ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) This isn't a comedy thread - - far from it. Could Toronto businessmen already have either an outright option to purchase the franchise or a right-of-first-refusal to match anybody else's offer to buy the franchise - - both triggered by Ralph's death? Could they have such rights either with or without having already purchased a minority ownership interest in Buffalo Bills, Inc.? I would actually LIKE people to shoot this theory down if they can - - I'm not claiming it's actually happened, but I'm having difficulty seeing why it's not plausible. It's easier to understand the rationale for this theory if I lay some facts out in roughly chronological order: 1. It's beyond dispute that the Buffalo NFL franchise is actually owned by Buffalo Bills, Inc. - - a New York Corporation. The Brady suit made ownership allegations that NFL court pleadings, including those filed in the 8th Circuit, have confirmed. I've previously posted a link to official New York State corporation records showing that Ralph Wilson is connected to that same company. If anybody wants proof I'll go back and dig up the links upon request. 2. The NFL Constitution and Bylaws (as amended through 2006 which is the most recent version I've been able to find online), establishes a few more facts: (a) The "Home Territory" of the Buffalo franchise, as that term is defined in Article IV, Section 4.1, at page 14/292 of the Constitution and Bylaws, extends for 75 miles in every direction from the corporate limits of the City of Buffalo. This "Home Territory" therefore includes Toronto. (b) The Constitution and Bylaws, at Article IV, section 4.2© at page 15/292, prohibits any other NFL club from playing a game within the home territory of the Buffalo franchise unless the Buffalo team is a participant in the game. © Notwithstanding the above, per Article III, section 3.1(B) at page 5/292, a new Toronto team could be admitted into the league if 24 of the 32 team owners vote in favor of doing so. http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf 3. On August 29, 2005 Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, damaging the Superdome and creating speculation about the future of the Saints franchise in New Orleans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina 4. "Early in September 2006 Canada ’s two most important sports entities began the process that might one day create one of the largest sports ownership groups in North America ..." There are people with money, or access to money, in Toronto who have wanted, for a long time, to buy an NFL team and have it play games in Toronto. See this October 12, 2007 posting of an article apparently originally written by Howard Bloom for Sports Business News - it gives some background about several Toronto businessmen and their interest in bringing the NFL to Toronto: http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/2007/10/nfl-expansion-to-canada-will-not.html 5. According to SI's Peter King, an otherwise unidentified Canadian consortium made an offer to buy the Saints for a billion dollars that was turned down by the Saints' ownership. A Toronto newspaper speculates, in an article published on September 25, 2006, that the consortium was probably a group from Toronto. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/archives/article843833.ece 6. In an interview with the Buffalo Evening News that took place no later than June 17, 2007, Ralph Wilson confirmed for the umpteenth time that the team will be sold upon his death. He also said that he would not leave the team to his wife. Perhaps significantly in my view, this is the very last time that I can find any public comments by Ralph Wilson where he was willing to say much of anything specific about what would happen to the team after his death. I have seen lots of articles saying the team will be sold after Ralph's death to the highest bidder, but NEVER with quotation marks indicating that Ralph actually said the words "to the highest bidder." I think that's significant, because IF Toronto businessmen already own an option to purchase or a right-of-first-refusal the team WOULD be sold AFTER Ralph's death - - just not necessarily as the result of a bidding process. As far as I can tell, all the articles reporting that the team will be sold to the highest bidder are just assuming that there will be a bidding process because that's the most common way for assets to be sold after someone's death. But I don't see why an outstanding option to buy or right-of-first-refusal would be inconsistent with the exact phrasing of any statement RW has made at any time since the 5 year Toronto Series was announced. "Also out of the question, according to Wilson, is the prospect of selling part of the team to a Western New Yorker while he’s still alive in order to perhaps give that person an advantage in eventually taking over the club. “That’s absolutely out,” he said." http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2007/06/17/ralph-wilson-says-he-wont-sell-the-bills/ 7. "In October 2007, Bills owner Ralph Wilson petitioned NFL owners to allow his team to play one “home” game per year (over five years) in Canada." