It Looks To Me As If Mr. Wilson.....

[John from Riverside]

Guys you do realize that you can name any safety who racks up interceptions like Byrd did and the same thing will be said? They get the majority of their int's by being in the right place at the right time....its called INSTINCTS and Byrd has them

 

He wasn't as good as his stats showed in his first year and he isn't as bad as his stats showed last year.....its somewhere in the middle however I have NO DOUBT that a front 7 that puts pressure on a QB and shuts down the run FORCING teams to pass will create more opportunities for the opportunistic Byrd. I agree.....dont really like his run support.

 

I think that people are looking at this in way too broad of a view.....

 

Not being able to stop the run affects so many aspects of your defense....turnovers happen when you get a offense out of its comfortable flow and element....if they know they can get a 1st down on every 3rd down play they are going to play free and lose while the defense is on their heels trying to guess run or pass....if you shut a team down on 1st and 2nd down creating long down and distance CONSISTANTLY then you are now dictating to the offense what they have to do as 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 8 are not running downs........this is where you give ball hawks like Byrd a chance to play their coverage a little tighter......and cause a turnover.

 

Im just saying dont be surpised if Byrds numbers dont go up this year.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Diehard fans will come to games. I have been to RWS for 17 consecutive seasons. But not every game was sold out. Those remaining seats are the ones in question imo.

In April, a LT or a DT who isn't going to have too many sacks would create less causal fan interest than a guy like Spiller, if he could play.

And, those unsold seat mean more to Ralph than they would to Paul Allen or Woody Johnson. That is pure profit.

A stronger case for making a move to sell tickets was when they brought in Terrell Owens on a 1 year, $6.5M contract to a totally dysfunctional offense with no identity or leadership. The mastermind behind that move was none other than Ralph Wilson himself. TO was marketed and people did buy.

[Beerball]

Im just saying dont be surpised if Byrds numbers dont go up this year.

I think that's a safe bet. It is tough to go down from one interception and 2 passes defended for a full time starter.

 

Byrd IMO looked lost and out of position at times last season. Unless he gets an understanding of his responsibilities he'll continue to struggle. I don't know how different his responsibilities were in year 2 but he's got to improve to stay on the field.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Guys you do realize that you can name any safety who racks up interceptions like Byrd did and the same thing will be said? They get the majority of their int's by being in the right place at the right time....its called INSTINCTS and Byrd has them

 

He wasn't as good as his stats showed in his first year and he isn't as bad as his stats showed last year.....its somewhere in the middle however I have NO DOUBT that a front 7 that puts pressure on a QB and shuts down the run FORCING teams to pass will create more opportunities for the opportunistic Byrd. I agree.....dont really like his run support.

 

I think that people are looking at this in way too broad of a view.....

 

Not being able to stop the run affects so many aspects of your defense....turnovers happen when you get a offense out of its comfortable flow and element....if they know they can get a 1st down on every 3rd down play they are going to play free and lose while the defense is on their heels trying to guess run or pass....if you shut a team down on 1st and 2nd down creating long down and distance CONSISTANTLY then you are now dictating to the offense what they have to do as 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 8 are not running downs........this is where you give ball hawks like Byrd a chance to play their coverage a little tighter......and cause a turnover.

 

Im just saying dont be surpised if Byrds numbers dont go up this year.

We switched defenses between his first year and his second. Words from his own mouth: he was far more comfortable in the Jauron defense; it was dirt simple. Remember that under Jauron, the Bills defense was a hospital ward by the end of each season and played a lot of guys off the street, guys that played real hard, and some with almost no practice time. Keeping the D overly simple let them pull this accomplishment off.

[K-9]

A stronger case for making a move to sell tickets was when they brought in Terrell Owens on a 1 year, $6.5M contract to a totally dysfunctional offense with no identity or leadership. The mastermind behind that move was none other than Ralph Wilson himself. TO was marketed and people did buy.

 

And having players that create excitement and sell tickets is wrong because...?

 

Anyway the mastermind behind that move was Brandon, who got the ok from RW. Getting TO didn't break the bank and prevent us from acquiring anyone else. Nor were the Bills in a position to be anything special that season. Creating excitement is a good thing, especially when you're not good enough to create and sustain the excitement that winning games brings all on its own.

 

Would it be preferable to have a team that sucks and NO excitement?

