mike oxhurtz Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Good post. But I think Parrish stays, just as long as he remains healthy. Parrish had his best season under Gailey last year and was more productive than Evans (until he got hurt). I agree about Evans. Evans gets this season (if there is one) to show Gailey & Co that he can improve on his route running (which Gailey publicly criticized him for) and to show that he can be more productive. If not, Evans will either be traded or cut loose. For those that disagree with this, look at the rookie WR's last year, they busted their butts off and had more of an impact on the team than Evans did. Evans has been in the league for 8 years now, he should know how to run routes, there's no excuse you can use for Evans' poor route running. Oh, but wait now Jerry, Evans hasn't been playing with Manning, Brady or Brees, he needs one of those QB's to succeed again! Evans hasn't had a O-line that could block long enough to give the QB 5 minutes in the pocket. Evans hasn't had the best offensive coordinators in the league to help him out with his route running, so it's the coordinators fault, not Evans. Don't the Bills coaches know that Evans doesn't need to run a route, all Evans needs to do is run straight and deep, and all the QB has to do is throw him the ball. I just don't know how the Bills offensive coordinators and QB's haven't figured that one out already?
thebandit27 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Oh, but wait now Jerry, Evans hasn't been playing with Manning, Brady or Brees, he needs one of those QB's to succeed again! Evans hasn't had a O-line that could block long enough to give the QB 5 minutes in the pocket. Evans hasn't had the best offensive coordinators in the league to help him out with his route running, so it's the coordinators fault, not Evans. Don't the Bills coaches know that Evans doesn't need to run a route, all Evans needs to do is run straight and deep, and all the QB has to do is throw him the ball. I just don't know how the Bills offensive coordinators and QB's haven't figured that one out already? The last time the team had relatively competant QB play for an entire season (Losman in 2006), Evans had 82 catches for 1,292 yards and 8 TDs. Perhaps given similar QB play for a 16-game season, you'd see the same thing from him. Now, if Fitz puts together a nice 16-game season (rather than 4 or 5 good games out of 13) and you don't see production from Evans, I'll agree with you.
reddogblitz Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 did he really say David or did he mean Shawn? He said David Nelson.
Hplarrm Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Good post. But I think Parrish stays, just as long as he remains healthy. Parrish had his best season under Gailey last year and was more productive than Evans (until he got hurt). I agree about Evans. Evans gets this season (if there is one) to show Gailey & Co that he can improve on his route running (which Gailey publicly criticized him for) and to show that he can be more productive. If not, Evans will either be traded or cut loose. For those that disagree with this, look at the rookie WR's last year, they busted their butts off and had more of an impact on the team than Evans did. Evans has been in the league for 8 years now, he should know how to run routes, there's no excuse you can use for Evans' poor route running. Do you have the quote or a link to Gailey calling Evans out? I ask this not because I disbelieve this or do not think that Evans need to elevate his performance to justify his huge contract or the thoughts about what he should produce. I am interested in seeing the quote to try to determine what Gailey was doing. I hope to be able to tell from the quote whether he thinks Evans has not shown the ability to be a #1 and he needs to work harder to overcome his lack of talent, or Evans has the skillset needed but needs to work harder to produce using what he has. This makes a big difference in whether you decide to end the Evans era by emphasizing Stevie Johnson as your #1 or work to acquire someone else because you do not have a #1 talent. My belief is the situation is the former. Evans has actually shown some real productivity in his career as a Bill. In essence he is the third most productive WR we have ever had (behind Reed and Dubenion) and this is demonstrated objectively by his catch #s, yards, and TDs. For someone to merely ignore these tangible numbers and claim some subjective case that they he is a poor route runner or they do not like how he carries himself ends up saying more about the commentator than about Evans in terms of who has a problem. Again, all this being said, this does not mean that Evans does not have shortcomings or that he does not have to work hard to improve his game. He does! However, one needs to acknowledge if you want to be taken seriously that: 1. He clearly has not produced at a level that one could honestly call him one of the best in the NFL, matches the huge contract he has (and deserved due to timing and potential but is yet unearned in terms of production)or consistent Pro Bowl recognition, However, 2. He clearly has shown he is dangerous receiver with great speed capable of racking up 3 TD and even 200 yard games if the opponent does not respect him with top flight coverage. 