The Big Cat Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 The story: http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29151749 LeBron's retraction, or lack thereof: http://bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1336705&position=0 There are plenty of arguments to be made in favor of/against the use of the word "retard." IMO, LeBron's justification today misses the mark. Badly. Thoughts?
Peace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 WAHmbulance. So many people claim words nowadays as the equivalent to the N-word. It's retarded and gay. First, giving any word--including the N-word that you're nto even allowed to say when quoting a person's use of it--that kind of power is stupid. Second, it's arbitrary. Why does the anti-"retard" lobby pick retard to be against over cripple or challenged or idiot or moron (right DC Tom?). I don't care. I don't care that LeBron doesn't care.
Joe Miner Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 WAHmbulance. So many people claim words nowadays as the equivalent to the N-word. It's retarded and gay. In fact it's gaytarded.
Buftex Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I wish people who use words like that could be re-smarted!
Cugalabanza Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 The word does cause a lot of pain. I’ve witnessed it first hand. I worked for a while at a group home for adults with developmental disabilities. Several times, I’ve been with a group in a public place and had someone toss that word out and I’ve afterwards tried to comfort a person who was brought to tears by it. I’ve also seen it when a group of people are just hanging out at home, watching a movie and a character suddenly busts out with that word. Believe me, it has a powerful effect! They know what it means and they feel it in a big way. It’s hurtful. It carries as much menace as any word in our language. I’ve also witnessed how the word actually gains power by its suppression (Lenny Bruce was right about that). In the group home environment, that one word is so forbidden, it takes on a power that is way out of proportion. I understand how some people see it as an example of PC-ness run amok. In the end though, for me, the hurtfullness trumps everything else. In the PG world of popular movies, tv shows, sports, etc... I think the word should be eliminated as much as possible. I’m not advocating censorship, just good taste, consideration and common sense. Lebron’s initial comment I see as a slip--not really a huge deal. But then his non-apology shows his true colors (dick).
The Big Cat Posted May 9, 2011 Author Posted May 9, 2011 The word does cause a lot of pain. I’ve witnessed it first hand. I worked for a while at a group home for adults with developmental disabilities. Several times, I’ve been with a group in a public place and had someone toss that word out and I’ve afterwards tried to comfort a person who was brought to tears by it. I’ve also seen it when a group of people are just hanging out at home, watching a movie and a character suddenly busts out with that word. Believe me, it has a powerful effect! They know what it means and they feel it in a big way. It’s hurtful. It carries as much menace as any word in our language. I’ve also witnessed how the word actually gains power by its suppression (Lenny Bruce was right about that). In the group home environment, that one word is so forbidden, it takes on a power that is way out of proportion. I understand how some people see it as an example of PC-ness run amok. In the end though, for me, the hurtfullness trumps everything else. In the PG world of popular movies, tv shows, sports, etc... I think the word should be eliminated as much as possible. I’m not advocating censorship, just good taste, consideration and common sense. Lebron’s initial comment I see as a slip--not really a huge deal. But then his non-apology shows his true colors (dick). I very much come from the mindset that words are only as powerful as we allow them to be, and that as Lenny Bruce (evidently) said, the more we incubate the malevolence of the word, the more the monster grows. Hurtful words won't go away if we just keep moving the target. First it was retarded, then challenged, then special, then disabled, then differently abled, and now intellectually challenged. It really doesn't matter WHAT we call them, the condition itself doesn't change. And regardless of who is affected by the condition, be it the person him/herself, be it his or her family, whomever, life under those conditions makes for some hurtful times. But just like this nonsense with peanut allergies these days, you can't project that hurt onto others, by vilifying THEM because of the fragility of your situation. Using tactless language is a sign of immaturity, and rarely does the immature person respond well when they're scolded for something that simply doesn't register with them. HOWEVER, LeBron's justification for how and why he used the word: terribly, terribly inappropriate.
The Big Cat Posted May 9, 2011 Author Posted May 9, 2011 This controversy is retarded. Just to play Devil's Advocate: LeBron said today that he used the term to mean "stupid." Well, yes, people who are "retarded" tend to be "stupid." Now what if we substituted a variation of the n-word to describe a behavior that tends to exist predominately in the black community. Would this controversy be less retarded?
