Would You Take 8-8 or 3-13 and the #1 Pick in '12?

[The Senator]

I was going to mention that but I figured why bother? We'll just have to tank next season if he doesn't declare. Then if he decides he'd rather go into the field he got his degrees in and never touch a football again, we can keep tanking until there's another can't miss QB.

Indeed - and I hear that there's a kid that, unless he declares early, should be available in the 2016 draft - if only we can keep on losing...

 

Link - The Second Coming

[thewildrabbit]

Wins or losses... the thinking that If your hoping that your team loses so they can draft a better player is lame....because In all probability they will make the wrong choice when its time to draft.

 

History has shown that if you have a bad team it is probably because you have bad leaders, HC-GM-president and history has shown that these bad leaders make bad choices.

 

The Colts had Bill Polian making the choice on Payton Manning-The Cowboys had Jimmy Johnson making the choice on Troy Aikman. Kind of funny that New Orleans didn't need to lose to grab Drew Brees as a free agent, the Patriots didn't need to lose to find Tom Brady as QB.Joe Montana was drafted and developed by Bill Walsh, he also traded for Steve Young and developed him into a winner from a loser.

 

 

NFN, but this HC thought Trent Edwards could get it done, that's why he spent an entire off-season working with him. We all should know in another year or so if this team found a HC-GM that can take this team to the playoffs or hired another set of losers.

[tennesseeboy]

You're blurring the difference between participants and fans. Participants are expected to play to win. The fans have the right to root for whatever they feel will benefit the team in the long run without the constraints the players and coaches have and without short sighted fans calling them losers.

If Mrs Graham Harrell wants to call me a loser, so be it.

"So, you must think Marv was a loser, since he, unlike you, could distinguish the difference between a meaningless win and the bigger picture."

 

 

 

Marv wasn't a spectator. As long as the participants, staff and scouts are committed to winning, it doesn't matter much waht we spectators think. Until of course the day when we are so disgusted we stop buying tickets.

[Albany,n.y.]

Losing so you can get a better player next year is what is truly short sighted. Winning is not about having the best QB next year. If you want to win you do it by building a consensus winning attitude from all players on the team. Even the ones that are not superstars can perform better with hard work and the mental determination to achieve a higher goal. This losing in hopes of maybe getting your guy in next year's draft is wrong and short sighted. What message are you sending to your existing team members if it is OK to lose now. Wrong message. No matter how you try to spin it. It's not right and it's a low character, underhanded, fowl way to run a team. Build your team the right way by playing to win every Sunday. Every single team in the NFL starts out the season with zero wins. Every single team has a chance to make the playoffs and go to the Superbowl. If you don't believe that, I'm sorry. You're a loser.

I'm not sending any message. I'm not on the team. As far as I know, neither are you. If you think you are or you think that what you want the team to do has anything to do with what happens on the field, you're being delusional.

 

You seem to have missed the point of my string of replies. I started with a reply to the poster who said it's better to win 4 games than 3 even if it costs you a shot at a once in a generation QB. I wasn't talking about the team, I was referring to my preference that if you're bad enough to have 3 wins in December, I, as a fan am going to root for the team to lose. It's has nothing to do with what Nix, Gailey, or the players are doing-It's my preference as a fan who is sick & tired of losing football to prefer 3 wins over 4 in a bad season-IF the season has regressed to that level.

 

As a ticket buying fan, I have the choice to determine how I want to root when I'm in the stadium. If the team has 3 wins and a totally meaningless 4th win costs the team its maximum chance at improvement, I've made my choice of maximum improvement. It still has ZERO effect on what the team does on the field. I realize that & every other fan should be able to realize the difference between what they root for & what the team is doing. It's the same way with those who go crazy when the Bills draft a different guy than who they want. You can root for a result in the draft or on the field, but your desire has no effect on the outcome of who they draft, sign as a free agent or perform on the field.

 

PS: When a team has 3 wins in December, they do not have a chance at the playoffs & are not going to the Super Bowl.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Albany,n.y.

[Rockinon]

I'm not sending any message. I'm not on the team. As far as I know, neither are you. If you think you are or you think that what you want the team to do has anything to do with what happens on the field, you're being delusional.

 

You seem to have missed the point of my string of replies. I started with a reply to the poster who said it's better to win 4 games than 3 even if it costs you a shot at a once in a generation QB. I wasn't talking about the team, I was referring to my preference that if you're bad enough to have 3 wins in December, I, as a fan am going to root for the team to lose. It's has nothing to do with what Nix, Gailey, or the players are doing-It's my preference as a fan who is sick & tired of losing football to prefer 3 wins over 4 in a bad season-IF the season has regressed to that level.

