bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I'm no Tom Modrak, but I believe Ponder will be the best QB in this years draft class and I would have been thrilled if the Bills had been able to trade back into the first to grab him. Glad your not Tom he just got his can tossed to the door
FLFan Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I expected the Bills to try and make a move for Ponder if he lasted to the bottom third of the first round. Someone was clearly going to do it and it was not exactly secret that Gailey liked him. We will see, but I think MN made a good move in grabbing him.
dollars 2 donuts Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 His career will be interesting to follow. Some day maybe Minnesota can shove it in everyone's face if he turns out to be a really good pro. Isn't it only the first 11 teams they can shove it in the face of?
zow2 Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Isn't it only the first 11 teams they can shove it in the face of? Eh, you still have people all over the place (including this board) who say he should not have been taken till round 2 or later...
DDD Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 no way. may drafted him in the 2nd, but thats it Why? If they felt he could be a franchise QB then you draft him in the 1st round.
Mr. WEO Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) There were only 2 that I can remember. One failed miserably. The other was pretty good(and I'm not sure if this was a draft day trade or not, too young to remember). You mean Kelly? He wasn't a reach. Edited May 4, 2011 by Mr. WEO
The Wiz Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 that pick we used for kelly was acquired in 1982 for Tom Cousineau. So, it wasn't a draft day trade As I said, wasn't sure when that trade was made and couldn't find a whole lot with a quick google search other than the trade happened. You mean Kelly? He wasn't a reach. Was referring to trading back into the first round for a QB not the reach part but justnraze proved that they didn't trade back into the first so on either account it was only JP that was the trade back in reach.
Alphadawg7 Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Jim Miller, former NFL quarterback told USA Today writer Jim Corbett that the Bills would have traded back into the first round if Christian Ponder had not been selected at #12 by the Minnesota Vikings. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2011-05-03-jake-locker-sw_N.htm?csp=34sports&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomNfl-TopStories+%28Sports+-+NFL+-+Top+Stor If true, this confirms the widely-held belief that the Bills only considered two QBs from this draft class…Cam Newton and Christian Ponder…to be "franchise quarterbacks." I actually got the impression the Bills would seriously consider trading back up to get him, even at one of NE's picks as we went into the draft.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) Jim Miller, former NFL quarterback told USA Today writer Jim Corbett that the Bills would have traded back into the first round if Christian Ponder had not been selected at #12 by the Minnesota Vikings. http://www.usatoday....+NFL+-+Top+Stor If true, this confirms the widely-held belief that the Bills only considered two QBs from this draft class…Cam Newton and Christian Ponder…to be "franchise quarterbacks." Nix was known to like Gabbert a lot, and strongly considered him for the third overall pick. There is a very good chance that if Dareus was gone, as well as Newton, that Nix and Gailey would have taken Gabbert over Von Miller. I think it's safe to say that they liked Newton, Gabbert and Ponder, in that order. Also, it's just flat impossible to say with any certainty that the Bills would have traded up for sure in the first round. Once players come off the board at 15 or so, and the Bills were looking to perhaps trade up, they would need a partner, and they would have to offer a package of picks and/or players that was accepted, etc. It's irresponsible reporting and not to be trusted that Jim Miller says the Bills were going to trade up to get Ponder. I'm sure they liked him, and maybe wanted him, and thought he was a first round talent to groom behind Fitz. But that doesn't at all mean they would have automatically traded for him. Edited May 4, 2011 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog
Hplarrm Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I'd bet Bills would've traded back into the first round if Blaine Gabbert was still available in the 20s. jw I am glad they did not even if they had wanted to as I see no examples of the Gailey system having worked with a rookie QB (even if there was one with even a reasonable expectation of him being a franchise QB- which there is not in this draft once Luck took a pass). I have consistently asked and have not had an answer of anyone pointing to a Gailey QB who did not have at least some vet experience. Gailey;s actual record of past productivity is actually quite impressive in that he runs a system which has allowed QBs with past disappointing or even failed records like Fiedler, Kordell. Bulger and even Fitzy to an extent as he showed some stuff in his previous PT but what he showed was not enough to get his previous teams to spend to keep him. I can see why they might have been interested in Newton, as he among his 2011 QB peers had an unparalleled record of production. However, even he appears to be a multi-year project at QB (though actually he could well be immediately productive as the pseudo-QB in Wildcat change-up formations. Gabbert also showed potential, but the simple fact is he is a relative latecome to QB stardom only having had two years of starting at QB. His results were impressive, but in addition to being a relatively short period of time it clearly was against second tier opponents. He ran the college spread offense well but it is gonna be a very different ballgame for him as a pro. Figure on at least two years of sitting on the bench and then mostly seeing PT in practice before he could be reasonably expected to contribute to the Bills. The problem is that with our 9 for a decade plus record it is really doubtful that the FO and the new QB could withstand the whining which would be the staple of folks at WGR, writers like Sully and a small but vocal set of fans who will label any first rounder who does not take starting role in his first year a bust. It strikes me as the Bills have a far better chance of winning if they build in the trenches first with folks like Dareus rather than invest in a QB who if the Bills follow the same route they did with failures of folks like RJ, JP, Edwards and even going back to TC who was rushed into a starting role before they were ready, drafting any QB before round 4 would likely have resulted in a wasted pick from all I see. How long do you think it would have taken for Gabbert to become productive? I doubt a Bills 1st round chosen rookie even gets a full season of learning before he is thrown to the wolves. Gabbert simply has not been on top long enough that anyone can reasonably expect him to be productive in his first two years. The cries would already be labeling him as another QB bust unless he lucked into productivity his first year.