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series [Editorial note - - I don't consider Wikipedia very authoritative but I could not immediately find anything else specifying this date in the chronology] 8. The 5 year Bills in Toronto Series deal was announced by Ralph Wilson and Ted Rogers on February 2, 2008. The deal runs through and includes the 2012 season. "The deal with the Bills wouldn't preclude Rogers and Tanenbaum from making bids to buy and relocate other NFL franchises if they go up for sale." http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bills/2008-02-06-toronto_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip 9. Here's Erie County Executive Collins' press conference after the announcement: 10. Here's the Bills' stadium lease with Erie County. It expires on July 31, 2013. So the last regular season games it covers are the ones played in the 2012 NFL season. http://www.erie.gov/billslease/stadium.phtml 11. Whoever owns the Bills franchise (either before or after Ralph Wilson's death), can exercise an escape clause by paying a fee to buy out the remaining term of the stadium lease if they choose to do so. http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2003/03/03/story2.html?page=1 12. On or about December 3, 2008, shortly before the Bills play the first regular season game in the Toronto Series, and shortly after the death of Ted Rogers, ESPN.com reports - - " Rogers Communications was the creation of Ted Rogers, who as a law student built his holdings in an FM radio station into a wireless and cable empire that employs 24,000 and is worth an estimated $18 billion. Rogers Communications already owns the Blue Jays, the Rogers Centre and the Argonauts of the Canadian Football League. The death of Rogers, at 75, on Tuesday -- five days before the first NFL regular-season game was to be played in his building -- might not have a big impact on a potential move by the Bills. Phil Lind, the Rogers vice chairman and a huge Cleveland Browns fan, is said to be the driving force behind the push for the NFL. Rogers has the diversity and the cash flow to spend the $1 billion it would take to buy the franchise. Certainly, the $78 million U.S. price tag to effectively lease those eight games is a powerful sign of interest." 13. The same December 3, 2008 ESPN.com report also stated: "Buffalo fans have been nervous since the Bills signed an offseason deal worth $78 million with Rogers Communications that will take the Bills to Toronto for eight games, three of them preseason contests, over a span of five years. There were rumors that the deal included a right-of-first-refusal clause when the team is sold, but that hasn't been confirmed." [Editorial note - - I would love to see somebody ask RW if anybody already has a right-of-first-refusal or option to buy the franchise and get a direct, responsive answer] 14. Although there are valid reasons to doubt his credibility, some time between January, 2011 and May 11, 2011 Doug Ford, a Toronto councilman, claimed in an interview, when discussing the seating limitations of the Rogers Center, that "he has spoken with officials at Rogers communication about digging down to add an additional 15,000 seats. The renovations wouldn’t cost taxpayers a dime and furthermore, he added, thousands of jobs would be created. “(The NFL) can’t keep ignoring a market this size,” Ford said. And what about scarce turnout when the Buffalo Bills occasionally play in town? “If we had our own team,” Ford told the Score, “we’d treat it like it’s our own and build up a fan base.” There is a “big difference.” http://www.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/987073 [editorial note - this guy might just be a shill but I included his comments here because I had not seen the idea to expand the Rogers Center posted here before - - maybe I just missed it and I don't know how plausible "digging down" is] 15. There is some precedent for an NFL owner granting someone an option to buy the franchise at a future date. There may be other examples, but it's undeniable that a former owner of the New England Patriots once did this. See paragraphs 71-74 (under the heading "The Murray Option") of this otherwise long and complex court opinion: http://openjurist.org/34/f3d/1091/sullivan-ii-v-national-football-league Somebody please convince me that there's no possible way that anyone in Toronto already has a right-of-first-refusal or outright option to buy the Buffalo NFL franchise upon Ralph Wilson's death, because I want the Bills to stay in Buffalo. Edited July 8, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted May 16, 2011 Author Posted May 16, 2011 i just wish you had provided more detail I have sometimes posted in other threads in attempts at humor. I wanted it to be clear that this wasn't one of those times.
indiragandhi'sthong Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Holy moly ... I am not sure my masters thesis was that long and detailed.
DukeyBomb Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Yeah to tell you the truth I scanned it over once hoping it would be quick and to the point, and decided very quickly, I didn't want to read it. ESPECIALLY on a topic about the Bills moving.
