Captain Hindsight Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I dont follow what this post means. Please clarify. I study environmental sciences at UB so I am aware of what it takes to build an Ipad, the real cost of one in terms of the metals and mining it takes to build one. I have a few other views on this matter that are really more for the political board so I'll leave them out here. (PM me if you want) So as cool as there are I have made a choice not to buy one (or a lot of other technology for that matter) and now that I know the labor situation behind it, I have one more reason not to buy one.
Captain Caveman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 17 suicides/5 years = 3.4 each year 3.4 suicides each year/1,000,000 people = 0.0000034% of the population killing themselves each year. In 2006 in the US there were 33,300 suicides. 33,300/~300,000,000= 0.00011% of the population. When youre dealing with 1million people, or millions of people, this stuff is going to happen. So you're saying they shouldn't treat them with humanity. Gotcha. My post was just pointing out that it seems silly to me that they've brought in monks for an exorcism, but not thought about cutting back on mandatory overtime, or allowing the workers to chat now and then.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I study environmental sciences at UB so I am aware of what it takes to build an Ipad, the real cost of one in terms of the metals and mining it takes to build one. I have a few other views on this matter that are really more for the political board so I'll leave them out here. (PM me if you want) So as cool as there are I have made a choice not to buy one (or a lot of other technology for that matter) and now that I know the labor situation behind it, I have one more reason not to buy one. Ah, gotcha. I thought when you said "I dont buy it" you meant it as you werent believing something I had posted. Looking back, now I get it So you're saying they shouldn't treat them with humanity. Gotcha. My post was just pointing out that it seems silly to me that they've brought in monks for an exorcism, but not thought about cutting back on mandatory overtime, or allowing the workers to chat now and then. Ha, never said that. Of course I do. But that doesnt mean people wont kill themselves. It very well may decrease the rate, but it wont ever stop completely.
Captain Hindsight Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Ah, gotcha. I thought when you said "I dont buy it" you meant it as you werent believing something I had posted. Looking back, now I get it O no I wasn't arguing your point I actually agree entirely. Glad I could clear that up for you
dayman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) 17 suicides/5 years = 3.4 each year 3.4 suicides each year/1,000,000 people = 0.0000034% of the population killing themselves each year. In 2006 in the US there were 33,300 suicides. 33,300/~300,000,000= 0.00011% of the population. When youre dealing with 1million people, or millions of people, this stuff is going to happen. For US, me and you, not the company. Dont get it confused. The reason they are worked so hard, and paid so little, and treated so poorly, is so AMERICAN CONSUMERS can get technology at "reasonable prices". You want them to work less? Be treated better? Then you better be willing to pay double for everything. The reason they are worked so hard and paid so little is because their government doesn't provide legislative safeguards empowering people to bargain over working conditions and mandating a certain level of workers rights...and the reason the government doesn't do so is b/c these people are poor and unskilled laborers anyway and they really have no value other than being used like this at this point...make no mistake the Chinese are leveraging their own. I'm not defending anything btw before you flip out...it would be fantastic if American companies kept it at home and had more of a sense of patriotism (and yes I guess corporate humanism if you want to go there). But it's ridiculous to just sit there and act like this is all the big fat American public abusing the poor little Chinese so they can thumb through facebook. The Chinese as a whole love that they attract foreign manufacturing business. They would do anything (including just putting up nets as opposed to change the conditions) to keep it...they'll take suicides before they are forced to compete on a level playing field...b/c then they can't compete. Edited May 5, 2011 by dayman
DC Tom Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Ill fully admit its not a perfect comparison. It's not any sort of comparison. You're comparing the total suicide rate of the US across the US population to the total suicide rate in a single Chinese factory ACROSS THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF CHINA. That's like comparing the relative sizes of two cars by weighing one car, then weighing the steering wheel off the other. Sadly, Simon flatly forbids me calling you a moron here. Please head over to PPP, so I can make such observations about you as you so richly deserve.