 

As a ticket buying fan, I have the choice to determine how I want to root when I'm in the stadium. If the team has 3 wins and a totally meaningless 4th win costs the team its maximum chance at improvement, I've made my choice of maximum improvement. It still has ZERO effect on what the team does on the field. I realize that & every other fan should be able to realize the difference between what they root for & what the team is doing. It's the same way with those who go crazy when the Bills draft a different guy than who they want. You can root for a result in the draft or on the field, but your desire has no effect on the outcome of who they draft, sign as a free agent or perform on the field.

As a ticket buying fan then, go ahead and spend your money on a team you are hoping will lose. Knock yourself out, loser.

[shoretalk]

The losers supporting losers thread. How quaint.

It is truly remarkable just how many board members are salivating at the thought of a totally complete collapse of the Bills so that we lose them all.

 

I would think that true fans can't wait to see how we progress from last year ... Fitz having an entire season plus offseason as #1 (our receivers are out in AZ working out with him), our O-Line maturing, a plan for Spiller, a quality group of wide-outs, and now a new defense with a defensive minded coach matching Gailey's offensive abilities.

 

Some people just like the label LOSER ... and are probably anxiously awaiting the start of their 4pm GR show.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

As a ticket buying fan then, go ahead and spend your money on a team you are hoping will lose. Knock yourself out, loser.

Seriously. I get so amped up every single Sunday I'm lucky enough to watch the Bills play. I don't care if they're 2-13 headed into week 17...I'm gonna have butterflies in my stomach on gameday hoping the Bills make me proud. I just cannot imagine watching the games any other way.

 

To those who disagree I have to ask, in that 2-13 scenario...would you sit there and watch the game and literally cheer if Fitz threw an INT first play of the game?

 

It's just not in my fan DNA to root against my own team.

[dpberr]

Anybody who has read "The Penalty of Leadership" would never clamor for a losing season. I had to memorize it in 8th grade, and recite it, but the lesson lasts a lifetime.

 

I see a losing season, any losing season, as the hammer of mediocrity patiently chipping away at the granite of a proud franchise.

 

http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/?tag=saturday-evening-post

[Albany,n.y.]

Seriously. I get so amped up every single Sunday I'm lucky enough to watch the Bills play. I don't care if they're 2-13 headed into week 17...I'm gonna have butterflies in my stomach on gameday hoping the Bills make me proud. I just cannot imagine watching the games any other way.

 

To those who disagree I have to ask, in that 2-13 scenario...would you sit there and watch the game and literally cheer if Fitz threw an INT first play of the game?

 

It's just not in my fan DNA to root against my own team.

If the team is 2-13, Fitz isn't going to be back in 2012. I'd want the best available replacement. Since the game is in NE, I'll be watching it at some bar, not from the stands. I won't cheer but I won't be upset. Can you imagine how much happier Belichick, assuming his playoff position is clinched, would be if it came down to the 2-13 scenario & he "rested" all his players to keep Luck out of his division? Maybe you need to think of that before rooting for a win in the last game of the season when a win does nothing except keep a franchise QB off the team?

Once again, it is only this scenario this late in the season, if the season, Fitzpatrick, and the team have been horrible all year. Why win one then? Winning against the Patriots C team will not help the team in any way if they go in with 2 or 3 wins. The only way the game means anything is if the Bills have a shot at the playoffs.

[Bangarang]

If the team is 2-13, Fitz isn't going to be back in 2012. I'd want the best available replacement. Since the game is in NE, I'll be watching it at some bar, not from the stands. I won't cheer but I won't be upset. Can you imagine how much happier Belichick, assuming his playoff position is clinched, would be if it came down to the 2-13 scenario & he "rested" all his players to keep Luck out of his division? Maybe you need to think of that before rooting for a win in the last game of the season when a win does nothing except keep a franchise QB off the team?

Once again, it is only this scenario this late in the season, if the season, Fitzpatrick, and the team have been horrible all year. Why win one then? Winning against the Patriots C team will not help the team in any way if they go in with 2 or 3 wins. The only way the game means anything is if the Bills have a shot at the playoffs.

 

Too bad that logic is absolutely terrible. People wanted us to only win 1 game last season to guarantee the #1 overall pick so we could get Luck. Turns out Luck decided to stay in school, which he could very well do again next year. Then what? If we only won 1 game last season like some people wanted, we could be sitting here talking about drafting Cam Newton #1 overall and watching Dareus go somewhere else. The point of all this? Play the game to win and worry about kids who may or may not declare for the draft later.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Bangarang

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Can you imagine how much happier Belichick, assuming his playoff position is clinched, would be if it came down to the 2-13 scenario & he "rested" all his players to keep Luck out of his division?