BillnutinHouston Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Will get back to you when I learn how to prove a negative.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 How do any of the well known points you cite suggest that RW sold any Toronto business a right of first refusal or future option?
xsoldier54 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 This isn't a comedy thread - - far from it. Could Toronto businessmen already have either an outright option to purchase the franchise or a right-of-first-refusal to match anybody else's offer to buy the franchise - - both triggered by Ralph's death? Could they have such rights either with or without having already purchased a minority ownership interest in Buffalo Bills, Inc.? I would actually LIKE people to shoot this theory down if they can - - I'm not claiming it's actually happened, but I'm having difficulty seeing why it's not plausible. It's easier to understand the rationale for this theory if I lay some facts out in roughly chronological order: 1. It's beyond dispute that the Buffalo NFL franchise is actually owned by Buffalo Bills, Inc. - - a New York Corporation. The Brady suit made ownership allegations that NFL court pleadings, including those filed in the 8th Circuit, have confirmed. I've previously posted a link to official New York State corporation records showing that Ralph Wilson is connected to that same company. If anybody wants proof I'll go back and dig up the links upon request. 2. The NFL Constitution and Bylaws (as amended through 2006 which is the most recent version I've been able to find online), establishes a few more facts: (a) The "Home Territory" of the Buffalo franchise, as that term is defined in Article IV, Section 4.1, at page 14/292 of the Constitution and Bylaws, extends for 75 miles in every direction from the corporate limits of the City of Buffalo. This "Home Territory" therefore includes Toronto. (b) The Constitution and Bylaws, at Article IV, section 4.2© at page 15/292, prohibits any other NFL club from playing a game within the home territory of the Buffalo franchise unless the Buffalo team is a participant in the game. © Notwithstanding the above, per Article III, section 3.1(B) at page 5/292, a new Toronto team could be admitted into the league if 24 of the 32 team owners vote in favor of doing so. http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf 3. On August 29, 2005 Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, damaging the Superdome and creating speculation about the future of the Saints franchise in New Orleans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina 4. "Early in September 2006 Canada ’s two most important sports entities began the process that might one day create one of the largest sports ownership groups in North America ..." There are people with money, or access to money, in Toronto who have wanted, for a long time, to buy an NFL team and have it play games in Toronto. See this October 12, 2007 posting of an article apparently originally written by Howard Bloom for Sports Business News - it gives some background about several Toronto businessmen and their interest in bringing the NFL to Toronto: http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/2007/10/nfl-expansion-to-canada-will-not.html 5. According to SI's Peter King, an otherwise unidentified Canadian consortium made an offer to buy the Saints for a billion dollars that was turned down by the Saints' ownership. A Toronto newspaper speculates, in an article published on September 25, 2006, that the consortium was probably a group from Toronto. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/archives/article843833.ece 6. In an interview with the Buffalo Evening News that took place no later than June 17, 2007, Ralph Wilson confirmed for the umpteenth time that the team will be sold upon his death. He also said that he would not leave the team to his wife. Perhaps significantly in my view, this is the very last time that I can find any public comments by Ralph Wilson where he was willing to say much of anything specific about what would happen to the team after his death. I have seen lots of articles saying the team will be sold after Ralph's death to the highest bidder, but NEVER with quotation marks indicating that Ralph actually said the words "to the highest bidder." I think that's significant, because IF Toronto businessmen already own an option to purchase or a right-of-first-refusal the team WOULD be sold AFTER Ralph's death - - just not necessarily as the result of a bidding process. As far as I can tell, all the articles reporting that the team will be sold to the highest bidder are just assuming that there will be a bidding process because that's the most common way for assets to be sold after someone's death. But I don't see why an outstanding option to buy or right-of-first-refusal would be inconsistent with the exact phrasing of any statement RW has made at any time since the 5 year Toronto Series was announced. "Also out of the question, according to Wilson, is the prospect of selling part of the team to a Western New Yorker while he’s still alive in order to perhaps give that person an advantage in eventually taking over the club. “That’s absolutely out,” he said." http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2007/06/17/ralph-wilson-says-he-wont-sell-the-bills/ 7. "In October 2007, Bills owner Ralph Wilson petitioned NFL owners to allow his team to play one “home” game per year (over five years) in Canada." