would seem, the coaches have a contract with the Bills, they can't go coach somewhere else while under contract, so it seems (to me anyways) kind of crummy to mess with their pensions. I know, I know, they should be glad to have jobs, yadda yadda yadda...but if the Bills are the first team to do this, it really reeks of "Ralph is being cheap." How much money would the Bills, realistically, be bringing in during the off-season? If anything, they are likely saving money on operational costs. I could see changing things up, for the coaches, if they actually start missing training camps and games...but right now, it just seems like taking advantage of a bad situation, and the coaches are kind of caught in the middle. Edited May 24, 2011 by Buftex
birdog1960 Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 now, even more than before, there will be a dearth of top candidates for any future coaching vacancies with the bills...and who can blame them? they should be doing MORE than other teams. this is incredibly short sighted.
dwight in philly Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) just more of the "same old same old" with wilson. it is tiring, has been , with few exceptions, over the past 50 years.. but we should all be glad he kept the team in buffalo, yada yada.. but , the franchise's laughingstock status is because of him and his advisers and i am quite sure all of us take it personally when the franchise gets dumped on . the perception of the team nationally sucks and it pis-es me off..like everyone else, i grasp at any positive thread of hope, but in the end, we have witnessed a team run around in clown uniforms the past decade as they bore the ever-lovin sh-t outta of us.. Edited May 24, 2011 by dwight in philly
Heitz Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I read an article about this (or heard it on Sirius, nearly every team is doing the same. Something like four teams weren't doing this... Most of the coaches and staff will get any "missed" pay back once the lockout is over (though there were a couple teams that were not going to pay them back). Sorry I don't have more facts / links, just going by what I remember here at work
Malazan Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 should totally have a separate Coach's Union to make thing more interesting!
Beerball Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 I read an article about this (or heard it on Sirius, nearly every team is doing the same. Something like four teams weren't doing this... Most of the coaches and staff will get any "missed" pay back once the lockout is over (though there were a couple teams that were not going to pay them back). Sorry I don't have more facts / links, just going by what I remember here at work I'm not sure if you are talking about salary cuts or these pension cuts, but no matter. Buffalo will not make up what employees lose. link
Buftex Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 should totally have a separate Coach's Union to make thing more interesting! I thought there was some noise about an assistant coaches' union, about a year ago...no?
billsfan89 Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Aren't coaches contracts gauranteed? Would this be in violation of their contracts? I guess that there has to be some sort of language in their contracts that makes this possible.
BillnutinHouston Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Over the past several months, other articles have documented that the Bills' pension plan was superior to that of most of the league. Just saying.
Delete This Account Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Over the past several months, other articles have documented that the Bills' pension plan was superior to that of most of the league. Just saying. it was hailed as "the best" of the teams that opted out of NFL plan by Larry Kennan, executive director of NFL Coaches Association. and yet, Kennan told the AP this evening that to his knowledge Bills have become first of those teams that opted out of plan to suspend payments to their plan. full story out on wire about a minute ago. ... gotta run. jw
Beerball Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 it was hailed as "the best" of the teams that opted out of NFL plan by Larry Kennan, executive director of NFL Coaches Association. and yet, Kennan told the AP this evening that to his knowledge Bills have become first of those teams that opted out of plan to suspend payments to their plan. full story out on wire about a minute ago. ... gotta run. jw Thanks for the head up JW
ganesh Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I'm not sure if you are talking about salary cuts or these pension cuts, but no matter. Buffalo will not make up what employees lose. link Last year when my company was not doing fiscally well, they decided to contribute to the 401(K) but forced everyone to take a day off without pay each month to compensate the cost for the 401(k). Similarly, they made a temporary reduction of x% in the salary until December. When companies or oganizations are hit at their bottom line, they have to take actions.