2. While no one mistakes him for Andre Reed (who simply owned the middle of the field while also having ample speed to run fly patterns), Evans numbers demonstrate he catches the ball both on fly patterns which utilize his speed and also in traffic in the center of the field. Again he is not the best we have ever seen in making circus catches where he simply outduals DBs for the ball (Eric Moulds was a great athletic performer who demonstrated great physical ability to go get the ball on many plays, but too bad he was a bit of a head case who would simply disappear in games from time to time if the opponent got in his head). I think Evans has demonstrated time and again he has the basic tools but despite a couple of brief runs with JP he and a QB have never developed a simpatico relationship which was demonstrated by Reed/Kelly( Comparing them to the best asks too much but there needs to be some hint of he and Fitzy (or whomever) being always on the same page. 3. Stevie Johnson demonstrated objectively he is a receiving force not to be discounted by the opponent. That being said, he still is frighteningly inconsistent as seen by him essentially failing to win a game for us last year by dropping an endzone pass he was wide open to catch (in this case in part due to tremendous route running and him being on the same page as Fitzy). Johnson virtually has certainly profited from Evans demanding likely double coverage as he can catch the ball both over the top due to his speed or underneath on crossing patterns which he has not mastered but does not seem to fear. Evans demands the best CB if an opponent is willing to risk single coverage but most teams do not have a Revis so they double Evans over and under. This gives Stevie Johnson more room to roam. Overall, in addition to Evans needing to work harder to run routes in a precise manner not merely to get him more open, he also needs to run decoy routes better to take attention even further away from Johnson. We will know Evans is running routes better by objective standards such as him getting more TDs and yards if it happens, but also by subjective measures such Stevie Johnson continuing to increase his production. When the announcers start talking about Evans and Johnson as a duo which works together well, it means the Bills are seeing enough complimentary route running by Evans that the Bills braintrust is confident talking it up. Even better if the opposing DBs and DC are talking about this as a challenge it will be a sign of better improved route running by Evans. The key here though is that if someone actually understands football they can reconcile the fact that just because Evans needs to and can improve his route running it does not necessarily mean he is a bad route runner.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Why was Evans' route running never a problem before? Just throw the guy the ball, Chan. He'll make a play on it as he did his entire career before you got here.
reddogblitz Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Just throw the guy the ball, Chan. He'll make a play on it as he did his entire career before you got here. Amen. I really don't get the Lee bashing around here. He's one of he few guys we have that could be starting on other NFL teams. Just throw him the football. I've seen him catch 'em over the middle. I've seem him catch short passes. And I've seen him make circus catches. And then people around here want to cut him or trade him for a 4th rounder so we can play Easley. Criminy Louise !! Perpetual rebuilding mode at it's finest.
NewEra Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Buddy Nix is thinking about it. On the season ticket holder con call, when asked about a TE, Buddy said we may already have some. He said that most TEs can either catch or block. He talked about trying out David Nelson as a pass catching TE and using someone else as a blocking TE. So you would release Roscoe and Lee so you could keep Donald Jones? If anyone goes, it's Donald Jones. Talk about a spare. Lee is a very good receiver and Roscoe is a water bug. Remember, Coach Gailey likes water bugs. Is lee Evans a better WR that jones? Yes! Does lee evans produce like a 8 million dollar player? No! Remember, Owner Wilson likes low salaries.
Jerry Jabber Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Do you have the quote or a link to Gailey calling Evans out? I ask this not because I disbelieve this or do not think that Evans need to elevate his performance to justify his huge contract or the thoughts about what he should produce. I am interested in seeing the quote to try to determine what Gailey was doing. I hope to be able to tell from the quote whether he thinks Evans has not shown the ability to be a #1 and he needs to work harder to overcome his lack of talent, or Evans has the skillset needed but needs to work harder to produce using what he has. This makes a big difference in whether you decide to end the Evans era by emphasizing Stevie Johnson as your #1 or work to acquire someone else because you do not have a #1 talent. My belief is the situation is the former. Evans has actually shown some real productivity in his career as a Bill. In essence he is the third most productive WR we have ever had (behind Reed and Dubenion) and this is demonstrated objectively by his catch #s, yards, and TDs. For someone to merely ignore these tangible numbers and claim some subjective case that they he is a poor route runner or they do not like how he carries himself ends up saying more about the commentator than about Evans in terms of who has a problem. Again, all this being said, this does not mean that Evans does not have shortcomings or that he does not have to work hard to improve his game. He does! However, one needs to acknowledge if you want to be taken seriously that: 1. He clearly has not produced at a level that one could honestly call him one of the best in the NFL, matches the huge contract he has (and deserved due to timing and potential but is yet unearned in terms of production)or consistent Pro Bowl recognition, However, 2. He clearly has shown he is dangerous receiver with great speed capable of racking up 3 TD and even 200 yard games if the opponent does not respect him with top flight coverage. 