PleskowPlayer Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 The thread ranking Modrak's first round picks was fun but I was suprised how many defenders Modrak had. It always seemed to be someone else's fault - meddling owner, coach (Maybin was Jauron's pick!), GM (Losman was Donahue's brainchild!), etc. I thought it would be interesting to look at Modrak's second round picks. Presumably there would be less interference from owner, coach or GM. Also, if Modrak's job was to rank the best at a particular position while the GM made the call on a particular player, you could judge how well Modrak did his job. Finally, second and third round picks are the heart and soul of most championship teams so it should be telling to see how Modrak did with his second round picks. Here goes (read 'em & weep): 1) Levitre '09 G - dependable starter, promising start to career; traded up to get him; 2) Byrd '09 S - great rookie season, jury still out to large extent; 3) Kelsey - '03 DE - OK defensive end, nothing special; durable; passed over DE Osi Uminyora who was selected a few picks later; 4) Posluszny - '07 LB - OK MLB, nothing special; traded up to get him; passed over LB David Harris 5) J. Reed - '02 WR - OK third down receiver, nothing special, lasted a long time as a Bill; 6) Parrish - '05 WR/PR - great punt returner, mediocre receiver, lasted long time as a Bill, passed over Vincent Jackson; 7) Denney - '02 DE - serviceable backup; traded up to get him to screw the Steelers out of the pick; they selected Antwan Randle-El who won a Super Bowl for them; 8) Hardy - '08 WR - total bust; passed on Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson because we "needed" a big receiver. Bottom-line is kind of interesting - only one true bust (unlike the first round picks). A ton of serviceable guys who might have fit in better if overall team talent was better. On the other hand, if Modrak's job was to rank players, that's a lot of mistakes in just a few years. A "C" sounds fair. So Antwan Randle-El won superbowls yeah your statements are C's
Orton's Arm Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Sure Parrish has a very high punt return average, but what's that really worth? An average of 2 per game, an extra 5-6 yards vs. an average return man gives you about 10-12 yards advantage per game. That's something, but it's not going to change many games. Getting some decent tackles could probably save one holding penalty a game and that's about the same yardage. Othewise, my problem with the list is that it's a bunch of average guys. Several starters yes, but averages ones on a below average team. Compared to the list of first round disasters it looks ok, but there's not an outstanding performer in a bunch (w/ the jury still out on Levitre). I agree completely. With this many second rounders, you'd hope for at least some of them to be above-average players, perhaps even a star or two. If you were to compare those eight second round picks to eight second rounders from other teams, I'd guess that the tops of their lists look a lot better than the tops of ours. But our 4th or 5th best guy is probably comparable to, or even slightly better than, their 4th or 5th best.
Malazan Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I was curious how the 2nd round picks matched up with the other teams in the division straight up. No frills, if and or buts.. Patriots: 2000 46 Adrian Klemm T Hawaii 2001 48 Matt Light T Purdue 2002 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville 2003 36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois 2003 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M 2004 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State 2005 No Pick 2006 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida 2007 No Pick 2008 62 Terrence Wheatley CB Colorado 2009 34 Pat Chung DB Oregon 2009 40 Ron Brace DT Boston College 2009 41 Darius Butler DB Connecticut 2009 58 Sebastian Vollmer T Houston Miami: 2000 53 Todd Wade T Mississippi 2001 52 Chris Chambers WR Wisconsin 2002 No Pick 2003 49 Eddie Moore LB Tennessee 2004 No Pick 2005 46 Matt Roth DE Iowa 2006 No Pick 2007 40 John Beck QB Brigham Young 2007 60 Samson Satele C Hawaii 2008 32 Phillip Merling DE Clemson 2008 57 Chad Henne QB Michigan 2009 44 Pat White QB West Virginia 2009 61 Sean Smith DB Utah Jets: 2000 No Pick (note: four first round picks) 2001 49 LaMont Jordan RB Maryland 2002 57 Jon McGraw DB Kansas State 2003 53 Victor Hobson LB Michigan 2004 No Pick 2005 47 Mike Nugent K Ohio State 2005 57 Justin Miller CB Clemson 2006 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon 2007 47 David Harris ILB Michigan 2008 No Pick 2009 No Pick Bills: 2000 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 2001 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2001 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 2002 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2002 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 2003 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 2004 No Pick 2005 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 2006 No Pick 2007 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 2008 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 2009 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2009 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State Edited May 9, 2011 by jeremy2020