 

There is something worse than getting players simply to sell tickets. That's getting players simply to sell tickets that end up sucking. That's the risk you take.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

And having players that create excitement and sell tickets is wrong because...?

 

Anyway the mastermind behind that move was Brandon, who got the ok from RW. Getting TO didn't break the bank and prevent us from acquiring anyone else. Nor were the Bills in a position to be anything special that season. Creating excitement is a good thing, especially when you're not good enough to create and sustain the excitement that winning games brings all on its own.

 

Would it be preferable to have a team that sucks and NO excitement?

 

There is something worse than getting players simply to sell tickets. That's getting players simply to sell tickets that end up sucking. That's the risk you take.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Like Buddy Nix said, "I'd rather spend the money on my own guys."

 

I'd rather see a winning team that plays great football. So spending on the parts to accomplish that would be a better utilization of the finite cap resources than a "$6.5M buzz spoon". Your premise is that the sucking is not the variable.

 

There is something worse than getting players simply to sell tickets. That's getting players simply to sell tickets that end up sucking. That's the risk you take.

That's a nice summary of the genius of the TO marketing.

[Ramius]

A stronger case for making a move to sell tickets was when they brought in Terrell Owens on a 1 year, $6.5M contract to a totally dysfunctional offense with no identity or leadership. The mastermind behind that move was none other than Ralph Wilson himself. TO was marketed and people did buy.

 

I dont think anyone will argue with you that signing TO was done from an almost purely marketing standpoint. Sure, he helped out on the field, but his effect was bigger on the business side of things.

 

Where Bill is wrong is believing that Spiller was picked in this same vein. I've highlighted why Spiller wasn't a "marketing" pick, and represents a shift to a true BPA selection. Any 1st round pick is going to sell lots of merchandise, but with Spiller the effect on the field is why he was drafted. It can also be argued that if Ralph was trying to make a splash (which he wasn't), he would have called for the Bills to draft a QB, more specifically, Tim Tebow. If i am picking from a purely marketing and $ standpoint, Tebow is the pick, not Spiller.

 

As for ticket sales, individual players don't affect them in football as much as in baseball. If a team sucks, no one is going to show up late in the year, whether you drafted Spiller or Dareus. If a team does good, people are going to fill the stands. Contrast to baseball, where tickets are actually sold based on an individual player and his performance.

[Kelly the Dog]

I would sincerely doubt, as well as bet anything, that since 1960, Ralph Wilson knew anything at all about college players that were drafted after the first round. I'm sure he would know something about, say, guys like Jimmy Clausen, because of the name. But it is not like he scouted them or paid much attention to them, or would order his GM to draft a guy just because he heard of them. The only possible intrusion Ralph could or would or has had would have been at the top half of the draft in the first round. I would also bet any amount of money that he had nothing whatsoever to do with the Spiller pick outside of nodding when Nix and Gailey said this is the guy we want.

[John from Riverside]

I think that's a safe bet. It is tough to go down from one interception and 2 passes defended for a full time starter.

 

Byrd IMO looked lost and out of position at times last season. Unless he gets an understanding of his responsibilities he'll continue to struggle. I don't know how different his responsibilities were in year 2 but he's got to improve to stay on the field.

 

Beer....MOST of the team look lost last year on defense not just Byrd....I am wondering if the only order they gave to Kyle Williams was "just go kill the QB" which is why he looked better.

 

I am not negating Kyles ability....love the kid but the way he gave up his gaps to go after the QB really drove me nuts sometimes.

[K-9]

Like Buddy Nix said, "I'd rather spend the money on my own guys."

 

I'd rather see a winning team that plays great football. So spending on the parts to accomplish that would be a better utilization of the finite cap resources than a "$6.5M buzz spoon". Your premise is that the sucking is not the variable.

 

 

That's a nice summary of the genius of the TO marketing.

 

I think everyone wants winning teams that play great football and nobody wants that more than the Bills organization. We can all keep acting like spending the 6.5 on TO is what prevented us from being a winning team that played great football in 2009. And we can all keep thinking that we all know exactly how that 6.5 would have been better spent and on exactly what players at the time that would have made us a winning team that played great football. And that's all a great part of being a fan.

 

But there is nothing wrong with a team trying to sell excitement to its fan base. Especially when a team's record can't generate that excitement on its own. That's a huge part of running the business. I'd still like to know why trying to sell tickets is a bad thing. Isn't that why teams exist in the first place? Isn't that the first step in the process?

