Ralph talks to the NY Daily News

[Dibs]

....You keep repeating that local economy has affected the success of the Bills....

No he doesn't.

K-9 keeps repeating that the smaller market teams are at a disadvantage compared to the cashed up teams.

 

Just because the cashed up teams have crap results and/or certain small market teams have good results does not change the fact that the bigger revenue teams have an advantage while the smaller revenue teams have a disadvantage.

[Doc]

Quibbling and sophistry. How predictable from you.

 

You think GB knew (EDIT: they) had a SB MVP on their hands in early 2008 when AR hadn't started a game in 3 seasons?

Lack of insight. How predictable from you.

 

Do I think GB, i.e. Thompson, McCarthy (who was a lousy positional coach and a "WTF!" head coaching hire), and Murphy knew Rodgers was a SB MVP-in-waiting? Can't say. But they obviously felt good enough about him to release GB demi-god Favre.

Doc, Rodgers is quite a pick, no doubt. But check out the Packers drafts over the past few years. Not too shabby.

I agree. But Rodgers is the key given it's a QB-driven league.

[BillsVet]

Lack of insight. How predictable from you.

 

Do I think GB, i.e. Thompson, McCarthy (who was a lousy positional coach and a "WTF!" head coaching hire), and Murphy knew Rodgers was a SB MVP-in-waiting? Can't say. But they obviously felt good enough about him to release GB demi-god Favre.

 

I agree. But Rodgers is the key given it's a QB-driven league.

 

GB traded Favre and didn't release him. They made an organizational decision to go with Rodgers during 2008 as Favre neared 40. But I digress.

 

The point remains that solid ownership (CEO in this case) combined with excellent front office management and talent evaluation can and does produce success. Rodgers with the Bills' supporting cast doesn't win enough. But take an organization that gets the QB and surrounds him with top talent while featuring a very good defense and they'll win. That's the GB Packers.

 

If you're inferring that just having a franchise QB is sufficient in a QB driven league, well, that's false. It's much more than that.

[Doc]

GB traded Favre and didn't release him. They made an organizational decision to go with Rodgers during 2008 as Favre neared 40. But I digress.

 

The point remains that solid ownership (CEO in this case) combined with excellent front office management and talent evaluation can and does produce success. Rodgers with the Bills' supporting cast doesn't win enough. But take an organization that gets the QB and surrounds him with top talent while featuring a very good defense and they'll win. That's the GB Packers.

 

If you're inferring that just having a franchise QB is sufficient in a QB driven league, well, that's false. It's much more than that.

"Solid ownership?" They're owned by Green Bay, whose executive committee elected Mark Murphy, former AD of Northwestern and Colgate, in 2007. Their HC is a guy who had a lousy track record as an OC for the Saints (4 years) and 49'ers (1 year), before Green Bay surprisingly named him HC. I can only imagine the cries had Ralph hired these guys. Ted Thompson is the only guy who had some clout, having been with Seattle and Holgrem for a number of years.

 

But yes, having a good QB is sufficient to win in a QB-driven league. Maybe not win the SB, but make the playoffs. Again how the Bills not finding a QB gets pinned on Ralph is anyone's guess, but I guess he's the easiest target.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Doc

[EastRochBillsfan]

WOW. I knew early in this thread when I threw some love towards Ralph that it would turn into this. I asked for you bashers to be silent but it was just a pipe dream. What was I thinking?..... Thanks K-9 for all your work in this thread. And I know its work. Its hard just reading it all.

 

The concept that someone could be a fan of a team and not be supportive of its owner is obviously beyond your mind's grasp. Besides, he has admitted his bumbling of the team.

 

What are your thoughts regarding Al Davis (an owner who has actually "brought" SB victories to his team's fans)?

 

You keep repeating that local economy has affected the success of the Bills, yet you cannot explain why--in fact you reiterate that ownership ineptitude is the real cause.