Buftex Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Last year when my company was not doing fiscally well, they decided to contribute to the 401(K) but forced everyone to take a day off without pay each month to compensate the cost for the 401(k). Similarly, they made a temporary reduction of x% in the salary until December. When companies or oganizations are hit at their bottom line, they have to take actions. I think everyone gets that. But, in the case of the Buffalo Bills, this seems more like a move that is made by a company on life-support...acting as if they don't expect to be making their money again, any time soon. Seriously, how much money could the Buffalo Bills have lost between March and May? They have are likely paying less for operating expenses, have already cut all of their employee salaries and not so much as a penny has been spent, outside of what should have already been anticipated and budgeted for employee salaries. Sure, they have not likely sold many, if any, season tickets yet...but if they can't absorb that, this early in the game, they are in worse trouble than I could have thought. Edited May 25, 2011 by Buftex
Saint Doug Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If the players are restraining from spending their money, it only makes sense that the owners do so too, especially since their TV money is being help captive. And besides, everyone is still getting paid as before. Maybe the article is wrong, but Bills only suspended their program to participate in paying into employees 401(k) plans. This is not money that one can normally access anyway, it's retirement money. So, no one is suffering any lapse in cash flow. In fact, they're lucky for not being outright laid-off, which is what any real-world company would do. In fact, in recent times, many companies have opted-out of matching or at least contributing to employees 401(k)'s. I know my employer no longer does. Cry me a river.
Buftex Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If the players are restraining from spending their money, it only makes sense that the owners do so too, especially since their TV money is being help captive. And besides, everyone is still getting paid as before. Maybe the article is wrong, but Bills only suspended their program to participate in paying into employees 401(k) plans. This is not money that one can normally access anyway, it's retirement money. So, no one is suffering any lapse in cash flow. In fact, they're lucky for not being outright laid-off, which is what any real-world company would do. In fact, in recent times, many companies have opted-out of matching or at least contributing to employees 401(k)'s. I know my employer no longer does. Cry me a river. Actually, the Bills have already cut employee salaries, for the duration of the owners' lockout. It may not be wrong for them to cut 401K and pension benefits, but it sure seems classless. The Bills, I would guess, are spending less money over the last three months than they would have been, have already cut salaries, and are now taking away this too? It seems like a very miserly business decision, designed to take advantage of a self imposed problem. The coaches are under contract, they can't go work for someone else while the lockout is in effect...why punish them? Perhaps other owners will follow suit, but it is kind of telling that Ralph Wilson is the first to make such an extreme move.
BuffaloRebound Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Actually, the Bills have already cut employee salaries, for the duration of the owners' lockout. It may not be wrong for them to cut 401K and pension benefits, but it sure seems classless. The Bills, I would guess, are spending less money over the last three months than they would have been, have already cut salaries, and are now taking away this too? It seems like a very miserly business decision, designed to take advantage of a self imposed problem. The coaches are under contract, they can't go work for someone else while the lockout is in effect...why punish them? Perhaps other owners will follow suit, but it is kind of telling that Ralph Wilson is the first to make such an extreme move. Pretty indefensible move by Ralph and not sure how anyone can defend him on this. I could understand if the lockout was in month 9 and games were lost, but month 2? What revenues have the Bills lost?
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) I think everyone gets that. But, in the case of the Buffalo Bills, this seems more like a move that is made by a company on life-support...acting as if they don't expect to be making their money again, any time soon. Seriously, how much money could the Buffalo Bills have lost between March and May? They have are likely paying less for operating expenses, have already cut all of their employee salaries and not so much as a penny has been spent, outside of what should have already been anticipated and budgeted for employee salaries. Sure, they have not likely sold many, if any, season tickets yet...but if they can't absorb that, this early in the game, they are in worse trouble than I could have thought. Pretty indefensible move by Ralph and not sure how anyone can defend him on this. I could understand if the lockout was in month 9 and games were lost, but month 2? What revenues have the Bills lost? If you wait until games are actually missed you won't have time to make up the losses from those games before year end. They're being proactive and budgeting for a loss of games/revenue. You can add money into the pension later if need be, but you're not going to get back what you've already given. The employees can still save money in their 401k for themselves, the Bills just arent matching it, which is something that not many companies do anymore anyway. Edited May 25, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson
KD in CA Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Suspending company matching into the 401k is one of the first things to go when its time to cut costs because it's a way to reduce payroll without cutting more jobs. It happened to tens of millions of people in the past few years. We did it in 2009 and just reinstated it this year. If we had not eliminated the match at that time, two additional jobs would have been eliminated.
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