Rockinon Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 A few things - Stats are for losers (not calling you a loser) - Results are reflective of the TEAM.....you know...its a team game? Much like when a receiver drops a ball that hits him right in the mits or a running back misses his block forcing Fitz to throw early or move out of the pocket...you know? Stuff like that - Nice of you to chop a piece out of my post.....it makes it so much better of an arguement for you Look....put aside the friggen numbers for just a second please? The bottom line is WILL THESE OTHER PLAYERS PLAY FOR FITZ? He leads by example....he doesnt throw his team under the bus and admits when he made a mistake......he is a gutsy player who takes chances.....he puts his body on the line......and when you hear the rest of this of the offensive players talk they dont want anybody but Fitz behind center......he is the very definition of LEADER And since we dont have a Tom Brady or Payton Manning on the roster.....why not get behind the guy? What choice do you have? Well put. I'm afraid I just don't have your patience though.
thebandit27 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 The grade is poor, but some of the percentages show exactly what Fitz is/does. He has a low completion percentage when facing pressure, but also has one of the lowest sack percentages on the table. Also, his interception % when facing pressure is middle of the pack compared with other QBs. This tells me Fitz gets the ball out when pressured without taking a loss and without creating turnovers. He makes the smart play and lives for another down. I think these numbers show exactly what we thought of Fitz, he's an average QB with great intelligence. Totally agree with this...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) A few things - Stats are for losers (not calling you a loser) - Results are reflective of the TEAM.....you know...its a team game? Much like when a receiver drops a ball that hits him right in the mits or a running back misses his block forcing Fitz to throw early or move out of the pocket...you know? Stuff like that - Nice of you to chop a piece out of my post.....it makes it so much better of an arguement for you Look....put aside the friggen numbers for just a second please? The bottom line is WILL THESE OTHER PLAYERS PLAY FOR FITZ? He leads by example....he doesnt throw his team under the bus and admits when he made a mistake......he is a gutsy player who takes chances.....he puts his body on the line......and when you hear the rest of this of the offensive players talk they dont want anybody but Fitz behind center......he is the very definition of LEADER And since we dont have a Tom Brady or Payton Manning on the roster.....why not get behind the guy? What choice do you have? Trust me, I know and respect all those points...but, not all stats are for losers (and its a pretty week argument to say stats are for losers to dismiss the stats that factually disprove your argument), and the results I referred to were not the team results but Fitz's personal results as you said "Fitz" is "great" under pressure...and the results and stats both say otherwise. Not all stats prove this or that, but there are many stats that are important indicators of a players effectiveness overall or in given situations. Clearly, the stats are plain as day that he is not good under pressure, but above and beyond that, he did not deliver when the pressure was on. We lost games on his arm this year with critical turnovers, even game ending turnovers, and drive ending missed passes. So, results and stats both say he is not "great" under pressure. That is the point. I hope he comes out strong this year, but this discussion is not about next year, its about last year, and last year your claim of him being "great" under pressure has no factual basis other than you just saying it. I am behind the guy, I will root for him every weekend, but that doesn't change my opinion on how he played this past season. Because I am not satisfied with his past performance does not mean I hate the guy or won't root for him. He is a leader out there, he plays with guts, and I love that. But his individual performance was not good enough for me to say we are set at QB. Edited May 16, 2011 by Alphadawg7
ETD66SS Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Fitz sucks and he will prove it to everyone this season. If there happens to be a season...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 To be fair, they gave their endorsement to Trent year and look how that turned out. right but also recall how terrible we looked with Trent to at least putting up a competitive team and a resemblance of an offense when he was gone!
silvermike Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 What's interesting from those numbers is that Fitz isn't one of the most pressured QBs in the league. He's 16th out of 34 rated QBs - almost exactly in the middle (drop Kolb and Romo to get one QB per team, and he's 16th of 32.) Our line is actually not doing a terrible job keeping rushers off the QB.
DanInUticaTampa Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 BREAKING NEWS: In the NFL QB's will be facing pressure a lot because thats what defenses do. If your QB can't handle that, then thats a problem. Then it looks like the Jests wasted a bunch of picks on sanchez and the bills just wasted some cash on Fitz, who is better under pressure than sanchez. Bills are lookin smarter than the jests already!
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 What's interesting from those numbers is that Fitz isn't one of the most pressured QBs in the league. He's 16th out of 34 rated QBs - almost exactly in the middle (drop Kolb and Romo to get one QB per team, and he's 16th of 32.) Our line is actually not doing a terrible job keeping rushers off the QB. More likely Fitz gets the ball out on time before the pressure has a chance to develop. Remember how the O-line looked ineffective in pass pro when the other QBs were playing last year… they're not a horrible pass pro unit but probably somewhere in the middle, IMO.