 

My premise isn't about sucking not being the variable. My premise is that sucking has a negative impact on the bottom line and teams will always have to find ways to counteract that. If some want to believe that the Bills are content with just snookering their fans and mollifying them by signing a player simply to sell tickets, so be it. I think that view is cynical and naive.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited May 12, 2011 by K-9

[eball]

A stronger case for making a move to sell tickets was when they brought in Terrell Owens on a 1 year, $6.5M contract to a totally dysfunctional offense with no identity or leadership. The mastermind behind that move was none other than Ralph Wilson himself. TO was marketed and people did buy.

As someone else stated, obtaining TO didn't break the bank or prevent the Bills from doing other things. And, let's face it, TO showed he is still a top notch player and he was hardly a cancer or bad influence in Buffalo.

[K-9]

As someone else stated, obtaining TO didn't break the bank or prevent the Bills from doing other things. And, let's face it, TO showed he is still a top notch player and he was hardly a cancer or bad influence in Buffalo.

 

You just reminded me of what I meant to put in another response. That is that people forget that TO was still a great player AND filled a need at the time. It's quite possible that obtaining a player to sell tickets AND help your team aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bill from NYC]

I dont think anyone will argue with you that signing TO was done from an almost purely marketing standpoint. Sure, he helped out on the field, but his effect was bigger on the business side of things.

 

Where Bill is wrong is believing that Spiller was picked in this same vein. I've highlighted why Spiller wasn't a "marketing" pick, and represents a shift to a true BPA selection. Any 1st round pick is going to sell lots of merchandise, but with Spiller the effect on the field is why he was drafted.

 

And this is where we differ.

 

First of all, the very term "BPA" is WAY over used to the point of being trite imo. But this aside, just how good was CJ Spiller? There were lots of better players available. How much do you invest in these mock drafts? Just because some of them rated Spiller high didn't make him a "value." It is the job of the front office to find players who are very good at #9.

And listen, I am fully aware that a great deal of picks do bust out at the 9 spot, but the Bills were not in a position to use that selection on a situational player. They had some depth at RB, and none at other positions. None. So, what would compel them to draft a part time running back at #9?

 

Again, to think that revenue couldn't factor in (which you say it did with TO) is a bit short sighted imo.

 

I'd still like to know why trying to sell tickets is a bad thing. Isn't that why teams exist in the first place? Isn't that the first step in the process?

GO BILLS!!!

 

It isn't. It's a great thing, but it doesn't necessarily translate into winning football games.

The premise of my OP is of praise for Mr. Wilson for apparently backing off a bit and letting football people do their jobs.

[K-9]

It isn't. It's a great thing, but it doesn't necessarily translate into winning football games.

The premise of my OP is of praise for Mr. Wilson for apparently backing off a bit and letting football people do their jobs.

 

And nothing sells tickets like winning football games.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Guys you do realize that you can name any safety who racks up interceptions like Byrd did and the same thing will be said? They get the majority of their int's by being in the right place at the right time....its called INSTINCTS and Byrd has them

 

There's a big difference between being positioned well or showing the instincts to hawk down the football like Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed do, and just being the beneficiary of brutal opposing QB play from guys like Derek Anderson, Mark Sanchez, and Jake Delhomme.

 

I understand what you are saying, but with all due respect, I still can't condone Byrd playing 10 yards deeper than the opposition's deepest target and just hoping the ball ends up being overthrown or tipped. To me, that is not right place/right time or instinctual, that's benefitting from an awful pass. You could see last year that Byrd continued to play that way, and it cost him greatly. For example, in the Baltimore game, he allowed Todd Heap to catch 2 TDs in front of him in the end zone...how on earth can he think standing behind the TE in the end zone is a smart coverage strategy?

 

Sorry, I'm not meaning to take shots at you, John, I just don't think much of Byrd as a coverage safety...hopefully he can prove me wrong.

 

And this is where we differ.

 

First of all, the very term "BPA" is WAY over used to the point of being trite imo. But this aside, just how good was CJ Spiller? There were lots of better players available. How much do you invest in these mock drafts? Just because some of them rated Spiller high didn't make him a "value." It is the job of the front office to find players who are very good at #9.