2. While no one mistakes him for Andre Reed (who simply owned the middle of the field while also having ample speed to run fly patterns), Evans numbers demonstrate he catches the ball both on fly patterns which utilize his speed and also in traffic in the center of the field. Again he is not the best we have ever seen in making circus catches where he simply outduals DBs for the ball (Eric Moulds was a great athletic performer who demonstrated great physical ability to go get the ball on many plays, but too bad he was a bit of a head case who would simply disappear in games from time to time if the opponent got in his head). I think Evans has demonstrated time and again he has the basic tools but despite a couple of brief runs with JP he and a QB have never developed a simpatico relationship which was demonstrated by Reed/Kelly( Comparing them to the best asks too much but there needs to be some hint of he and Fitzy (or whomever) being always on the same page. 3. Stevie Johnson demonstrated objectively he is a receiving force not to be discounted by the opponent. That being said, he still is frighteningly inconsistent as seen by him essentially failing to win a game for us last year by dropping an endzone pass he was wide open to catch (in this case in part due to tremendous route running and him being on the same page as Fitzy). Johnson virtually has certainly profited from Evans demanding likely double coverage as he can catch the ball both over the top due to his speed or underneath on crossing patterns which he has not mastered but does not seem to fear. Evans demands the best CB if an opponent is willing to risk single coverage but most teams do not have a Revis so they double Evans over and under. This gives Stevie Johnson more room to roam. Overall, in addition to Evans needing to work harder to run routes in a precise manner not merely to get him more open, he also needs to run decoy routes better to take attention even further away from Johnson. We will know Evans is running routes better by objective standards such as him getting more TDs and yards if it happens, but also by subjective measures such Stevie Johnson continuing to increase his production. When the announcers start talking about Evans and Johnson as a duo which works together well, it means the Bills are seeing enough complimentary route running by Evans that the Bills braintrust is confident talking it up. Even better if the opposing DBs and DC are talking about this as a challenge it will be a sign of better improved route running by Evans. The key here though is that if someone actually understands football they can reconcile the fact that just because Evans needs to and can improve his route running it does not necessarily mean he is a bad route runner. Ask, and you shall receive: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/3/23/2067266/lee-evans-chan-gailey-buffalo-bills Since Losman was let go and coincedently, after Evans signed his big contract extension, his numbers went down dramatically. Granted in 2009, there was a lot of turmoil on the team, so that can be excusable. But last year, all the young WR's outshined Evans. They busted their butts off and looked better than Evans did. So, if Evans can't improve on his underneath routes and become more productive, then he'll either be traded or cut the following year.
Buftex Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 amazing he has a football career after ozzie and harriet Even more amazing, he just died a few months ago!!!
mike oxhurtz Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 The last time the team had relatively competant QB play for an entire season (Losman in 2006), Evans had 82 catches for 1,292 yards and 8 TDs. Perhaps given similar QB play for a 16-game season, you'd see the same thing from him. Now, if Fitz puts together a nice 16-game season (rather than 4 or 5 good games out of 13) and you don't see production from Evans, I'll agree with you. Here's the info from the Buffalo Rumblings article on Evans: "According to Allen Wilson of The Buffalo News, Gailey came right out and said that Evans needs to become more consistent as a route-runner. That's rather harsh commentary for a receiver entering his eighth professional season. Gailey is also concerned about broadening Evans' horizons within his offense. "He's been more of a deep threat," Gailey said Tuesday. "I've got to get him to do a better job of becoming an underneath threat. I've got to do a better job of that." Evans finished the 2010 season on IR - his first NFL injury - and with just 37 catches (a career low), 578 yards (a career low) and four touchdowns (the second-lowest total of his career). Aside from one game in Baltimore (6-105-3), Evans was an also-ran in Buffalo's offense, while unproven teammate Stevie Johnson put up Pro Bowl-worthy numbers (82-1,073-10)." http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/3/23/2067266/lee-evans-chan-gailey-buffalo-bills I don't know if Evans packed it in after signing his fat contract extension, is mad that his boy Losman is no longer on the team or lost motivation since the Bills have sucked since he's been on the team, but somethings up with the guy. Evans used to make great, athletic plays (such as tipped-toed catches in the endzone), but over the last two years, we've seen him drop numerous passes and not look like the same player he once was.