NoSaint Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I was curious how the 2nd round picks matched up with the other teams in the division straight up. No frills, if and or buts.. Patriots: 2000 46 Adrian Klemm T Hawaii 2001 48 Matt Light T Purdue 2002 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville 2003 36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois 2003 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M 2004 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State 2005 No Pick 2006 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida 2007 No Pick 2008 62 Terrence Wheatley CB Colorado 2009 34 Pat Chung DB Oregon 2009 40 Ron Brace DT Boston College 2009 41 Darius Butler DB Connecticut 2009 58 Sebastian Vollmer T Houston Miami: 2000 53 Todd Wade T Mississippi 2001 52 Chris Chambers WR Wisconsin 2002 No Pick 2003 49 Eddie Moore LB Tennessee 2004 No Pick 2005 46 Matt Roth DE Iowa 2006 No Pick 2007 40 John Beck QB Brigham Young 2007 60 Samson Satele C Hawaii 2008 32 Phillip Merling DE Clemson 2008 57 Chad Henne QB Michigan 2009 44 Pat White QB West Virginia 2009 61 Sean Smith DB Utah Jets: 2000 No Pick (note: four first round picks) 2001 49 LaMont Jordan RB Maryland 2002 57 Jon McGraw DB Kansas State 2003 53 Victor Hobson LB Michigan 2004 No Pick 2005 47 Mike Nugent K Ohio State 2005 57 Justin Miller CB Clemson 2006 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon 2007 47 David Harris ILB Michigan 2008 No Pick 2009 No Pick Bills: 2000 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 2001 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2001 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 2002 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2002 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 2003 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 2004 No Pick 2005 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 2006 No Pick 2007 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 2008 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 2009 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2009 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State When you put it that way, it's hard to argue- first round and free agent whiffs along with letting the wrong guys walk is what killed the decade, eh?
Dragonborn10 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 levitre was a good pick. Last season Troup is a big boy but the jury is still out on him, Byrd was a nice find and I remember reading he was in demand early in round 2. Kelsey has been an adequate player for a long time Poz is a good player and the guy the fans wanted Reed was a much better player than people give him credit for. One of the best blocking receiver in the NFL in his day and great after the catchParrish has been a dynamic player in special teams and when a coach finally gave him a shot last year he was a good receiver too Denny was a good player and nice depth on our D line Hardy was bad, One TD...just bad I defy you to find one play on You tube or anywhere where he broke a tackle. Just because he used to be a runing back meant nothing in the NFL. He was horrible.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I was curious how the 2nd round picks matched up with the other teams in the division straight up. No frills, if and or buts.. Patriots: 2000 46 Adrian Klemm T Hawaii 2001 48 Matt Light T Purdue 2002 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville 2003 36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois 2003 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M 2004 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State 2005 No Pick 2006 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida 2007 No Pick 2008 62 Terrence Wheatley CB Colorado 2009 34 Pat Chung DB Oregon 2009 40 Ron Brace DT Boston College 2009 41 Darius Butler DB Connecticut 2009 58 Sebastian Vollmer T Houston Miami: 2000 53 Todd Wade T Mississippi 2001 52 Chris Chambers WR Wisconsin 2002 No Pick 2003 49 Eddie Moore LB Tennessee 2004 No Pick 2005 46 Matt Roth DE Iowa 2006 No Pick 2007 40 John Beck QB Brigham Young 2007 60 Samson Satele C Hawaii 2008 32 Phillip Merling DE Clemson 2008 57 Chad Henne QB Michigan 2009 44 Pat White QB West Virginia 2009 61 Sean Smith DB Utah Jets: 2000 No Pick (note: four first round picks) 2001 49 LaMont Jordan RB Maryland 2002 57 Jon McGraw DB Kansas State 2003 53 Victor Hobson LB Michigan 2004 No Pick 2005 47 Mike Nugent K Ohio State 2005 57 Justin Miller CB Clemson 2006 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon 2007 47 David Harris ILB Michigan 2008 No Pick 2009 No Pick Bills: 2000 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 2001 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2001 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 2002 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2002 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 2003 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 2004 No Pick 2005 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 2006 No Pick 2007 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 2008 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 2009 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2009 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State Thanks for doing the work! Good stuff and pretty interesting.