Rockinon Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 To be fair, they gave their endorsement to Trent year and look how that turned out. They got rid of Trent very soon after seeing how he played in regular season games under real fire. After seeing what Fitz did with the remainder of the season, the majority of the season, they still give him a ringing endorsement. And if you had followed training camp, and seen Trent beat out the competition while playing in shorts, you might have done the same. In all honesty, I think they got rid of TE pretty quick.
Ramius Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 A few things - Stats are for losers (not calling you a loser) Its funny how the only time people use this line is when the stats disprove what point they are trying to make. I'm actually on your side in the Fitz argument john, but statements like that really weaken your argument.
silvermike Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 More likely Fitz gets the ball out on time before the pressure has a chance to develop. Remember how the O-line looked ineffective in pass pro when the other QBs were playing last year… they're not a horrible pass pro unit but probably somewhere in the middle, IMO. That's a good point. Some combination of the line, the QB, and the coaches is improving the passing game, anyway. Let's hope that when everybody's health, and with a full training camp together as starters, we can start seeing that as a team strength.
McD Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Kelly on this team last year would have made us a playoff team assuming the games unfolded in similar fashion. I think we beat Mia (first game), Balt, KC, Chi, NE (first one), Jax, Pitt based on the games being in similar style. Yes, SJ kept us from getting a win under Fitz against Pitt, but there were other opportunities in that game to win it in regulation too that I think Kelly leads us to preventing us from being in OT in the first place. You're on crack. First things first. Fitz did enough to beat Balt, how was it his fault we fumbled in Balt territory? Fitz did enough to beat KC, Lindell just couldn't kick the damned FG twice. He did plenty to beat Pitt... And I agree he would've beaten Mia the first meeting. You didn't point out that he had a 92.4 QB rating against NE the first game and a 121 QB rating against Jax. I'm not saying Fitz is a great QB, but comparing him to Kelly is silly. I think many of you would agree Kelly had a much better supporting cast on O and a WAY better D and ST's play. Again, this thing is fun to look at and discuss, but in no way is this totally indicative of QB play. You might point out that a lot of the top QB's are "rated" right where they should be, but you'd fail to point out that they all had much better supporting lines (who wouldn't play better QB if you BELIEVED in your O-line..?), and better supporting offenses (TO INCLUDE TE's, a QB's best friend in the face of pressure!). SOOoooo many variables... Lol... well, it's a Monday isn't it...?
K-9 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Can someone point me to that section of the article where he defines what pressure is? Is he just equating pressure to being blitzed? Beating a blitz is different than beating pressure. I need to know how he defines pressure before I can make sense out of his numbers. GO BILLS!!!
Turbosrrgood Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) I am righ twith you. people on this board who think he is the solution are going to very upset next year. He is not a starting QB. He is good off the bench 'holding down the fort' so to speak. I dont blame them for not getting a qb early in this draft. But to think Fitz is a starting qb, much less a play off qb just show lack of knkowledge of the game. I have heard very few (if any?) people say "he is the solution". I have heard many people say hey played better than expected last year and that they are OK with him being the starter this year or until we find someone better. The QB's in the draft hardly looked better to me. I am not "comfortable" with Fitz as our starter, but the sad thing is he's better than the other QB's we've had recently, and better then any available alternatives at the moment. Those kind of stats, or ANY stats are always overblown and usually taken out of context. Fitz had a mess of a team around him, a defense that gave up loads of points, and a pathetic running attack on offense, which meant opposing D's could T off on him against our awful and oft injured o-line. He had virtually no receiving core (except SJ, who dropped plenty of his own). Maybe you'd like the Bills to pick up Rob Johnson or JP Losman, who had better stats and QB ratings, but looked absolutely lost on the field. Fitz is no probowler, but the offense at least looked watchable for stretch's with him at the helm. Have a better solution than him? I'm all ears. Edited May 16, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
robertpaul49 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 First, I really hope that Fitz has a career year and really become successful while playing for the Bills. I'm not sold on Fitz because I remember being excited in the off-season for Trent & JP. Win a play-off game, and we'll talk. I am also not upset that the Bills did not draft a quarterback. I am really tired of the Bills over-paying, in draft picks, for quarterbacks. If the team struggles this year, I think they will look to draft a quarterback next year. I really believe that teams have to draft quarterbacks high in the draft and hope it was a good year as well as put good players around them. I like the strategy the Bills are implementing in that they plan to build up the team to make it easier for a new quarterback. I've seen many bad teams draft quarterback and still stink because the team stinks. The one big concern I have with Chan Gailey is Jay Fiedler.
