Stopping the run

[ganesh]

There has been a few threads about our DL and LB discussing about Dareus and Kelsay.

 

We were 32nd in the league against the run, allowing 6-7 200 yard games. Who do you think was responsible for the mess. We had a guy anchoring the line and went to the Pro-Bowl and yet we couldn't stop the run. Was it all Marcus Stroud's fault or Spencers fault etc.

 

What makes you feel that the run will improve with the addition of two rookies to the DL and the LBcorps.

 

If the front seven sucked overall (poor communication, mis-coummunication etc). then I put the blame more on the Coaching staff for not putting them in a position to make plays (Simplified game plans??).

 

Where was the real issue and how do we fix it going into this season?

[LGB]

There has been a few threads about our DL and LB discussing about Dareus and Kelsay.

 

We were 32nd in the league against the run, allowing 6-7 200 yard games. Who do you think was responsible for the mess. We had a guy anchoring the line and went to the Pro-Bowl and yet we couldn't stop the run. Was it all Marcus Stroud's fault or Spencers fault etc.

 

What makes you feel that the run will improve with the addition of two rookies to the DL and the LBcorps.

 

If the front seven sucked overall (poor communication, mis-coummunication etc). then I put the blame more on the Coaching staff for not putting them in a position to make plays (Simplified game plans??).

 

Where was the real issue and how do we fix it going into this season?

 

Bad DL & LBs and only one person that even when double-teamed could occasionally make a play in Williams puts you near or last against the run.

 

This is nothing new...as the Bills have been among the worst at defending the run ever since Pat Williams went to the Vikes.

 

 

What is different this year?

 

Maybe some players more determined and skilled than Maybust or MaCargo-bust - plus Dave Wannstedt should help.

 

prediction: last in the league to maybe 24th against the run.

[BillsVet]

No play sums up how badly Buffalo was versus the run last season that this one:

 

Peterson 43 yard run

 

Players out of their gaps, LB's misdiagnosing, and DB's taking bad angles. Of course, it doesn't help when the team decides to go 3-4 and ends up playing more 4-3 by season's end. Some teams can make the transition to 3-4 from 4-3, but the Bills were set up to fail, especially when you bank on having Chris Kelsay and Marcus Stroud playing the strong-side in your new base.

[Defend Greece]

Dude kelsay was HORRIBLE.

I found myself watching him for entire games because i noticed he kept bighting on draws and counters.

He never held contain and often was let right through the line on counters and draws and the tackle would go grab the linebacker.

Stroud was bad too as was carrington but kelsay was AWFUL

[LGB]

No play sums up how badly Buffalo was versus the run last season that this one:

 

Peterson 43 yard run

 

Players out of their gaps, LB's misdiagnosing, and DB's taking bad angles. Of course, it doesn't help when the team decides to go 3-4 and ends up playing more 4-3 by season's end. Some teams can make the transition to 3-4 from 4-3, but the Bills were set up to fail, especially when you bank on having Chris Kelsay and Marcus Stroud playing the strong-side in your new base.

"Adrian Peterson bounces to the outside and sprints 43 yards for a TD in the fourth quarter vs. the Bills"

 

C'mon he was just jogging past Kelsay and and the rest of the Bills...

 

I get that Kelsay is a stand up guy and the kind of player you want in your locker room, but he really did look more clue-less than helpful in most of his playing time last year trying to be an OLB.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

No play sums up how badly Buffalo was versus the run last season that this one:

 

Peterson 43 yard run

 

Players out of their gaps, LB's misdiagnosing, and DB's taking bad angles. Of course, it doesn't help when the team decides to go 3-4 and ends up playing more 4-3 by season's end. Some teams can make the transition to 3-4 from 4-3, but the Bills were set up to fail, especially when you bank on having Chris Kelsay and Marcus Stroud playing the strong-side in your new base.

 

That play was all Poz having a brain fart.

[thewildrabbit]

No play sums up how badly Buffalo was versus the run last season that this one:

 

Peterson 43 yard run

 

Players out of their gaps, LB's misdiagnosing, and DB's taking bad angles. Of course, it doesn't help when the team decides to go 3-4 and ends up playing more 4-3 by season's end. Some teams can make the transition to 3-4 from 4-3, but the Bills were set up to fail, especially when you bank on having Chris Kelsay and Marcus Stroud playing the strong-side in your new base.

No discipline, bad coaching and even worse defensive calls.... lets face it the coaching staff didn't improve at all last year on the defensive side of the ball.

 

Bills fans will find out early if anything has changed this year when the Bills play the KC Chiefs in the season opener at Arrowhead, last year game 9, J. Charles had 177 rushing yards on his own and 61 yards receiving, Jones had 77 yards rushing, total 274 yards rushing for the Chiefs against Buffalo

Edited May 19, 2011 by Harvey lives

[ganesh]

So far I have seen:

 

1. Kelsay is horrible

2. Poz bites on plays and has a horrible brain cramp

3. Very Ill-disciplined and not sticking to their gap assignments

4. Bad coaching staff, didn't elevate their level of coaching, game planning

 

 

Kelsay and Poz (if re-signed) are going to be starters or have huge playing time.

