Defend Greece Posted May 22, 2011 Author Posted May 22, 2011 Okay kelsay lovers, yeah he played most of the season at a new position, Fine i get that, But if you watched him he was horrible and im not talking about in coverage i am talking about bighting on every draw, playactio and counter. Go dial up some of the games and watch how many long plays and third down conversions start by going right around him. I watched every snap and this guy stinks. He had one good game which is more than maybin but they both suck
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 You obviously gave some thought to how these five played or did not live up to expectations! I almost stopped reading this because of all the Kelsay hate (is it because of the contract that none of us are paying?); Kelsay is not a linebacker but when he returned to the DE position he his play improved and he contributed to the team. He is a team leader who on a good team would be a role player worth having. My only change in your list would be to put Green up in the number five spot ... yes, most of us assumed he would not be worth his pay but still he was being given the chance to be the 'old leader' with many of the younger guys talking about him as Gramps (someone they could depend on rather than being feeble enough to wear them). Nelson has that migraine issue that sadly will probably keep him from ever developing into a decent player. Because of his health issue I would not list him amongst the worse performers. The good news on your list is that Byrd seemed to be playing better the last 3 or 4 games so maybe he has shaken the sophomore jinx and Gailey has had an entire off season to figure out how to use CJ and I expect he will be a weapon this year. And, yes sympathy and prayers for Maybin but I really don't think he'll ever have an impact but we can always hope.! Yeah, the Kelsay hate around here is beyond ridiculous IMO. Like most, I don't agree with what he is being paid, but at the same time he is a solid role player for this team and a good presence in the locker room. He is a good rotational player, not the guy I want starting every game, but a solid 2nd unit player...and on a team devoid of depth at so many places, that has good value for this team. Can not argue with you suggesting Green be actually on the list at #5 instead of Nelson, I almost put him there myself. The guy was just terrible. I understand Nelson has the migraines, but it was his suspension and inability to get on the field when he wasn't suffering from the migraines that was the deciding factor for me given his potential in this style of offense. In truth, I could swap Green in for Byrd or Spiller too, Green certainly had the worst season out of the 3 of them, but expectations were just so much higher for Byrd and CJ that I felt their season was more of a failure than Green who had low expectations from the get go (although he managed to still play far below even those low expectations, lol). Like you said, Byrd seemed to improve a little late in the season, so that was positive a sign. I am still very high on CJ and think with a year under his belt, no confusing RB depth chart, and the extra time for Gailey to figure out how to integrate him better that he will bounce back with a strong sophomore year. I still like Byrd too and feel like he can bounce back. I think a large part of the short comings of our safeties last year was the ineptness of our front seven, and I believe Dareus plus a healthy Merriman as well as some of the other pieces we added will go along way towards a bounce back year for him. But this list was on last years performance, not this years potential.
papazoid Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 how has McCargo escaped this discussion ? HORRIBLE :seeing as i can only name 5...... John McCargo Arron Maybin Trent Edwards James Hardy Cornell Green players like Stroud, Kelsay, were NOT horrible.....maybe "not so good".....but not horrible.
K Gun Special Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Yeah, the Kelsay hate around here is beyond ridiculous IMO. Like most, I don't agree with what he is being paid, but at the same time he is a solid role player for this team and a good presence in the locker room. He is a good rotational player, not the guy I want starting every game, but a solid 2nd unit player...and on a team devoid of depth at so many places, that has good value for this team. Can not argue with you suggesting Green be actually on the list at #5 instead of Nelson, I almost put him there myself. The guy was just terrible. I understand Nelson has the migraines, but it was his suspension and inability to get on the field when he wasn't suffering from the migraines that was the deciding factor for me given his potential in this style of offense. In truth, I could swap Green in for Byrd or Spiller too, Green certainly had the worst season out of the 3 of them, but expectations were just so much higher for Byrd and CJ that I felt their season was more of a failure than Green who had low expectations from the get go (although he managed to still play far below even those low expectations, lol). Like you said, Byrd seemed to improve a little late in the season, so that was positive a sign. I am still very high on CJ and think with a year under his belt, no confusing RB depth chart, and the extra time for Gailey to figure out how to integrate him better that he will bounce back with a strong sophomore year. I still like Byrd too and feel like he can bounce back. I think a large part of the short comings of our safeties last year was the ineptness of our front seven, and I believe Dareus plus a healthy Merriman as well as some of the other pieces we added will go along way towards a bounce back year for him. But this list was on last years performance, not this years potential. Byrd has always struggled with coverage, he is not going to become a pro bowl safety. His INTs two years ago were on terrible throws, go back and watch. He was in the right place to catch balls, its not like he was making great plays. I think he can be a solid starter but i think we are putting too much stock into him bc of the INTs and not critically evaluating his coverage skills, which is far more important.