KD in CA Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 What a weak society we've become when we condition people to be 'offended' and 'hurt' by random words that aren't even directed at that person, and look for any excuse to vilify someone for nothing more than uttering one of the many, many taboo words. Unless someone is calling YOU a retard, I really don't see how simply hearing the word should create a problem for anybody.
ajzepp Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 What a weak society we've become when we condition people to be 'offended' and 'hurt' by random words that aren't even directed at that person, and look for any excuse to vilify someone for nothing more than uttering one of the many, many taboo words. Unless someone is calling YOU a retard, I really don't see how simply hearing the word should create a problem for anybody. I agree. I work in healthcare and am as sensitive to cognitive/physical disabilities as anyone else. But "retard" is slang, and it's obviously not meant to be an attack on people with actual disabilities. It is so unrelated to the "N" word that it's not even worth going into.
Rob's House Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 WAHmbulance. So many people claim words nowadays as the equivalent to the N-word. It's retarded and gay. First, giving any word--including the N-word that you're nto even allowed to say when quoting a person's use of it--that kind of power is stupid. Second, it's arbitrary. Why does the anti-"retard" lobby pick retard to be against over cripple or challenged or idiot or moron (right DC Tom?). I don't care. I don't care that LeBron doesn't care. I agree with what you said, but I'm curious; given the context, would it have been appropriate to spell the word "!@#$" or is it so taboo that "the N word" is necessary? Since the harm in a word is derived from it's meaning and intent, it seems retarded to get upset over phonetics.
The Big Cat Posted May 10, 2011 Author Posted May 10, 2011 I agree with what you said, but I'm curious; given the context, would it have been appropriate to spell the word "!@#$" or is it so taboo that "the N word" is necessary? Since the harm in a word is derived from it's meaning and intent, it seems retarded to get upset over phonetics. Only thing preventing me from using it in this thread was posting from a work computer.
Peace Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I agree with what you said, but I'm curious; given the context, would it have been appropriate to spell the word "!@#$" or is it so taboo that "the N word" is necessary? Since the harm in a word is derived from it's meaning and intent, it seems retarded to get upset over phonetics. And the only thing preventing me is the board rules, which would probably be enforced for using it, although I see you just said it so I'm wrong. !@#$ is a word--when used in the context of calling a black person "!@#$" disparagingly, it is horrifically offensive. When using it in the context of talking about offensive words, I don't see why people get their panties in a bunch. Comparing the words !@#$ and retard doesn't work for me. I don't see how you can call someone !@#$ and not be disparaging a black person in the worst way imaginable. I wouldn't call a white guy a !@#$ because it makes no sense. Calling a mentally handicapped person a retard would be similarly awful--but calling a person of allegedly normal intelligence a retard--I don't see how that hurts the mentally handicapped person. "Retard" is shorthand for dumb, idiot, moron, etc. !@#$ is shorthand for racial hatred. Big difference.
ajzepp Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 And the only thing preventing me is the board rules, which would probably be enforced for using it, although I see you just said it so I'm wrong. !@#$ is a word--when used in the context of calling a black person "!@#$" disparagingly, it is horrifically offensive. When using it in the context of talking about offensive words, I don't see why people get their panties in a bunch. Comparing the words !@#$ and retard doesn't work for me. I don't see how you can call someone !@#$ and not be disparaging a black person in the worst way imaginable. I wouldn't call a white guy a !@#$ because it makes no sense. Calling a mentally handicapped person a retard would be similarly awful--but calling a person of allegedly normal intelligence a retard--I don't see how that hurts the mentally handicapped person. "Retard" is shorthand for dumb, idiot, moron, etc. !@#$ is shorthand for racial hatred. Big difference. Exactly. The white man is not trying to keep the retard down.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Agreed with KD and AJ on the "retard" issue. As for this "N-word vs !@#$" issue... I agree with what you said, but I'm curious; given the context, would it have been appropriate to spell the word "!@#$" or is it so taboo that "the N word" is necessary? Since the harm in a word is derived from it's meaning and intent, it seems retarded to get upset over phonetics. Louis C.K. has a great bit about how the term "the N-word" is worse than just saying "!@#$". Basically because the speaker refuses to take responsibility for using the word, but when you hear someone say "the N-word" it puts "!@#$" in your head. The onus should be on the person using it, if they want/need to say, then say it. Dont put the responsibility of thinking crappy thoughts on someone else. Here's the clip of the bit, obviously some very bad language, but it's so perfectly brilliant:
Rico Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I agree. I work in healthcare and am as sensitive to cognitive/physical disabilities as anyone else. But "retard" is slang, and it's obviously not meant to be an attack on people with actual disabilities. It is so unrelated to the "N" word that it's not even worth going into. Nevertheless, it's always good to say LeBron.
Dante Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 The media is retarded. Or a real slow news day. I know next to nothing about Lebron James. Don't care to. Just know that he has a right to say whatever he wants without the pc thought police demanding explanations. Go Lebron! slur away
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