Justice Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Oh, oh, oh, Mr. Kotter! Sibling rivalry? I'm not really understanding what you're saying here, but I think I get the gist of it. Palestinians and Israelis are so much alike it's kind of funny that they don't get along.
meazza Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 I, nor anyone else in this thread ever said Israel is the biggest problem in the middle east. I agree. I was mostly generalizing from the opinions you can get just by surfing the internet for 5 minutes. That whole area is and has been in utter chaos for quite some time now, but Israel like the US, hold themselves to higher standards than those other countries, and if they do they should act accordingly. Of course I believe they should hold themselves to higher standards but I do believe security is very important. In terms of the things you mentioned much earlier in this thread (white phosphorus, etc), that is the result of warfare. Besides that, lack of security in some areas have cost Israeli lives (i.e. during the second intifada) and is obviously their priority. The people in the middle east have had enough and are overthrowing their governments. Change is in the air in the ME, and the Palestinians and Isrealis have to join them in change as well. Where exactly? Besides Tunisia, I don't see any actual change. Of course it's too early to tell but I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years down the line, life will not have changed much. Peace isn't unattainable. Let's try something new and see where it takes us. The cycle of hate needs to end. I blame the Palestinians in Gaza for voting in Hamas and I blame the people if Israel for voting in that hawk, Netanyahu. Get people in there that WANT real peace. PLEASE!! That's all well said of course is it actually feasible? I'm not going to regurgitate what GG said earlier. I do sympathize with those who lost their land but life is, and never was fair. BTW, if democracies were do important to us then why are all our friends kingdoms? The Saudis, Jordan and the UK? Oil.
Rob's House Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Do any of you guys know why the Muslims really hate the Jews? It's because the Jews repo the houses faster than the muslims can blow them up.
Justice Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) Can't really disagree with anything you stated, here. Good post. My only issue is the use of white phosphorous. First off, it's illegal. Secondly, it covers an entire area, with no regard to civilians and that's just plain wrong. I agree. I was mostly generalizing from the opinions you can get just by surfing the internet for 5 minutes. Of course I believe they should hold themselves to higher standards but I do believe security is very important. In terms of the things you mentioned much earlier in this thread (white phosphorus, etc), that is the result of warfare. Besides that, lack of security in some areas have cost Israeli lives (i.e. during the second intifada) and is obviously their priority. Where exactly? Besides Tunisia, I don't see any actual change. Of course it's too early to tell but I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years down the line, life will not have changed much. That's all well said of course is it actually feasible? I'm not going to regurgitate what GG said earlier. I do sympathize with those who lost their land but life is, and never was fair. Oil. Edited May 22, 2011 by b.harami98
3rdnlng Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 The nukes are well within the context of our discussion. They get $3 billion a year in aid from the US, some of that goes towards their nuclear program. I don't get your logic. And you call me ignorant. Whatever. Besides, is that excuse good enough for the Arabs as well? Maybe they need a deterrent for Israel. Plus you say "if" as if they don't. You're the ignorant one, my friend, ever hear of Dimona? Wait just a minute here. I said your statement was just ignorant. I didn't call you ignorant and am dissappointed in you for calling me that. You know damn well that their nukes would never be used on the Palestinians but are only a deterrent to countries like Iran and Syria. What was ignorant was bringing them into the discussion when they have no bearing on that discussion.
Justice Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Wait just a minute here. I said your statement was just ignorant. I didn't call you ignorant and am dissappointed in you for calling me that. You know damn well that their nukes would never be used on the Palestinians but are only a deterrent to countries like Iran and Syria. What was ignorant was bringing them into the discussion when they have no bearing on that discussion. Sorry for the insult, but we were discussing the $3billion a year in US aid that the Israelis get and I'm pretty sure some of that goes to their nuclear program. Why is that so hard to comprehend? I never said Israel would use them on the Palestinians. That's pretty obvious, do you think? My issue is that they're not a part of the non-proliferation act and shouldn't have them. Why do they get different standards than everyone else?