Defend Greece Posted May 22, 2011 Author Posted May 22, 2011 Byrd has always struggled with coverage, he is not going to become a pro bowl safety. His INTs two years ago were on terrible throws, go back and watch. He was in the right place to catch balls, its not like he was making great plays. I think he can be a solid starter but i think we are putting too much stock into him bc of the INTs and not critically evaluating his coverage skills, which is far more important. Ummmm he has already been to a probowl and he created more turnovers than Anyone else. He also had a pick six and played in the box alot more. Yeah his interceptions were lucky but atleast if he gets his hand on the ball he catches it Which is more rhan you can say for Mckelvin, corner, and whitner
K Gun Special Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Ummmm he has already been to a probowl and he created more turnovers than Anyone else. He also had a pick six and played in the box alot more. Yeah his interceptions were lucky but atleast if he gets his hand on the ball he catches it Which is more rhan you can say for Mckelvin, corner, and whitner Yes he did go to one, based on those INTs, it was a great season. He will never live up to that again, he simply isnt that good. Like i said he's a solid starter nothing more.
Defend Greece Posted May 22, 2011 Author Posted May 22, 2011 Roger that, he shouldnt be anywhere on a list of bad players though
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Yes he did go to one, based on those INTs, it was a great season. He will never live up to that again, he simply isnt that good. Like i said he's a solid starter nothing more. How can you be so sure of this? With an improved run defense in front of him, he could be freed up to play "center field" a bit more this season, and hence play to his strength. Byrd (IMO) is one of those players that has an innate ability to anticipate where the ball is going....and catch it.
T master Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 1. / 2. / 3. / 4. / 5. -Maybin. He is a man without a position, he really doesn't fit anywhere in the NFL. I cannot see why we prop him up when he has already flopped at 5 or more specific positions (Including Special teams). What exactly are the 5 positions ??? I'm not a big Maybin fan never have been since i saw his BS reaction the day we drafted him & how cocky he was in his interviews , but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt . I know he flopped as a OLB & special teams but what are the other 3 ????
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 how has McCargo escaped this discussion ? HORRIBLE :seeing as i can only name 5...... John McCargo Arron Maybin Trent Edwards James Hardy Cornell Green players like Stroud, Kelsay, were NOT horrible.....maybe "not so good".....but not horrible. Did McCargo even make a game day roster? This should be a prerequisite before being deemed one of the worst players in a given season. How can we say he was horrible if he never even sniffed the playing field?
Defend Greece Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 Did McCargo even make a game day roster? This should be a prerequisite before being deemed one of the worst players in a given season. How can we say he was horrible if he never even sniffed the playing field? Yeah he played
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Yeah he played Oh yeah...how could I have forgotten. He appeared in one game, making one tackle. I must have been taking a piss and missed it. Roger that, he shouldnt be anywhere on a list of bad players though +1
Defend Greece Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 Understand the perception because there were a few times when we needed him to boom one and he did not. I recall he was frustrated by this as well. Punting in Buffalo is difficult, as is punting in the AFCE. There were only 6 other punters with more attempts. Both of these factors will adversely effect a punting average from scrimmage. If you look ONLY at punting average then yes, Moorman was near the bottom of the league. Then look at inside the 20, inside the 10, return yards, touchbacks, and fair cathces and he is ranked in the upper 25% in all categories. He still had great hang time, and there were no long returns or blocks on him. Just about every veteran on our defense (except Kyle Williams and Drayton Florence) has a worse year than Moorman. Look at Spiller and Evans on offense and you can talk about underwhelming performances. Throw in Trent Edwards, Marshawn Lynch, Cornell Green, and the entire cast of TE's. Yeah roger that i think moorman is our player of the decade. He punted out of the endzone quit a few times and didnt get blocked. Also he is the most athletic punter in the nfl and is always a threat To run with his great speed, or throw (though not as much with denney Gone) Moormans name should not be on a list of the 20 worst bills
Meathead Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 haters zero in on a player and filter everything they see through their hate out of five plays a guy could have one good one, three average ones, and one bad one, and the hater will ONLY remember the bad one every player in the league looks bad on some plays. if you fixate on your hate then thats the only one you play back in your mind over and over and over again. so to you that guy really does suck because thats all you let yourself see and when the team stinks, or even when they dont stink but didnt get the job done as expected, haters simply must find an outlet for their hate. they focus on it, obsess about it, and let it fester, taking it all the way to running a guy out of town two words: reuben brown and glenn parker and ronnie harmon and london fletcher guys who became the local focus of fan hatred, then went on to have some pretty glorious success elsewhere even after they had already had success here but no matter when i or anyone says, you will do it again and again and again and again and again. its not fair, its not rational. but you will do it again and again and again and again haters gotta hate