 

Even if we were to entertain your notion, again, it is interesting that you pick one or two teams (the high grossers) and on the one hand demonstrate how their money hasn't brought success and on the other hand you insist they have some sort of advantage. You seem to skip over the several other teams that have had success over the past decade without such massive revenues--or spending habits (Indy, GB, NE, Pitts).

 

If "both teams spent 143 million" (or the max), and each team has at least tens of millions left over in operating income....so what? And as far as "recovering financially from mistakes"--Ralph has never suffered financially from his mistakes, so you make no point there.

 

My disdain for Ralph's "cheapness" is mostly directed at his coaching decisions over the past 10 or more years. His selections were indisputably bad, but you will disagree. You will also disagree that he re-signed DJ prematurely because after 4 or 5 wins early in his contract season, Ralph thought (bizarrely) that there would be some sort of "bidding war" for DJ at the end of the season. When the Bills went 7-9 yet again, Ralph didn't fire DJ because he would have to eat his new contract. You would, laughably, disagree with that too, no doubt.

 

Look, my original point was that there is nothing unique to Buffalo's economy that would prevent putting a winning team on the field. You have conceded that the real reason is that the owner makes bad decisions. So why are you "spending hours" repeating this other nonsense, as though if the Bills would only have another 100 million in revenue, they could compete with such successful teams as the Cowboys and the Skins?

 

You like Forbes? Me too--you will note that all but 6 teams in the entire league fall outside of a very tight 220-260 million revenue range. Over the past 12 years, all SB winners but one were in that range--in fact, only one recent past SB winner grossed over 250 million last year. The the field is pretty level. You're way off.

 

Its beyond my grasp as well. If you hate the owner so much I just can't comprehend how much fun it is for you to follow the team. The owner and team are pretty closely connected, wouldn't you say? Seriously, what joy do you attain in following the Bills? Please explain to me how you are still a fan because I honestly can't comprehend it.

[benbillsfan]

i vote to close this thread...

[ETD66SS]

Ralph is an old tired dog that could not be taught new tricks 20 years ago when he needed to get his damn fingers out of the cookie jar. He's a meddler, and he has done virtually nothing as an NFL owner except get lucky once by hiring the right guy (Polian). And instead of retaining one of the best GM's in NFL history, his arrogance ruined that situation.

 

The Bills are in a cesspool due to the current owner.

 

Pegula is what many of us have wanted in a Bills owner for decades, Ralph is no Pegula, and that's why the Bills will continue to suck under his "leadership"

 

He is right about one thing, the Buffalo economy does suck. You can thank the entitlement panzies who have been running state & local gov't for decades. Buffalo is sewage compared to most other NFL cities, and though it's a nice town for Hockey, I think the NFL has passed both Ralph & Buffalo by.

 

I see no reason why a new owner would want to put his waders on and walk through this crap.

 

Many people have left WNY for greener pastures and left behind mostly turds.

 

Buffalo is pretty much doomed as an NFL city.

 

When Ralph Wilson dies, so do the Buffalo Bills IMO.

[ganesh]

 

The real mystery to me is how Jones and Snyder continue to fumble this competitive edge vs. well run small market teams like the Steelers and Pack. Fans of the 'Boys and 'Skins should be more livid about their performance over the past decade than we are of the Bills ineptitude. On the other hand, we should take heart from the success of the Pittsburgh and Green Bay organization's ability to capitalize on the draft to continually replenish the talent pool.

 

Hopefully, with Buddy and his "football people," we're moving closer to this ideal.

 

It is easy...The expectations are way high in Washington and Dallas, because these people threw lots of real dollars @ Snyder and Jones, so they expect constant action..However, that constant churn does not help build a team as evidenced in both Dallas and in Washington.

 

The expectations on the front office in the small market teams are to draft well and be patient with the players. The fans in those stadiums know that money is hard to come buy and you cannot BUY a team. There is no expectation on the fan for constant front office action. They prefer the players to have all the action.