John from Riverside Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I thought I saw the play of the offense drop a lot when Lee went down on IR....not because he was putting up great numbers but becasue teams were respecting his speed......it was allowing our other WR's to run underneath that coverage.
theranter Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Until the Bills find a deep speed guy, lee is staying. Every offense works better with a burner like Lee. Parrish and Jones stay as well, they both double as valuable special teamers. The Bills have a good problem here and will keep 7 if Naamon forces them to.... gobills!
hammie65 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Until the Bills find a deep speed guy, lee is staying. Every offense works better with a burner like Lee. Parrish and Jones stay as well, they both double as valuable special teamers. The Bills have a good problem here and will keep 7 if Naamon forces them to.... gobills! I agree! You nailed it short and sweet. David Nelson will be one heck of a receiver as well if\as this team continues to improve overall. Hopefully Shawn Nelson will be that tight end we need. I am also hoping that Scott Chandler can step it up and contribute at TE as well, I just hope there's a season to find out. Edited May 10, 2011 by hammie65
reddogblitz Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 "He's been more of a deep threat," Gailey said Tuesday. "I've got to get him to do a better job of becoming an underneath threat. I've got to do a better job of that." ===================================== I don't know if Evans packed it in after signing his fat contract extension, is mad that his boy Losman is no longer on the team or lost motivation since the Bills have sucked since he's been on the team, but somethings up with the guy. Evans used to make great, athletic plays (such as tipped-toed catches in the endzone), but over the last two years, we've seen him drop numerous passes and not look like the same player he once was. I saw Lee make several circus catches this year AND last year. Lee's biggest problem in his career in Buffalo has been on the other end of the football. The guys throwing it to him have, for the most part, sucked, and were too chicken to air it out to him. A good QB who's not afraid to throw him the football and Coach Gailey doing a better job of making him an underneath threat would do wonders for your perception of him.
Jerry Jabber Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Some people just think it's just as simple to air it out to Evans everytime. Evans does not have the physical capability to outmuscle DB's and can't shake the double teams. Evans cannot stay a one-dimensional player (a deep threat) if he wants to be successful. Everyone was so use to seeing Losman air it out to Evans, in which people got accustomed to. But Losman only had a good deep ball, his short to intermediate game sucked. So if Evans does not improve on his underneath routes and his route running in general, then he will be off the team soon.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Evans has never been a one-dimensional deep threat and never will be. He's made plays on all kinds of routes... Just a matter of Chan and Fitz having confidence and chemistry with Evans. Way too many balls went Stevie J's way last year. Lee has been a great receiver his whole career, why wouldn't he be now? He's made circus catches and big plays on posts and digs and slants and every other route in the book. Just throw him the ball and watch him make plays for you, he's a proven weapon. Edited May 11, 2011 by Big Bad Boone
billsfan89 Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 Nelson as a big slot receiver in place of a tighend could work. Chan's system doesn't seem to use tight ends.
reddogblitz Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Evans has never been a one-dimensional deep threat and never will be. He's made plays on all kinds of routes... Just a matter of Chan and Fitz having confidence an chemistry with Evans. Way too many balls went Stevie J's way last year. Lee has been a great receiver his whole career, why wouldn't he be now? He's made crircus catches and big plays on posts and digs and slants and every other route in the book. Just throw him the ball and watch him make plays for you, he's a proven weapon. Thank You. I'm with ya. I don't know where this BS stereotype that all Lee can do is go long came from. It's silly. If you watch the games for yourself instead of sucking into some of the TBD drivel you could see as plain as the nose on your face. Lee is a major league receiver. I'm glad we have him and look forward to watching him again this season (if there is one). Edited May 11, 2011 by reddogblitz
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Thank You. I'm with ya. I don't know where this BS stereotype that all Lee can do is go long came from. It's silly. If you watch the games for yourself instead of sucking into some of the TBD drivel you could see as plain as the nose on your face. Lee is a major league receiver. I'm glad we have him and look forward to watching him again this season (if there is one). Every player has to take criticism...this is a small and incredibly fast WR so it's natural for a critic to call him a one-trick pony. Personally I've seen him make too many plays in the intermediate game to agree. I do think he rested on his laurels a bit last year, but moreso I feel he was way under-utilized. Any route that Stevie J can run Lee Evans can run, Chan and Fitz need to Free Lee. Edited May 11, 2011 by Big Bad Boone
mike oxhurtz Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) In 2009, I gave Evans a pass due to the instability at coaching that year. But, Fitz showed last year he is willing to throw the ball to anyone on the team (veteran or UDFA). There was no excuse for Evans' pathetic numbers last year. Parrish was an afterthought with Jauron and look how well he performed under Gailey, he outplayed Evans until he landed on IR. Back to the topic, I like D. Nelson and I look forward to seeing him as a starter this year. He is the redzone threat that Jauron was hoping to get w/Hardy. I just hope Nelson packs on more muscle, so he won't be injury prone (looks skinny, IMO). I was glad to see the chemistry between him & Fitz last year. Edited May 11, 2011 by mike oxhurtz
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