Sure I can. He wouldn't give a crap and the thought would never cross his mind

 

There isn't a big difference between picking first and picking elsewhere in the top 5. We just drafted 3rd and got by most accounts the top prospect in the draft.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Big Bad Boone

[Rockinon]

Anybody who has read "The Penalty of Leadership" would never clamor for a losing season. I had to memorize it in 8th grade, and recite it, but the lesson lasts a lifetime.

 

I see a losing season, any losing season, as the hammer of mediocrity patiently chipping away at the granite of a proud franchise.

 

http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/?tag=saturday-evening-post

Interesting read about leadership and striving to be great. We've all ready been down the mediocrity road, though. Good thing a hammer can also be used to build.

[Albany,n.y.]

Sure I can. He wouldn't give a crap and the thought would never cross his mind

 

There isn't a big difference between picking first and picking elsewhere in the top 5. We just drafted 3rd and got by most accounts the top prospect in the draft.

It depends on who the top prospect is in the draft. While your statement is valid most of the time, and it's been a while since a team had to have #1, here are some years this wasn't true. In all probability, you can add whatever year Luck comes out to this list:

 

1999 Peyton Manning

1989 Troy Aikman

1985 Bruce Smith

1983 John Elway

1970 Terry Bradshaw

1969 O.J. Simpson

 

What this shows is most of the time, it doesn't matter if you're the worst team in football or just nearly the worst. But every so often it does matter. All 4 of those QBs led their team to Super Bowl victories and with the exception of Manning, multiple victories.

[BuffOrange]

Andrew Luck and it's not close. Ask Colt fans if the pain of 1997 is still hurting them. If you've fallen in love, or heard people fall in love with flavor of the month QB's in previous years who had big ?'s and are scared because of it, that's a you problem. Doesn't mean this guy isn't the real deal.

[Bangarang]

Andrew Luck and it's not close. Ask Colt fans if the pain of 1997 is still hurting them. If you've fallen in love, or heard people fall in love with flavor of the month QB's in previous years who had big ?'s and are scared because of it, that's a you problem. Doesn't mean this guy isn't the real deal.

 

And if Luck doesn't declare next year? Do we tank another season?

[purple haze]

Despite getting good reviews on their draft, I have heard or read at least a couple of places (SI, Kiper) that expect the Bills to have the #1 pick next year. So, as a Bills fan, what would you rather see happen in 2011:

 

A. The Bills show good progress and finish 8-8 or a Jauron-esque 7-9, showing solid progress on both sides of the ball.

 

B. They go 3-13 and end up with the #1 pick in the draft.

 

There are a couple of other interesting scenarios that could develop. A year ago, Jake Locker seemed like a lock for the #1 overall pick (and Ryan Mallett was talked about being right there with him). So now Andrew Luck loses his head coach, what if he has a down year and talk about him being a "system QB" surfaces?

 

The other thing is that people are already talking about Luck, Matt Barkley and Landry Jones as top 10 picks. Does that bode well for the Bills?

 

I know there's free agency and a small detail called a labor agreement to get ironed out but what should we be hoping for?

 

8-8 without a second thought. Time to win more than they lose. Period. Losing is no remedy for a true competitor.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Andrew Luck and it's not close. Ask Colt fans if the pain of 1997 is still hurting them. If you've fallen in love, or heard people fall in love with flavor of the month QB's in previous years who had big ?'s and are scared because of it, that's a you problem. Doesn't mean this guy isn't the real deal.

He also might suck on Ryan Leaf proportions. None of us know. Definitely not worth it

[Hplarrm]

How this horrible result happens would have such much larger ramifications for the Bills future that getting the #1 pick and who to choose would be among our lesser issues,

 

If this Nix/Gailey led team such a huge step backwards with a team which after 2 drafts was more their team than the one the inherited I really think their jobs would be in danger. The question of who the new HC/GM would be and their philosophic direction would be the big question rather than who the QB would be.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

How this horrible result happens would have such much larger ramifications for the Bills future that getting the #1 pick and who to choose would be among our lesser issues,

 

If this Nix/Gailey led team such a huge step backwards with a team which after 2 drafts was more their team than the one the inherited I really think their jobs would be in danger. The question of who the new HC/GM would be and their philosophic direction would be the big question rather than who the QB would be.

To add to what Hp said,

 

I think it would be a VERY inopportune time for the Bills to have a disaster season… in the 2nd year of a new regime... with the lease running out on the stadium... and with Mr. Wilson's health seeming so precarious.

 

It's not a stretch to say that if you're rooting for the Bills to lose in 2011, you're rooting for Buffalo to lose the Bills.