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Quick qustion now that we are on the Israel thing. How did the UN determine the post war borders that would become Isreal? I would like to hear both sides of the argument... Why they got the "peach" lands... ?
meazza Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Quick qustion now that we are on the Israel thing. How did the UN determine the post war borders that would become Isreal? I would like to hear both sides of the argument... Why they got the "peach" lands... ? Have you ever seen Israeli women? Maybe they sent them over to the UN to negotiate
Justice Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Quick qustion now that we are on the Israel thing. How did the UN determine the post war borders that would become Isreal? I would like to hear both sides of the argument... Why they got the "peach" lands... ? I don't know. Good question, I'll have to look that up.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 I don't know. Good question, I'll have to look that up. I watched that video that meazza put in the other thread... It looks like Israel really controls all the prime areas. Would Palestine be a landlocked country? How in the heck did the UN ever think it would work?
3rdnlng Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Let's not forget about the illegal nukes that they have. I'm sure you need them against the mighty Palestinians. This was what I was replying to.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) I'm not really understanding what you're saying here, but I think I get the gist of it. Palestinians and Israelis are so much alike it's kind of funny that they don't get along. So much alike they are "family." My reference was as a joke... To Abraham and his sons. Have you ever seen Israeli women? Maybe they sent them over to the UN to negotiate Golda Meir was from Russia... Not from Queens. Edited May 22, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois
Justice Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 This was what I was replying to. Yeah, I was being sarcastic. Sorry about that.
chicot Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Quick qustion now that we are on the Israel thing. How did the UN determine the post war borders that would become Isreal? I would like to hear both sides of the argument... Why they got the "peach" lands... ? Not quite sure if this has what you are looking for but it's a (long) account of the background to the conflict. It's on the "If Americans Knew" website but was written by Jews For Justice For Palestinians. Origin of the Israel-Palestine conflict Some will of course argue that it is pro-Palestinian but I'll leave it to someone else to provide the pro-Israeli version.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Not quite sure if this has what you are looking for but it's a (long) account of the background to the conflict. It's on the "If Americans Knew" website but was written by Jews For Justice For Palestinians. Origin of the Israel-Palestine conflict Some will of course argue that it is pro-Palestinian but I'll leave it to someone else to provide the pro-Israeli version. Thanks! It is nice to know there are Israelis/Jews out there that are pro-Palestinian and recognize some of the plight.
Adam Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Thanks! It is nice to know there are Israelis/Jews out there that are pro-Palestinian and recognize some of the plight. There are more than you think. The two state solution is bot pro Palestinian and pro Israel.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 There are more than you think. The two state solution is bot pro Palestinian and pro Israel. I just wish the Palestinians would renounce the violence... They would have a 'South Africa" thing going and could gain sympathy from the world.
ieatcrayonz Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Damn, chicot, school is in session! You are so right. He defended your ridiculous assertion that body count is the primary measuring stick with incredible skill. Except not. It seems he actually defended the random killings in the same way a 5 year old boy would defend hitting his three year old brother: "He did it first Mom".
chicot Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 You are so right. He defended your ridiculous assertion that body count is the primary measuring stick with incredible skill. Except not. It seems he actually defended the random killings in the same way a 5 year old boy would defend hitting his three year old brother: "He did it first Mom". I replied to your simplistic, sarcastic analogy with a simplistic, sarcastic analogy of my own. You don't like it? Well, don't take the debate there in the first place. BTW I preferred your earlier, funnier posts.
DC Tom Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Not quite sure if this has what you are looking for but it's a (long) account of the background to the conflict. It's on the "If Americans Knew" website but was written by Jews For Justice For Palestinians. Origin of the Israel-Palestine conflict Some will of course argue that it is pro-Palestinian but I'll leave it to someone else to provide the pro-Israeli version. Long, and inaccurate. Not for being one-sided...but it ascribes much more direction and organization to the Jews and Zionists prior to 1948 than they actually had. Events surrounding the UN partition plan and end of the British mandate really weren't that directed or deterministic.
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