 

3 &4 both point to the Coaching staff either not having the respect of the players or poor at imparting the stuff to the players.

 

I think that is a big reason why we were dead last in the NFL...Maybin and McCargo don't even come in to the "Complaint Box" because they never even saw the field.

 

I am very worried about the coaching staff..I wish the Bills had just flat out hired Dave Wannestedt to run the defense. He will bring instant credibility to the players.

[billsfan89]

We had a terrible 4-3 run D, we tried to shoehorn into a 3-4 D. To help this transition we drafted 2 rookies in round 2 and 3 who didn't quite make an impact. We signed a couple of veteran free agents in Andra Davis and Dwan Edwards both of who got hurt. Moats was the only player added that actually helped the D.

 

Throw in the fact that this team was changing systems which has growing pains in its first year for most teams and yeah it wasn't looking good.

 

Kyle Williams was a stud. Poz was OK when he was on the field. While Moats was the only player who played well. Other than that the team had talent that either wasn't right in the system or got hurt or was old.

 

Stroud terrible, Kelsay sub par 4-3 player terrible 3-4 player, Carrington and Troup failed to make an impact (Although they did a little towards the end), Spencer Johnson not in the right scheme, McCargo and Maybin sucked in a 4-3 and they sucked in a 3-4, Andra Davis was old and hurt, Akin Ayodele was mediocre, and Dwan Edwards and Poz were hurt.

 

When you dissect it piece by piece the D was a Tampa 2 soft D with a Very good DT trying to transition to a 3-4 poorly. Now hopefully Dareus makes an impact and controls the edge. Sheppard can play competent at MLB, Troup and Carrington add depth to the D-line, Merriman stays somewhat healthy and provides an impact, Moats progresses, and Nix finds some quality depth pieces in free agency.

 

I don't think we will be a good run D but it will be improved ranking somewhere between 22-18. I think we just don't have the LB's quite yet.

[reddogblitz]

I am very worried about the coaching staff..I wish the Bills had just flat out hired Dave Wannestedt to run the defense. He will bring instant credibility to the players.

I don't understand why "Coach" Edwards was not flat out fired after the last game. I truly hope Dave W is going to have some real say on how the D is run and not just coach ILBs and help Coach Gailey run practice. I too wish we had just made him DC and turned him loose. Keeping "Coach" Edwards on staff makes no sense to me.

[John from Riverside]

Why do people feel the need to attack Carrington for last years debocle? He was played very little and shouldnt be blamed for the mess.......

 

Towards the end of the year when he actually got real playing time he was improving quickly

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Agree. Carrington, Troup get passes from me - i don't fault rookies for the abysmal defense last year. Guys like Poz and Kelsay however? No excuse. Poz is a marginal pro linebacker and Kelsay should be in the CFL.

[....lybob]

The Bills had a lot of bad players on defense but I'm going to focus on two of our better players- Kyle Williams is a great penetrating DT but he doesn't keep the OL off the LBs and POZ is ok but he's a little undersized and doesn't shed blockers very well- while they are good or at least OK separately they really suck together- If you like Williams in the middle you really want bigger more physical ILBs, if you want to keep POZ as a ILB you need a more traditional NT. The other problem which I think the Bills have corrected pretty well already is depth on the DL the Giants can come at you in waves and I think that is the way to go. Lastly I'm wishing for less 3 downs and punts and keeping the defense off the field for longer periods.

[Bangarang]

We had a terrible 4-3 run D, we tried to shoehorn into a 3-4 D. To help this transition we drafted 2 rookies in round 2 and 3 who didn't quite make an impact. We signed a couple of veteran free agents in Andra Davis and Dwan Edwards both of who got hurt. Moats was the only player added that actually helped the D.

 

 

No he didn't. He was absolutely terrible in coverage. He was absolutely terrible against the run. Couldn't seal the edge. That's not helping the defense.

[LGB]

So far I have seen:

 

1. Kelsay is horrible

2. Poz bites on plays and has a horrible brain cramp

3. Very Ill-disciplined and not sticking to their gap assignments

4. Bad coaching staff, didn't elevate their level of coaching, game planning

 

 

Kelsay and Poz (if re-signed) are going to be starters or have huge playing time.

 

3 &4 both point to the Coaching staff either not having the respect of the players or poor at imparting the stuff to the players.

 

I think that is a big reason why we were dead last in the NFL...Maybin and McCargo don't even come in to the "Complaint Box" because they never even saw the field.

 

I am very worried about the coaching staff..I wish the Bills had just flat out hired Dave Wannestedt to run the defense. He will bring instant credibility to the players.

 

Maybin and McCargo are in the complaint box because they were first round picks that are flat-out just eating up roster spots and this is a major problem with defense right now.

 

The fact that high draft picks have not contributed like high draft picks should (with all that high draft pick money thrown at them) has been a systemic problem of the Buffalo Bills and their ability to evaluate/train/coach talent.