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 The reason they are worked so hard and paid so little is because their government doesn't provide legislative safeguards empowering people to bargain over working conditions and mandating a certain level of workers rights...and the reason the government doesn't do so is b/c these people are poor and unskilled laborers anyway and they really have no value other than being used like this at this point...make no mistake the Chinese are leveraging their own. I'm not defending anything btw before you flip out...it would be fantastic if American companies kept it at home and had more of a sense of patriotism (and yes I guess corporate humanism if you want to go there). But it's ridiculous to just sit there and act like this is all the big fat American public abusing the poor little Chinese so they can thumb through facebook. The Chinese as a whole love that they attract foreign manufacturing business. They would do anything (including just putting up nets as opposed to change the conditions) to keep it...they'll take suicides before they are forced to compete on a level playing field...b/c then they can't compete. I never once meant to imply, nor did I ever state, that it was the "only" reason. I was merely responding to the comment about it being cheaper for the company to put up nets. The Chinese govt is definitely at fault for pimping out their own people as well. It's not any sort of comparison. You're comparing the total suicide rate of the US across the US population to the total suicide rate in a single Chinese factory ACROSS THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF CHINA. That's like comparing the relative sizes of two cars by weighing one car, then weighing the steering wheel off the other. Sadly, Simon flatly forbids me calling you a moron here. Please head over to PPP, so I can make such observations about you as you so richly deserve. Point taken
BuffaloBill Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 This situation is not much different than the exploitation of labor that has occurred in other societies. Not saying it is right, I'm only saying this is not a new situation. As long as there is a huge population in China living in deep poverty there will continue to be stories like this. It is a very sad situation.
Rob's House Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 What's with the suicide nets? This is wrong on so many levels. People are so deprived that they want to kill themselves and you're going to deprive them of even that? And how serious were you really when you got to the top, saw a net, and decided "Well ****, I guess I'll live." !@#$ing quitters.
KD in CA Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) What's with the suicide nets? This is wrong on so many levels. People are so deprived that they want to kill themselves and you're going to deprive them of even that? And how serious were you really when you got to the top, saw a net, and decided "Well ****, I guess I'll live." !@#$ing quitters. They did something similar at NYU....too many students were jumping off the library roof during finals week. Edited May 6, 2011 by KD in CT
dayman Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 What's with the suicide nets? This is wrong on so many levels. People are so deprived that they want to kill themselves and you're going to deprive them of even that? And how serious were you really when you got to the top, saw a net, and decided "Well ****, I guess I'll live." !@#$ing quitters. I'd probably jump off the top if there was a net down there it sounds like it could be fun.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 I'd probably jump off the top if there was a net down there it sounds like it could be fun. I got $5 on your plane ticket to China. Come on Two Bills Drive, let's send dayman to China to fulfill his dream of jumping off a roof...
Booster4324 Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) I got $5 on your plane ticket to China. Come on Two Bills Drive, let's send dayman to China to fulfill his dream of jumping off a roof... If we sell him to the factory, that should cover the cost of the ticket. We might even turn a profit... Finally a full plan: Step 1 - Find sucker/captive Step 2 - Sell said sucker/captive to someone that can use them Step 3 - Profit Why has no one thought of this before? Edited May 7, 2011 by Booster4324
DC Tom Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 I study environmental sciences at UB so I am aware of what it takes to build an Ipad, the real cost of one in terms of the metals and mining it takes to build one. I have a few other views on this matter that are really more for the political board so I'll leave them out here. (PM me if you want) So as cool as there are I have made a choice not to buy one (or a lot of other technology for that matter) and now that I know the labor situation behind it, I have one more reason not to buy one. You probably have my brother as a professor, or are in a class with my sister-in-law.
Just Jack Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 What's with the suicide nets? Nets are probably cheaper than training new workers.
Captain Hindsight Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 You probably have my brother as a professor, or are in a class with my sister-in-law. Perhaps? That would be an odd coincidence. PM me their names maybe i know them
KD in CA Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 Nets are probably cheaper than training new workers. I laughed at the absurdity, but that's probably right.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 You're making the mistake of comparing every suicide in the US with just the suicides that occur at the plant over there. How many people kill themselves at work in the US? How many people kill themselves after working at the factory in China? I'm guessing the former is much lower and the latter is much higher. Why bother Fez? It is how people justify stuff like this... Which BTW is sad, IMO... Anything to get one through the day and collect their check stateside! Nets are probably cheaper than training new workers. Kinda like the Ford Pinto... Easier to handle the lawsuits than re-engineer the cheasy defective part! ??
Recommended Posts