truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 He's had 4 knee surgeries. At the Masters a month ago he hit a shot from under a tree which required more knee bend, which caused a strain that kept him out until today. On the front 9 today he shoots +6 and withdraws, stating his left leg from his knee to his achilles stiffened up. This is some scary stuff ... I cut and pasted this from a golf forum from someone in the medical field. "Hey guys, I don't post very much and therefore don't have much dog in this fight as I'm not a huge TIger fan or detractor, but there are a lot of misconceptions about injury, anatomy, and "faking" here that just don't sound right. First, the anatomy: Tiger is creating a good deal of torque as he clears his hips through the swing against a relatively static distal lower extremity. From what I can surmise, he has consistently had problems with his medial knee - multiple arthroscopic procedures to clear damaged cartilage from his (probably medial) meniscus. I am not sure if he has had repair or a definitive allograft (a transplanted meniscus), but either way, he has a lack a stability in the knee that is most likely permanent. The medial knee takes most of the load for the body, and a lack of proper support (a complete meniscus - which is at the most basic level simply a plastic cup that the femur rests in on top of the tibia) contributes to unpredictable motion within the joint. The problem with an unstable joint is that you never really know when the ligaments are going to fail at load. Unfortunately, Tiger's swing (stack and tilt)? isn't doing him any favors and causes extreme varus (bowing) at the knee joint with all of that load at the target leg. There is a simultaneous or nearly simultaneous lateral radial rotation (load on ACL and MCL) with varus (load on ACL and LCL). It is no surprise, therefore, that he has had his ACL replaced, and has concomitant MCL issues. This injury actually has a clinical nickname because it is so common - the "Unhappy Triad" - ACL and MCL rupture with medial meniscus tear. Most likely that his strengthened ACL (a strong autograft from another part of his body) is holding but his original MCL is now weakened. Most would recommend a lateral rotation of the foot in the setup to take pressure off of the joint (this is recommended for seniors) along with less grip in the base (no metal spikes!). This is exactly opposite of what Tiger does - he actually needs a weaker base to protect the knee. All of that aside, I have no doubt that he is in a lot of pain and that he shouldn't continue the tournament - ideas about fighting through injuries such as these is pretty juvenile. It is perfectly logical that he could injure himself badly at any time, and wouldn't be surprised if we later found out that he had strained or partially tore his ACL. The Achilles problem only adds to the issues, but I've talked too much already." Sounds like he's fading fast and will never be the same again. Heck even sounds like there's a chance he's one bad swing from not playing anymore. Sucks because I like golf and in particular wanted to watch TWs career unfold, as I was too young to see Nicklaus. I caught all of Jordan's which was great, and guys like this don't come along very often. So it will be a real shame for sports in general if this thing isn't turned around.
BuffaloBill Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 This would certainly explain his precipitous fall in his game. If this is all true it suggests that Nicholas will remain as the legend of the game and Tiger may one day be remembered with a footnote.
truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) On mike and mike this am they compared him to Ken Griffey jr. A rare specimen who was putting up #'s comfortably had him on pace to break important records until a series of injuries and ultimately age reduced him to a footnote. Edited May 13, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack
shrader Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 This would certainly explain his precipitous fall in his game. If this is all true it suggests that Nicholas will remain as the legend of the game and Tiger may one day be remembered with a footnote. I don't know. If his career were to end today, I think ultimately the two would be viewed on pretty much an equal standing. A difference of 4 majors doesn't seem like all that much to me, considering the fact that they're both in the teens. There are two major differences that I see, one in favor of each man. Jack has the 86 Masters and Tiger has the unrivaled dominance of his early career.
KD in CA Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 He's had 4 knee surgeries. At the Masters a month ago he hit a shot from under a tree which required more knee bend, which caused a strain that kept him out until today. On the front 9 today he shoots +6 and withdraws, stating his left leg from his knee to his achilles stiffened up. This is some scary stuff ... I cut and pasted this from a golf forum from someone in the medical field. I don't think there is any question that the biggest factor in Woods' decline is that his body is breaking down. He's 35 and at the age most athletes start to slow down anyway. I think that poster was spot on -- considering the way he swings the club and the amount of force/stress he puts on his knees and other joints, the rash of injuries is not that surprising. He plays a power game and so the very style that allowed him to dominate the sport (and inspired a generation of younger, more aggressive players who are now competing with him) is probably the thing that will ensure he does not have a particularly long career. Honestly, I don't see him catching Nicholas any longer. This would certainly explain his precipitous fall in his game. If this is all true it suggests that Nicholas will remain as the legend of the game and Tiger may one day be remembered with a footnote. The 2d greatest golfer ever and one who completely changed the way the sport is played would be a footnote? Yeah, ok.
dpberr Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 The more I read about Tiger Woods and his fall from atop the golfing game, I see the circumstantial evidence of steroid use. The erratic personality, prevalent use of Ambien, and the chronic tendon and joint injuries makes me wonder.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 On mike and mike this am they compared him to Ken Griffey jr. A rare specimen who was putting up #'s comfortably had him on pace to break important records until a series of injuries and ultimately age reduced him to a footnote. The more I read about Tiger Woods and his fall from atop the golfing game, I see the circumstantial evidence of steroid use. The erratic personality, prevalent use of Ambien, and the chronic tendon and joint injuries makes me wonder. Actually, there have always been steroid questions about Griffey, and that when all of the steroid controversy in baseball took place (2002-2003) Griffey's statistics suddenly nosedived and he was frequently injured.