 

He ranked 7th in the nation in player scoring with 128 points accounted for, 5th among non-kickers, and 2nd among draft-eligible skill-position players (Toby Gerhardt was 1st). This was despite the fact that the 2010 draft class included only 1 other offensive player from his school being drafted (Jacoby Ford), and that Clemson's passing offense ranked 66th in the nation, behind schools like Wake Forest, Middle Tennesee State, and UB.

 

I'd say he was pretty good.

Edited May 12, 2011 by thebandit27

[John from Riverside]

There's a big difference between being positioned well or showing the instincts to hawk down the football like Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed do, and just being the beneficiary of brutal opposing QB play from guys like Derek Anderson, Mark Sanchez, and Jake Delhomme.

 

I understand what you are saying, but with all due respect, I still can't condone Byrd playing 10 yards deeper than the opposition's deepest target and just hoping the ball ends up being overthrown or tipped. To me, that is not right place/right time or instinctual, that's benefitting from an awful pass. You could see last year that Byrd continued to play that way, and it cost him greatly. For example, in the Baltimore game, he allowed Todd Heap to catch 2 TDs in front of him in the end zone...how on earth can he think standing behind the TE in the end zone is a smart coverage strategy?

 

Sorry, I'm not meaning to take shots at you, John, I just don't think much of Byrd as a coverage safety...hopefully he can prove me wrong.

 

 

 

Hey were just talking here so dont worry about it

 

I have seen him laying off to....but I cant help but wonder if that was by defensive design because were were so bad up front. And lets not kid ourselves......the worst NFL QB we face is still a pretty darn good QB.....the real issue is trust issues with the front seven forcing a incompletion or bad throw......we we cant get ther ethen the safety has to make sure he is in at least a position to make a tackle. PLENTY of Troy P. int's come off of batted balls and bad throws caused by QB pressures

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

That Spiller pick has Coach Gailey written all over it. To my eyes its far less of a jump in logic to accredit the pick to Chan than to Mr. Wilson, who has by all appearances allowed Nix to do his own thing at EVERY other juncture.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Big Bad Boone

[Ramius]

And this is where we differ.

 

First of all, the very term "BPA" is WAY over used to the point of being trite imo. But this aside, just how good was CJ Spiller? There were lots of better players available. How much do you invest in these mock drafts? Just because some of them rated Spiller high didn't make him a "value." It is the job of the front office to find players who are very good at #9.

And listen, I am fully aware that a great deal of picks do bust out at the 9 spot, but the Bills were not in a position to use that selection on a situational player. They had some depth at RB, and none at other positions. None. So, what would compel them to draft a part time running back at #9?

 

Again, to think that revenue couldn't factor in (which you say it did with TO) is a bit short sighted imo.

 

 

 

It isn't. It's a great thing, but it doesn't necessarily translate into winning football games.

The premise of my OP is of praise for Mr. Wilson for apparently backing off a bit and letting football people do their jobs.

 

Just because Spiller didn't have a good rookie season doesn't mean he wasn't highly touted coming out of college. He was one of the most electrifying collegiate players throughout his career at clemson. Spiller was a BPA pick whether or not you like it.

 

But continue on your "only draft fat guys in round 1" tirade, because that's all this thread is really about. You're not really interested in hearing other opinions. Nix drafted Spiller. Nix drafted Dareus. He had the same input on both selections. To think otherwise is the height of foolishness and shows you have nothing more than an axe to grind.

[K-9]

Regarding Byrd:

 

I'm reluctant to offer anything concrete without knowing the precise coverage calls but I can say for certain that job one for a free safety is to keep EVERYTHING in front of him. Depending on the coverage called and coaches preference, that separation can vary so I'm not surprised he provides a big cushion some or even most of the time. Red zone responsibilities are harder to guess at without knowing the calls but suffice to say he is instructed to roll coverage down there. Good QBs and receivers can make DBs look pretty stupid sometimes when that coverage rolls away from the intended target. Byrd should get better with experience in that area.

 

I'd also add that, unlike SSs, free safeties are not asked to provide man coverage.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[PDaDdy]

How's Green Bay's running game? Or New England's?

 

Green Bay pretty damn good with all their injuries and a consensus franchise QB. New England...not so much but you have one of the best QBs to ever play the game and it pains me like you wouldn't believe to say that.

 

What's your point?