Bill from NYC Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 For the sake of this football discussion, I will rate a combination of both the player's ability and the sensibility of pick itself. These are only my opinions, and I'm not trying to convince anybody that I am fully correct. 1) Levitre: GREAT pick. I would have been happy with him at the end of round 1 if they took him instead of Wood. He played LT in college and it was clear that he would be good at pass protection. Grade A 2)Byrd: The team that selected after us traded away the pick and got a nice first round pick in the following draft. It is very safe to assume that we got the same offer, but Dumbo Jauron simply HAD to take another early DB. He had a great rookie year, and a not so good second year. He looks to have gained weight and slowed down. He wasn't what this team needed. Grade: C, and I am being very generous imo. 3) Kelsay: He is, and always was small. However, taking a chance on a player who can rush the QB is usually not a bad idea, and Kelsay does have some speed for a DE. Who knew that on running plays, he could be mowed down by a blocking tight end, let alone a good OT? Grade: C-, and you are seeing my kindness once again. 4) Poz: I continue to like his skillset to a degree. He gets injured quite a bit but it's tough to blame the Bills front office for this. Trading up enters into the equation as well. Grade: C+, and I would go higher if he was healthier. Perhaps. 5) Josh Reed: He started out well, no? I will always think that if Josh started his career on a team that could block, he would have had a better run. He lacked speed, and the qb was often sacked before he got a chance to catch a pass. But, he ran very good routes and got open. Grade: B-. I always had some respect for Reed. He was a strong player for his position. 6) Parrish: Keep in mind the fact that Roscoe was our first pick in this draft. We were noticably weak, and wasted it on a gadget player. This type of blatant idiocy was what pissed me off so much about the Spiller selection. He at times shows flash and some skills. He has sold a few tickets to be sure, but he has doesn't have enough skills to push a losing, weak team over the mountain of failure. He would get a much better rating from me if the team that selected him was solid and strong. Grade: C-, and this is less of a reflection upon Roscoe than it is of the stupidity of whoever was most responsible for the pick. 7) Denney: He has made a few plays over the years. A good depth player and that's OK, but I want more from a second round pick. Grade: C- 8) Hardy: The kid turned out to be an awful pick, but imo injuries were a huge factor in this. He was big, and could have been very useful if he had developed. Therefore, I am going to be generous once again wrt my rating. Grade: D+ Note: When rating the 2nd round pick of 2011 in the future, remember that Nix said that there were numerous trade down offers. After the season it would be good to ask whether you would be happier with A. Williams, or an additional 1st round pick in 2012. Jmo.
EastRochBillsfan Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Huh??? http://www.nfl.com/players/joshreed/profile?id=REE314559 I defy you to find one play on You tube or anywhere where he broke a tackle. Just because he used to be a runing back meant nothing in the NFL. He was horrible. I'm not sure about the yac or broken tackles, but the hell josh Reed was horrible. Not only was he a great blocker, he was a first down machine.
2003Contenders Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Can't find. He was supposed/hoped to be good after the cacth, but I didn't think it ever materialized. His yards/catch is 11, which doesn't indicate high YAC, and for his career he had only 11 TDs. I always thought that Reed was the classic case of a guy being mismanaged by blundering coaches. He came into the league as a prototypical slot receiver: tough, good hands. I actually loved that pick at the time that the Bills made it. When he played that role as a rookie (in Bledsoe's single magical season with the Bills) he was quite effective. However, the following year, when the Bills asked him to replace Peerless Price, they essentially placed a square peg in a round hole. He had a couple of high profile drops that year -- and I think it ate at his confidence (Similar to what that that Pittsburgh game did to Steve Johnson last year).
KD in CA Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 For the sake of this football discussion, I will rate a combination of both the player's ability and the sensibility of pick itself. These are only my opinions, and I'm not trying to convince anybody that I am fully correct. Pretty much spot on as usual Bill. Thanks.
Bob in STL Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Ranked in order: 1) Levitre '09 G - B+ good player that will get better. 2) Byrd '09 S - C+ great rookie season, last season was dissappointing, seemed to play very deep and was not a factor. Jury still out. 3) Posluszny - '07 LB - C+, OK MLB, injury riddled. 4) Parrish - '05 WR/PR - C+ good punt returner, decent receiver, potential to be better if they use him like they did last year. 5) Kelsey - '03 DE - C OK defensive end, average player when not at LB. 6) J. Reed - '02 WR - C OK third receiver, good blocker but had trouble with drops for awhile, expected more production. 7) Denney - '02 DE - C serviceable backup and rotation player. 8) Hardy - '08 WR - F we were looking for a big receiver and we found a a bad football player instead. Average score = C- , only 4 legitimate starters (Levitre, Byrd, Poz, and maybe Kelsey). Overall - many below average players as a whole from the #2 spot when i would hope for an average score of B; fewer busts than the #1 picks. Another reason this team has been losing. rouns 1, 2 and 3 have been mostly horrible for along time. As noted, lots of better players passed over, even at the same position we were drafting from. This is were I have a problem with Modrak since his job was to grade them.
Rob's House Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I think Roscoe eclipsing his career highs in yds and tds in only 8 games (2 of which had TE starting)as a WR3 is pretty good evidence that DJ didn't know what he had or how to use him.