BuffaloBill Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 The 2d greatest golfer ever and one who completely changed the way the sport is played would be a footnote? Yeah, ok. I said remembered with, not as, a footnote. Point being that injury may cut his career short.
kegtapr Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 He needs to change his game and whole mindset about the way he plays if he wants to play past a few more years. Few players can do this, but he has the skills and the drive to be able to return to the top (or close to it anyways). One could hope if he manages to do this, it will also change his crappy attitude on the course, otherwise I could care less if he fades into obscurity.
truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I'd say for the most part Griffey is a footnote at this point. #5 all time hr list is miles away from #1.And the pathetic way he faded away left lasting negative images. Edited May 13, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack
shrader Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 The thing about Tiger right now is that the stuff that is currently killing him (other than the injury, of course) is that he hasn't been draining many of the putts that have always been routine to him. I have a hard time blaming that on any physical ailments.
The Senator Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 The 2d greatest golfer ever and one who completely changed the way the sport is played would be a footnote? Yeah, ok. That's where you rank him? Bobby Jones, then Tiger Woods? Seriously?
tennesseeboy Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I think its time for him to whistle in the dogs, pee on the fire, and turn his horse homeward. Those injuries you described are hardly the kind of thing that is going to go away or even get good enough for him to play at a top level, and I can't see him hanging out just to play and not be competitive. Wish him well, even though a goodly number of the crises in his life were of his own doing. Then again isn't that true of all of us?
truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 Other thing this guys been golf obsessed and competing since he was in diapers. His effective age as a golfer is a lot more than 35. probably worn out mentally and wouldn't mind getting away from the intense heat of competition.
McBeane Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 One quick little thing, Tiger does not use the "stack and tilt" swing. Switching to Foley changed his swing to more of a one-plane swing. For people that may not know the difference, the stack and tilt swing involves "stacking" weight on the front leg during the swing and letting your momentum catch up throughout the course of the swing. A lot of older people use this swing because its easier on the hips, shoulders, and knees and allows them to make more consistent contact. The one-plane swing has the player staying back (more 60-40 than anything) and gradually letting their momentum come forward as the swing progresses. This swing is much tougher on the knees and legs in general because the legs are a relatively large power source. IF he was using a stack and tilt swing (only one recent player has had any success with it, and he has switched back to a conventional swing is Aaron Baddeley) it would actually be much easier on his knee and lower body. That's just the sparknotes version of the differences in the swings. Now, Tigers main problem is that he is not playing golf anymore, he is playing "swing the club." Every shot consists of checkpoints in the swing and he is worried more about hitting his checkpoints than he needs to be. Amateurs get caught up with this all the time and my coaches have always told me to try to ignore anything you are working on changing while playing competitively, just get out there and play golf the way you know how. Tiger will come back around, he has too much talent to not to. He would honestly be better off forgetting about working on his swing and just going out and working on shots and confidence. But then again, there is a reason I'm a mid-teens handicap and he's on the PGA Tour. Just my two cents.
truth on hold Posted June 14, 2011 Author Posted June 14, 2011 He barely plays anymore always in rehab. He's out for US Open His well known caddie Stevie Williams is on the bag with Adam Scott this week Seriously is he done and just putting up a front he has a chance to come back so Nike wont seek an out clause in his 70 mill / yr contract?
Huuuge Bills Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 To be fair he's only been out for a year and a half. And the first few months of that he was in "sex rehab". Then he pulled a Sam Bradford and came back way too soon with an injury that you simply shouldn't rush back from. He used to lock out his left knee to create a more powerful shot. Which wore it down prematurely. Then he rushed back and made it even worse. Throw in that he has problems with his right Achilles, and it's not surprising that he isn't back yet. Golfers play competitively into their 50's, and Tiger is much better shape than all of them. Give him another few months and I think he'll be back and competitive. While I doubt he ever returns to his previous winning ways, he'll win a few more tournaments.
Doc Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 More than likely, his days of dominance are over. He may come back and win a major every few years, but he won't catch Jack.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 To be fair he's only been out for a year and a half. And the first few months of that he was in "sex rehab". Then he pulled a Sam Bradford and came back way too soon with an injury that you simply shouldn't rush back from. He used to lock out his left knee to create a more powerful shot. Which wore it down prematurely. Then he rushed back and made it even worse. Throw in that he has problems with his right Achilles, and it's not surprising that he isn't back yet. Golfers play competitively into their 50's, and Tiger is much better shape than all of them. Give him another few months and I think he'll be back and competitive. While I doubt he ever returns to his previous winning ways, he'll win a few more tournaments. Sounds like PEDs to me.
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