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series [Editorial note - - I don't consider Wikipedia very authoritative but I could not immediately find anything else specifying this date in the chronology] 8. The 5 year Bills in Toronto Series deal was announced by Ralph Wilson and Ted Rogers on February 2, 2008. The deal runs through and includes the 2012 season. "The deal with the Bills wouldn't preclude Rogers and Tanenbaum from making bids to buy and relocate other NFL franchises if they go up for sale." http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bills/2008-02-06-toronto_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip 9. Here's Erie County Executive Collins' press conference after the announcement: youtube.com/watch?v=jB14wCG6KxM 10. Here's the Bills' stadium lease with Erie County. It expires on July 31, 2013. So the last regular season games it covers are the ones played in the 2012 NFL season. http://www.erie.gov/billslease/stadium.phtml 11. Whoever owns the Bills franchise (either before or after Ralph Wilson's death), can exercise an escape clause by paying a fee to buy out the remaining term of the stadium lease if they choose to do so. http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2003/03/03/story2.html?page=1 12. On or about December 3, 2008, shortly before the Bills play the first regular season game in the Toronto Series, and shortly after the death of Ted Rogers, ESPN.com reports - - " Rogers Communications was the creation of Ted Rogers, who as a law student built his holdings in an FM radio station into a wireless and cable empire that employs 24,000 and is worth an estimated $18 billion. Rogers Communications already owns the Blue Jays, the Rogers Centre and the Argonauts of the Canadian Football League. The death of Rogers, at 75, on Tuesday -- five days before the first NFL regular-season game was to be played in his building -- might not have a big impact on a potential move by the Bills. Phil Lind, the Rogers vice chairman and a huge Cleveland Browns fan, is said to be the driving force behind the push for the NFL. Rogers has the diversity and the cash flow to spend the $1 billion it would take to buy the franchise. Certainly, the $78 million U.S. price tag to effectively lease those eight games is a powerful sign of interest." 13. The same December 3, 2008 ESPN.com report also stated: "Buffalo fans have been nervous since the Bills signed an offseason deal worth $78 million with Rogers Communications that will take the Bills to Toronto for eight games, three of them preseason contests, over a span of five years. There were rumors that the deal included a right-of-first-refusal clause when the team is sold, but that hasn't been confirmed." [Editorial note - - I would love to see somebody ask RW if anybody already has a right-of-first-refusal or option to buy the franchise and get a direct, responsive answer] 14. Although there are valid reasons to doubt his credibility, some time between January, 2011 and May 11, 2011 Doug Ford, a Toronto councilman, claimed in an interview, when discussing the seating limitations of the Rogers Center, that "he has spoken with officials at Rogers communication about digging down to add an additional 15,000 seats. The renovations wouldn’t cost taxpayers a dime and furthermore, he added, thousands of jobs would be created. “(The NFL) can’t keep ignoring a market this size,” Ford said. And what about scarce turnout when the Buffalo Bills occasionally play in town? “If we had our own team,” Ford told the Score, “we’d treat it like it’s our own and build up a fan base.” There is a “big difference.” http://www.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/987073 [editorial note - this guy might just be a shill but I included his comments here because I had not seen the idea to expand the Rogers Center posted here before - - maybe I just missed it and I don't know how plausible "digging down" is] 15. There is some precedent for an NFL owner granting someone an option to buy the franchise at a future date. There may be other examples, but it's undeniable that a former owner of the New England Patriots once did this. See paragraphs 71-74 (under the heading "The Murray Option") of this otherwise long and complex court opinion: http://openjurist.org/34/f3d/1091/sullivan-ii-v-national-football-league Somebody please convince me that there's no possible way that anyone in Toronto already has a right-of-first-refusal or outright option to buy the Buffalo NFL franchise upon Ralph Wilson's death, because I want the Bills to stay in Buffalo. Lots of facts, but none of them even suggest proof that anyone in Toronto has been granted right of first refusal to buy the Bills. Relax, they aren't going anywhere.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 If I recall correctly, an individual must be the majority owner of an NFL football team. As you mentioned, Ted Rogers passed away in 2008… although I suppose one of the other senior officers or directors for Rogers Communications could hypothetically buy the team. But at the time of the Toronto deal, a right of first refusal would probably be given to an individual… and the individual most likely granted right of first refusal has passed away.
bladiebla Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Only piece of evidence is 13 and that is pure speculation, the bid on NO would have been in violation with 2.Would it be a logical? Yes, is it pure speculation, yes.