 

Having said that, the Steelers do take care of the right people when it is necessary. The Steelers have paid big bucks to Ben, Polamalu, Hines Ward, Casey Hampton etc, the building blocks of their team for the decade.

 

Another place where these teams differ is that they make GOOD COACHING hires and stick with them for years. The result of the continuity is evident in 4 SB appearances for Pittsburgh and Green Bay this decade. It is not like Mike McCarthy is very different from Mike Mularkey or Mike Tomlin is way better than a Dick Jauron. What these men get is the backing from the Front office and focus on winning games.

 

 

 

The Bills are where they are because the owner sought to meddle and only now is delegating authority over football decisions to actual football people. You won't see Mark Murphy telling Ted Thompson what to do, even though both played in the NFL. For all the credit some Bills fans give RW, he is directly responsible for their inability to win these past 11 years. Small market or big market, a team has to have an owner who A) finds quality people in the front office and B) let's them do the job they're hired to do. Maybe RW is finally realizing this, but in the interim it's inexcusable to waste an entire decade like Buffalo did.

 

To Ralph's credit, he did..by hiring TD as the President and General Manager and let him deal with the drafts and personnel decision and it blew right back on his face. Remember the day when TD ordered fans who wore brown bags blaming TD for the mess to be escorted out of the stadium...That was a big backlash for Ralph and the Buffalo Bills. I am sure you would have done the same if you were the owner of the team, especially considering that no one wanted the job after TD was fired and Ralph had to bring back a guy he trusted to run the front office in Marv Levy. That blew on his face again, because Marv turned out to be a horrible GM who went for a Consensus draft and let non-football folks do the drafting....and there goes the story.

 

"Solid ownership?" They're owned by Green Bay, whose executive committee elected Mark Murphy, former AD of Northwestern and Colgate, in 2007. Their HC is a guy who had a lousy track record as an OC for the Saints (4 years) and 49'ers (1 year), before Green Bay surprisingly named him HC. I can only imagine the cries had Ralph hired these guys. Ted Thompson is the only guy who had some clout, having been with Seattle and Holgrem for a number of years.

 

But yes, having a good QB is sufficient to win in a QB-driven league. Maybe not win the SB, but make the playoffs. Again how the Bills not finding a QB gets pinned on Ralph is anyone's guess, but I guess he's the easiest target.

 

Green Bay won the Super bowl because they hired Dom Capers to run their defense. That super bowl does not happen without this hire.

 

The key to winning for lot of successful teams is having good/strong OC and DCs....The bills have lacked in this area for too long.

[Mr. WEO]

WOW. I knew early in this thread when I threw some love towards Ralph that it would turn into this. I asked for you bashers to be silent but it was just a pipe dream. What was I thinking?..... Thanks K-9 for all your work in this thread. And I know its work. Its hard just reading it all.

 

 

 

Its beyond my grasp as well. If you hate the owner so much I just can't comprehend how much fun it is for you to follow the team. The owner and team are pretty closely connected, wouldn't you say? Seriously, what joy do you attain in following the Bills? Please explain to me how you are still a fan because I honestly can't comprehend it.

 

Yes, the team and owner are "pretty closely connected", and this is the problem at this point. I don't "hate" anyone. Such hyperbole (for an owner of sports team, no less!) has rendered that word meaningless.

 

You really "can't comprehend" how I can support the Bills without equally supporting the guy who owns them? This is a very bizarre notion.

 

I, like almost everyone here, am hoping for the best every year. Yet it still hasn't come. The results are laid bare--and there is no mystery as to why we are where we are. Yet to point out the obvious is to be met with this rabid reaction by a few.

 

If you can't comprehend how anyone can be a fan of a TEAM, yet be critical of the ownership or management of what is universally regarded as a poorly managed franchise....and want better for their team than they are getting, then I can't explain that to you. Your mind is so closed that you can't conceive of how a fan could enjoy his team yet point out the obvious shortcomings of its owner. I have nothing personally against Wilson. I have much to say about his management of this team. In a free society, fans may complain about the onwner of a team.