Meathead Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 with that said, cornell green sucked. really really bad but interestingly, fans often do it in reverse, too. jarius byrd. i liked the guy reasonably well enough, but cmon, he musta had a horseshoe shoved up his butt with four leaf clovers glued to his weiner to get the kind of beachballs fluttering to him over and over and over again like he did 'oh hes a playmaker' 'oh he just has a nose for the ball' 'oh it cant be all luck when it happens nine times' oh no? hey he might be a playmaker too, but playmakers dont make footballs hover like tiny alien spacecrafts fluttering gently right into your hands after his phenomenal rookie season pick-wise, mh pointed out that safeties that get a lot of picks one season virtually always rebound hard the next season. mh predicted even tho byrd would likely play a ton more his sophomore season he would still only get two picks that year, much to the dismay and ridicule of fan experts. well youre right, mh was wrong, byrd didnt get two picks, he got one. and dont try to give me any 'they didnt throw to him' crap, you dont do that with safeties no, byrd was never as good as the gushers had him after one season. but just as haters gotta hate, hero lovers need their heros. oh yeah hes gonna be awesome. hes gonna pick of five, six, seven balls every season. he just knows where to be instinctively. hes like the alien and predator of safety interceptions. hes a mystical ball hawk. oh yeah, byrdman flying through the sky making footballs float in midair like magic oooo dont try to say you didnt do it
Defend Greece Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) with that said, cornell green sucked. really really bad but interestingly, fans often do it in reverse, too. jarius byrd. i liked the guy reasonably well enough, but cmon, he musta had a horseshoe shoved up his butt with four leaf clovers glued to his weiner to get the kind of beachballs fluttering to him over and over and over again like he did 'oh hes a playmaker' 'oh he just has a nose for the ball' 'oh it cant be all luck when it happens nine times' oh no? hey he might be a playmaker too, but playmakers dont make footballs hover like tiny alien spacecrafts fluttering gently right into your hands after his phenomenal rookie season pick-wise, mh pointed out that safeties that get a lot of picks one season virtually always rebound hard the next season. mh predicted even tho byrd would likely play a ton more his sophomore season he would still only get two picks that year, much to the dismay and ridicule of fan experts. well youre right, mh was wrong, byrd didnt get two picks, he got one. and dont try to give me any 'they didnt throw to him' crap, you dont do that with safeties no, byrd was never as good as the gushers had him after one season. but just as haters gotta hate, hero lovers need their heros. oh yeah hes gonna be awesome. hes gonna pick of five, six, seven balls every season. he just knows where to be instinctively. hes like the alien and predator of safety interceptions. hes a mystical ball hawk. oh yeah, byrdman flying through the sky making footballs float in midair like magic oooo dont try to say you didnt do it Dude really? He is a playmaker. Period. He sidnt have 9 picks but he had some good forced fumbles. Look at the browns game when he stayed planted on hillis and popped the ball out. Look at the read on the pick six or when he just grabbed the ball right out of the hands of someone on the steelers(dont recall who it was off the top of my head, mendenhall?) anyways Then go watch how many ints mckelvin dropped. Byrd had success because he caught what he was suppose to catch. Thats more than alot of db's. So lets take his two year averages then to see what kind of player we have. 67 tackles, .5 sack, 5 picks, 1.5 ff. I will take it any day Edited May 23, 2011 by Defend Greece
Defend Greece Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 Last years worst performers: My list is based on expectations for each player and how they performed in relation to those expectations. 1. Trent Edwards - Easily the top of this list. His performance was pathetic, and he was the QB, enough said 2. Aaron Maybin - There is more insight into his season with the death of his infant son, which is beyond tragic, and my sympathy goes out to him. However, the fact he could not even get on the field on a team hurting at LB is beyond dissapointing. I still hold out hope that this year with a clear head, a year under his belt in the system, and Merriman tutoring him that he can find a way to contribute as part of the regular rotation, or even become an impact starter. Long shot it is, but the kid had some pretty big challenges in his first two years with the hold out and being too small for DE his rookie year, then the death of his infant son to start the second season. 3. Jairus Byrd - This kid was not the worst player, but his sophomore season was a far cry from his rookie year. He did not show the same ball skills and was more a liability in coverage than a INT threat. Based on what he did as a rookie, his second season was a major disappointment. I didn't expect the same INT total, but I did expect him to be good in coverage and a factor in the passing game, which he was not. 4. CJ Spiller - This kid was the most electrifying player in preseason leading the NFL in yards and scores despite missing part of camp and the first preseason game. It wasn't just that he produced either, it was how he produced with the electrifying plays that really set the bar high. Then we all know what happened when the reg season came. Part of it was he couldnt get on the field enough as coaches decided to roll with Lynch early and then FJ the rest of the year due in large part to the liability Spiller was in the passing game and how often we passed. Based on being the #9 pick, lighting up preseason, and even being tabbed the starter week 1 due to circumstances, his season was a real let down. I am still very high on this kid, an no he was not the worst player last year, but again, but my list is more about the worst performance based on what was expected from each one. 5. Shaun Nelson - Here is a guy that should fit perfectly into what Gailey does. Gailey doesn't use TE's traditionally, and even rolled with WR's at TE most of the year. And Nelson is essentially a WR who plays TE...this guy should have been a weapon last year we could have used, yet he really dissapointed. His suspension and inability to get on the field was a big let down to the potential this kid had in this offense. Honorable Mention: Cornell Green - Probably had the worst season of any Bill, but I did not expect him to be good in the first place, so wasn't much of a surprise to me. These guys above had much higher expectations and failed almost as bad, so that's the only reason I left Green off. But mark my words, Green is absolutely terrible, at least last year he was. There were worse players on this team, but they also did not have lofty expectations either and were not expected to be much worse than they were. These were the bigger disappointments IMO and these guys (that are still on the team) need to step up this year. How did you manage Byrd ahead of kelsay
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