Swift Sylvan Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Ranked in order: 1) Levitre '09 G - B+ good player that will get better. 2) Byrd '09 S - C+ great rookie season, last season was dissappointing, seemed to play very deep and was not a factor. Jury still out. 3) Posluszny - '07 LB - C+, OK MLB, injury riddled. 4) Parrish - '05 WR/PR - C+ good punt returner, decent receiver, potential to be better if they use him like they did last year. 5) Kelsey - '03 DE - C OK defensive end, average player when not at LB. 6) J. Reed - '02 WR - C OK third receiver, good blocker but had trouble with drops for awhile, expected more production. 7) Denney - '02 DE - C serviceable backup and rotation player. 8) Hardy - '08 WR - F we were looking for a big receiver and we found a a bad football player instead. Average score = C- , only 4 legitimate starters (Levitre, Byrd, Poz, and maybe Kelsey). Overall - many below average players as a whole from the #2 spot when i would hope for an average score of B; fewer busts than the #1 picks. Another reason this team has been losing. rouns 1, 2 and 3 have been mostly horrible for along time. As noted, lots of better players passed over, even at the same position we were drafting from. This is were I have a problem with Modrak since his job was to grade them. Maybe I am too lenient: 1) Levitre B+: So far he seems like a solid starter in the NFL and has been a reliable, durable source for the Bills 2) Kelsay B: Kelsay has played for the Bills as a starter for 8 years. While he might not have been dominant like Schobel he is solid as a DE and has done what has been asked of him 3) Byrd B: Some injuries, but other than that a starter who has been playing relatively well, especially as a rookie 4) Pos B: Seems to always get injured. If he was more durable he would be an A. He has been a solid starter who contributes. 5) Reed B: Josh Reed usually gave the team 400 yards a year and a couple receptions a game. He wasn't a stud, but he was good enough to help our team every year for 8 years. 6) Parrish B-: Roscoe hurts only because we drafted him the same year the team tanked and went from almost playoffs to almost first round. That being said he has beena useful player every year and has contributed. 7) Denney B-: The stormin mormon was quality depth on special teams and as a DE. He played on the Bills for years. 8) Hardy F: He was a bust Frankly, to have a player play for you for 6+ years and to be at least solid should be a B- or better in my book. I feel like you all are looking at homerun picks and comparing these guys to them. This is my criteria: A: Probowl player B: Contributor C: Played for a few years and bottomed out D: Had potential, but something happened F: Never accomplished anything Chad Jackson for the Patriots was a D, Ko Simpson for the Bills was a C, our second round picks played for us for years and these guys weren't the reason we were so inept. They are all solid players who aren't good enough to dominate, but with other great players will look better by comparisson. Just like how players like Leonhard suddenly looks good on a team with playmakers. All of these guys are/were the same way except for Hardy.
Thoner7 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 How about a list of "guys that are not easily replacable" that we drafted when he was chief of scouting? 1. Kyle Williams. The end. Any way you cut it, Modrak sucked.
Bob in STL Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Maybe I am too lenient: 1) Levitre B+: So far he seems like a solid starter in the NFL and has been a reliable, durable source for the Bills 2) Kelsay B: Kelsay has played for the Bills as a starter for 8 years. While he might not have been dominant like Schobel he is solid as a DE and has done what has been asked of him 3) Byrd B: Some injuries, but other than that a starter who has been playing relatively well, especially as a rookie 4) Pos B: Seems to always get injured. If he was more durable he would be an A. He has been a solid starter who contributes. 5) Reed B: Josh Reed usually gave the team 400 yards a year and a couple receptions a game. He wasn't a stud, but he was good enough to help our team every year for 8 years. 6) Parrish B-: Roscoe hurts only because we drafted him the same year the team tanked and went from almost playoffs to almost first round. That being said he has beena useful player every year and has contributed. 7) Denney B-: The stormin mormon was quality depth on special teams and as a DE. He played on the Bills for years. 8) Hardy F: He was a bust Frankly, to have a player play for you for 6+ years and to be at least solid should be a B- or better in my book. I feel like you all are looking at homerun picks and comparing these guys to them. This is my criteria: A: Probowl player B: Contributor C: Played for a few years and bottomed out D: Had potential, but something happened F: Never accomplished anything Chad Jackson for the Patriots was a D, Ko Simpson for the Bills was a C, our second round picks played for us for years and these guys weren't the reason we were so inept. They are all solid players who aren't good enough to dominate, but with other great players will look better by comparisson. Just like how players like Leonhard suddenly looks good on a team with playmakers. All of these guys are/were the same way except for Hardy. Yuo are too lenient. Try this: A: Probowl player B: Contributor Solid Starter C: Contributor D: Played for a few years and bottomed out D: Had potential, but something happened F: Never accomplished anything
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