 

At some point the Bills need to take advantage of their long run of less than .500 seasons that has put them closer to the top in draft order and Marcell Dareus looks to be the right medicine in this department.

[Dorkington]

So basically the answer is....

 

The Bills suck at stopping the run because the Bills suck.

 

There you go.

[Nanker]

I'm glad we got Dareus. He's a Chanix kind of guy. So are Shepherd and White. I'm hoping Jasper gets some playing time too so he can develop.

 

 

Last year Stroud was as strong as, Kelsay was as mobile as, and Poz was smart as a turd, and the secondary held Chinese fire drills routinely during the course of any given game.

[Turbosrrgood]

There has been a few threads about our DL and LB discussing about Dareus and Kelsay.

 

We were 32nd in the league against the run, allowing 6-7 200 yard games. Who do you think was responsible for the mess. We had a guy anchoring the line and went to the Pro-Bowl and yet we couldn't stop the run. Was it all Marcus Stroud's fault or Spencers fault etc.

 

What makes you feel that the run will improve with the addition of two rookies to the DL and the LBcorps.

 

If the front seven sucked overall (poor communication, mis-coummunication etc). then I put the blame more on the Coaching staff for not putting them in a position to make plays (Simplified game plans??).

 

Where was the real issue and how do we fix it going into this season?

 

As much as we all like Kyle Williams, he was far from "Anchoring the line". Kyle has a tremendous motor, and is an excellent pass rushing and penetrating tackle....But he is simply too small to be an effective 3-4 NT, its just not what he does...He can't plug up the middle when teams run straight ahead, it led to teams getting 5 yards on almost every rushing play and especially 3rd downs.

 

I am not blaming Williams for the Bills D, he was one of, if not THE, best player on the team. The problem is he shouldn't be playing that position. The fact that we had NO good LB's last year, mean't we couldn't get away with it.

 

Honestly though, I put most of the blame on Edwards (D coordinator). This guy was awful with Miami, who had one of the worst 3-4 defenses in the league with him. For those who hate Kelsey, blame Edwards (and Nix). Kelsey is a pure 4-3 DE (and a decent one), but another guy who was playing out of position. He should not be an OLB. Then you have guys like Stroud, overrated and past their prime...not to mention AGAIN being forced to play a position he was not meant for. POZ? again, not his position, he is NOT a 3-4 LB.

 

When the Bill D finally started mixing in 4-3 defenses, and guys could play their natural positions (Williams, Stroud, Kelsey)..They actually looked pretty good. Hopefully with Wannstedt here now we see more of that, and less of Edwards's mess of defense.

 

The guys that we had that were actually playing THEIR position, were just plain bad. Dwan Edwards did almost nothing the entire season except get pushed arround. Our young guys Troupe (Who is overrated and was picked WAY too early), and Carrington rarely even saw the field. Edwards brought his garbage from Maimi (Ayodele, he was bad enough with Maimi, and was AWFUL with the Bills). Davis used to be decent, but he's old and past his prime. Merriman...Oh thats right, he never played....Torbor, I never understood why anyone EVER though this guy was good. He was a weak link on the giants...

 

Wow, what a mess.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[nucci]

So far I have seen:

 

1. Kelsay is horrible

2. Poz bites on plays and has a horrible brain cramp

3. Very Ill-disciplined and not sticking to their gap assignments

4. Bad coaching staff, didn't elevate their level of coaching, game planning

 

 

Kelsay and Poz (if re-signed) are going to be starters or have huge playing time.

 

3 &4 both point to the Coaching staff either not having the respect of the players or poor at imparting the stuff to the players.

 

I think that is a big reason why we were dead last in the NFL...Maybin and McCargo don't even come in to the "Complaint Box" because they never even saw the field.

 

I am very worried about the coaching staff..I wish the Bills had just flat out hired Dave Wannestedt to run the defense. He will bring instant credibility to the players.

Being 1st round picks and never seeing the field should put them at the top of the complaint box!!

[Rockinon]

No play sums up how badly Buffalo was versus the run last season that this one:

 

Peterson 43 yard run

 

Players out of their gaps, LB's misdiagnosing, and DB's taking bad angles. Of course, it doesn't help when the team decides to go 3-4 and ends up playing more 4-3 by season's end. Some teams can make the transition to 3-4 from 4-3, but the Bills were set up to fail, especially when you bank on having Chris Kelsay and Marcus Stroud playing the strong-side in your new base.

That is what I noticed. Everyone one defense is responsible for stopping the run and there were no innocents here. People tend to popularly blame DBs, the linebackers or the linememen but everyone seriously looked lost out there. Wannstedt was brought in because of this. This defense had some talent but I seriously think that people just did not know their responsibility within the scheme. Add that the scheme was very much in flux because nothing seemed to work and it was very hard for them to put together a cohesive unit. Remember this was a 4-3 defense for many years. That defense was a part of their mental make-up and then last year that all changed. Some teams make the change quick. Buffalo obviously did not.