Mr. WEO Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 I got the gist of this "theory" when the OP "revealed" that the "Buffalo NFL franchise is actually owned by Buffalo Bills, Inc.". Shocking!! This was hardly a secret. Ralph Wilson doesn't write the checks from his own checkbook. The company runs the business of the team. Also loved the goofy "dig down" plan by the rube Toronto councilman for expanding seating capacity for the lame Sky Dome. Anyway, any sale of any team must be approved by 2/3 of the current owners. They are not bound by any "right of first refusal" Ralphie may have made. If the offered price is not competitive, they will reject it.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Anyway, any sale of any team must be approved by 2/3 of the current owners. They are not bound by any "right of first refusal" Ralphie may have made. If the offered price is not competitive, they will reject it. I agree that the owners could find any number of reasons to reject an offer… it's their little fraternity, after all. However, customarily a "right of first refusal" agreement implies a "right to match." This means that if the other owners rejected the bid, that the rejection would be based on factors other than the offer price not being competitive.
Mr. WEO Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 I agree that the owners could find any number of reasons to reject an offer… it's their little fraternity, after all. However, customarily a "right of first refusal" agreement implies a "right to match." This means that if the other owners rejected the bid, that the rejection would be based on factors other than the offer price not being competitive. That will be the stadium, which is unusable for NFL purposes. It may also be the horrible job the Toronto bidder has done selling the Bills to the locals.
rpcolosi Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 you could stop looking at ralph as a man who just want's to milk it for all its worth, and instead realize he's turned down any chance to enjoy the fruits of his 25k investment in his lifetime. the man is going to die without ever seeing the 100s of millions that will come from the Bills. that would be a good first step, because that is actually factual and proven. He is just as likely to give a ROFR to Toronto as he is LA or Bilouxi, Mississippi. He has no business interest in it, because he will be long gone after all this comes up. It will be a decision made by his family or his estate. and like Golisano says... a man that smart and that wealthy already has a plan lined up (you just need to stop being convinced its a back door proposal to les habitants).
The Senator Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Looks like yet another week of pointless threads by bored folks longing for even the tiniest bit of actual football news...
Cynical Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 That will be the stadium, which is unusable for NFL purposes. Agreed. IMHO, any deal that would move the Bills (or any NFL team for that matter) to Toronto would include a clause for a new stadium. The Rogers Centre is just too small for the NFL in both overall seating capacity and the number of luxury boxes. It's also over 20 years old. As for the guy who said they would support the team if it was "theirs": the Argos are averaging less than 30K per game. If that's what the NFL can expect, I do not see the NFL being in a big hurry to put a team there. The LA market can put more people in the seats.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 you could stop looking at ralph as a man who just want's to milk it for all its worth, and instead realize he's turned down any chance to enjoy the fruits of his 25k investment in his lifetime. the man is going to die without ever seeing the 100s of millions that will come from the Bills. that would be a good first step, because that is actually factual and proven. He is just as likely to give a ROFR to Toronto as he is LA or Bilouxi, Mississippi. He has no business interest in it, because he will be long gone after all this comes up. It will be a decision made by his family or his estate. and like Golisano says... a man that smart and that wealthy already has a plan lined up (you just need to stop being convinced its a back door proposal to les habitants). Unless he borrowed the equity out of the Bills by using the team as collateral. PTR
Rockinon Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Looks like yet another week of pointless threads by bored folks longing for even the tiniest bit of actual football news... And out of all that research, the OP can't answer the question for himself. Sounds like reaching for straws in a haystack, one straw at a time. Digging futilely for some shred of evidence only to finally ask the question in a public forum to see if anyone else shares his conspiracy theory. Dude needs to find something useful to do with his life. What a waste of time.
please stop the pain Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Wow. Lots of effort here. Hope they sign a CBA soon, or I will begin to pursue conspiracy theories. Who knows what will happen. By the way, all the worry people have about Ralph W and the Bills... I get a bit weirded out when people get upset that Ralph hasn't sold the team cause he's gonna die soon. Seriously? If you owned the team would you really sell it just because you are getting old. Hey, I'd want to win a championship while I still own the team. Imagine how it would feel to sell the team and thenhave them win. I will be completely bummed if the Bills leave Buffalo, but I have no hope of control here. Will there even be a season this year, or has the collective greed of the owners and players finally signed the death warrant of the NFL. What other organization out there seriously expects such an ongoing increase in revenue every year in this economy. Does anyone really believe that New York State can really afford to pay for a new stadium with the deficit we have.... wow random rant
clancynut Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 If anything I could possibly see a new owner maybe wanting to play one or two more regular season games in Toronto, but moving the team there looks extremely doubtful.
Recommended Posts