San-O Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 The "STATS" haters would also not like to admit that the Bills really didn't do any better scoring points with Fitz in '10 than with Edwards and Jauron's/Edwards O in 2009. Bills rank points scored 2009: 28 Bills rank points scored 2010: 28 I do realize they seemed to MOVE the ball much better with Fitz, and I do like him much better, but seem to recall a number of times when he made really bad decisions or really bad throws at the end of games or when in the red zone. I would like to see some stats for Fitz while in the red zone or in the two minute drill also.
Turbosrrgood Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Can someone point me to that section of the article where he defines what pressure is? Is he just equating pressure to being blitzed? Beating a blitz is different than beating pressure. I need to know how he defines pressure before I can make sense out of his numbers. GO BILLS!!! +1, these are just numbers.
San-O Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Can someone point me to that section of the article where he defines what pressure is? Is he just equating pressure to being blitzed? Beating a blitz is different than beating pressure. I need to know how he defines pressure before I can make sense out of his numbers. GO BILLS!!! Defenders in the backfield.
Rockinon Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 You're on crack. First things first. Fitz did enough to beat Balt, how was it his fault we fumbled in Balt territory? Fitz did enough to beat KC, Lindell just couldn't kick the damned FG twice. He did plenty to beat Pitt... And I agree he would've beaten Mia the first meeting. You didn't point out that he had a 92.4 QB rating against NE the first game and a 121 QB rating against Jax. I'm not saying Fitz is a great QB, but comparing him to Kelly is silly. I think many of you would agree Kelly had a much better supporting cast on O and a WAY better D and ST's play. Again, this thing is fun to look at and discuss, but in no way is this totally indicative of QB play. You might point out that a lot of the top QB's are "rated" right where they should be, but you'd fail to point out that they all had much better supporting lines (who wouldn't play better QB if you BELIEVED in your O-line..?), and better supporting offenses (TO INCLUDE TE's, a QB's best friend in the face of pressure!). SOOoooo many variables... Lol... well, it's a Monday isn't it...? Where are you now McD? I only ask because I am recently retired from the USAF and noticed your sig.
Alphadawg7 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) You're on crack. First things first. Fitz did enough to beat Balt, how was it his fault we fumbled in Balt territory? Fitz did enough to beat KC, Lindell just couldn't kick the damned FG twice. He did plenty to beat Pitt... And I agree he would've beaten Mia the first meeting. You didn't point out that he had a 92.4 QB rating against NE the first game and a 121 QB rating against Jax. I'm not saying Fitz is a great QB, but comparing him to Kelly is silly. I think many of you would agree Kelly had a much better supporting cast on O and a WAY better D and ST's play. Again, this thing is fun to look at and discuss, but in no way is this totally indicative of QB play. You might point out that a lot of the top QB's are "rated" right where they should be, but you'd fail to point out that they all had much better supporting lines (who wouldn't play better QB if you BELIEVED in your O-line..?), and better supporting offenses (TO INCLUDE TE's, a QB's best friend in the face of pressure!). SOOoooo many variables... Lol... well, it's a Monday isn't it...? Hold your horses...I did not compare him to Kelly, someone else did and he asked me to answer the question what if Kelly had been on that team last year. I even said in my response to him that it was foolish to compare Fitz to Kelly as if they are similar. That did not come from me, but I simply answered the question he posed to me. Second, to answer your question about Kelly being a difference in the Balt game and the KC game...did you watch the games? If you did, then you would know we had a double digit half time lead that Fitz gave away in the 3rd for good with two very bad INT's that easily led to two Balt TD's. I am of the opinion that Kelly would have managed the game better and not had us playing from behind the rest of the game and better protected the lead. If you watched the KC game you would have seen one of Fitz's worst games of the season...he did not do enough to win that game, KC did enough to keep us in the game. KC dropped 3 gimme INT's (2 of which would have been pick sixes) for starters. Fitz had only one good drive the whole game, the late TD to SJ. Then he followed it up with a INT where we could have easily won the game with a FG in regulation. Then he missed a wide open Spiller for the win in the endzone BEFORE the missed FG. So again, Kelly IMO wins that game for us. And your QB rating in those 2 other games...NE it was high because he just was Trent reincarnated as he dumped passes off all day in check downs and failed to convert 3rd downs or extend drives. We only had a shot because of a Spiller ST TD in the 2nd half, otherwise it would have been a blow out. Jax game, he started ok then vanished in the 2nd half until the game was a blow out and he got garbage time TD with a minute left in the game against prevent when they were not covering anyone. That made his stats look good, but his performance was not. In fact, many posters (who now love Fitz) was saying it was time to start Brohm as we were going into the bye week after that game. So again, I see Kelly as being a bigger difference in those games. Edited May 16, 2011 by Alphadawg7
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