 

If we were a perennial contender, we wouldn't be having these discussions, would we?

[Doc]

Green Bay won the Super bowl because they hired Dom Capers to run their defense. That super bowl does not happen without this hire.

 

The key to winning for lot of successful teams is having good/strong OC and DCs....The bills have lacked in this area for too long.

I agree that Capers was a huge addition, but he's never had a team that even made it to the SB before. The Packers' defense was excellent to be sure, but Rodgers is also arguably the best QB in the NFL.

[K-9]

... If we were a perennial contender, we wouldn't be having these discussions, would we?

 

Sure we would. You'd still find something to B word about. It's what you look for. Every silver lining has its cloud.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Mr. WEO]

I agree that Capers was a huge addition, but he's never had a team that even made it to the SB before. The Packers' defense was excellent to be sure, but Rodgers is also arguably the best QB in the NFL.

I agree with this.

 

I thought letting Favre go when they did (after an NFCC appearance) was a mistake by GB. Obviously that was wrong.

[EastRochBillsfan]

Yes, the team and owner are "pretty closely connected", and this is the problem at this point. I don't "hate" anyone. Such hyperbole (for an owner of sports team, no less!) has rendered that word meaningless.

 

You really "can't comprehend" how I can support the Bills without equally supporting the guy who owns them? This is a very bizarre notion.

 

I, like almost everyone here, am hoping for the best every year. Yet it still hasn't come. The results are laid bare--and there is no mystery as to why we are where we are. Yet to point out the obvious is to be met with this rabid reaction by a few.

 

If you can't comprehend how anyone can be a fan of a TEAM, yet be critical of the ownership or management of what is universally regarded as a poorly managed franchise....and want better for their team than they are getting, then I can't explain that to you. Your mind is so closed that you can't conceive of how a fan could enjoy his team yet point out the obvious shortcomings of its owner. I have nothing personally against Wilson. I have much to say about his management of this team. In a free society, fans may complain about the onwner of a team.

 

If we were a perennial contender, we wouldn't be having these discussions, would we?

Now I never said that about supporting the Bills and equally supporting the owner. I said with your disdain for the owner I can't see what fun it is for you to follow the team. It just doesn't seem to me like you would be able to have much fun.

 

Furthermore, my mind is not closed at all. I am very open minded. I suppose if you contributed more to this board other than your criticism of the owner maybe you wouldn't be met with this "rabid reaction" from us few.(which by the way, i would guess 90% of us here feel this way towards you, though only a few of us make our voice heard. You are in a small class of your own with the likes of Billsvet and Billsfreak and maybe 10 others) But you are what you are. talk about closed minded.

[Doc]

I agree with this.

 

I thought letting Favre go when they did (after an NFCC appearance) was a mistake by GB. Obviously that was wrong.

Same here.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's the ugly side of being from Buffalo. We want everything and when we get it we complain that it wasn't gift wrapped. Just look at Terry Pegula. People are already questioning his commitment. Here's an owner that was an answer to any Sabres fans prayers, a guy who has already spent millions on flying in alumni, remodeling the locker rooms, and installing super-dehumidifiers in HSBC so we can have the best ice in the league, and people were still pissing and moaning when the Sabres raised prices 5%. (A move that was mandated by the league so the Sabres would qualify for revenue sharing!) Just read some of the comments at the bottom of this story. Absolutely pathetic.

 

PTR

 

Aside from the possible exception of an expansion franchise in Houston, the Bills have been the worst team in the conference for the past decade. Eleven years with no playoffs in this era is like 30 years with no playoffs in the 60's, 70's and 80's when there was no free agency and playing field leveling policy like the salary cap. Even the Jets have been to the playoffs with 3 different coaches in that time span. Wake up, the pessimism is justified.