Green Lightning Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I'd bet Bills would've traded back into the first round if Blaine Gabbert was still available in the 20s. jw Really? He kind of reminded me of a Trent Edwards with better legs. Gave me check-down flashbacks. I know they did like Ponder. Read your Dareus piece but haven't heard your take on teh draft. Did I miss it?
John from Riverside Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I would have had no problem with them trading back into the 1st round for ponder... BUT Sometimes its the trade that you DONT make that helps your team......I get the sense that this corner Aaron Williams is a REAL player and to trade back into the 1st would mean you give up AT LEAST your 2nd rounder (and maybe more) There are guys we got this year I think in the end are going to be real players for this team......Williams, Hairston, Searcey....ILB's... I like our draft.....
thewildrabbit Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) Nix was known to like Gabbert a lot, and strongly considered him for the third overall pick. There is a very good chance that if Dareus was gone, as well as Newton, that Nix and Gailey would have taken Gabbert over Von Miller. I think it's safe to say that they liked Newton, Gabbert and Ponder, in that order. Also, it's just flat impossible to say with any certainty that the Bills would have traded up for sure in the first round. Once players come off the board at 15 or so, and the Bills were looking to perhaps trade up, they would need a partner, and they would have to offer a package of picks and/or players that was accepted, etc. It's irresponsible reporting and not to be trusted that Jim Miller says the Bills were going to trade up to get Ponder. I'm sure they liked him, and maybe wanted him, and thought he was a first round talent to groom behind Fitz. But that doesn't at all mean they would have automatically traded for him. Huge difference between Ponder and Newton, it still bugs me that the Bills had Can Newton up there with Darius....but then again perhaps that was all that was needed to provoke the Panthers to pick Newton. Some strong hunch I have tells me people will start calling that #1 overall pick "Cash" Newton after this next season I looked at Ponder as one of the top 2 QB's in this draft, the other was Jake Locker as this kid is burning to be great Edited May 4, 2011 by Harvey lives
Mr. WEO Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 As I said, wasn't sure when that trade was made and couldn't find a whole lot with a quick google search other than the trade happened. Was referring to trading back into the first round for a QB not the reach part but justnraze proved that they didn't trade back into the first so on either account it was only JP that was the trade back in reach. Well, yeah. That's what I said.
turftoe Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I expected the Bills to try and make a move for Ponder if he lasted to the bottom third of the first round. Someone was clearly going to do it and it was not exactly secret that Gailey liked him. We will see, but I think MN made a good move in grabbing him. I wonder if Modrak spilled the beans to Andre who then tweeted it to the world? Would be interested to know how Andre got his inside info.
Direhard Fan Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Nix is the new sheriff in town and stuck to his guns. He liked Fitz and knew we could be respectable next year with him. "D" was the goal and no one was talking him out of it. Modack is no loss. Than with our 2nd 7th round Nix picked Casper the Ghost just for fun to let us know he still has a sence of humor. With our team you need one.
H2o Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I'm glad we didn't honestly. Who knows what we would've given up to get back into the 1st. I like the players we got from this draft and the fact that we still have all of our picks in next year's draft as well.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 4, 2011 Author Posted May 4, 2011 I wonder if Modrak spilled the beans to Andre who then tweeted it to the world? Would be interested to know how Andre got his inside info. That's a VERY interesting theory…but after the last two days, I'm gonna stay away from conspiracy theories.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Nix is the new sheriff in town and stuck to his guns. He liked Fitz and knew we could be respectable next year with him. "D" was the goal and no one was talking him out of it. Modack is no loss. Than with our 2nd 7th round Nix picked Casper the Ghost just for fun to let us know he still has a sence of humor. With our team you need one. A good D alone will make the Bills wild card contenders. PTR
Orton's Arm Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Yikes--trading back into the first to reach for a QB? That always works out well for us. The two situations are not parallel. Losman was selected largely because of his physical gifts: his arm strength and mobility. He'd proven relatively little as a college-level pocket passer. In contrast, Ponder is an accurate passer, reads the field quickly, is smart, and a hard worker. (As he's shown by having already earned a master's degree, and beginning work on another.) Back in 2004, Dave Wannestadt said he wouldn't take Losman with the last pick of the seventh round. In contrast, I've seen NFL personnel people whose opinions I respect speak very highly of Ponder. I was very unhappy with the Vikings for taking Ponder 12th overall. But considering their need for a quarterback, as well as what Ponder has to offer, I can see why they did. While reaching in general isn't generally a great idea, you're much better off reaching for a quarterback at 12th overall than, say, for a SS at 8th overall! If you get the QB pick right, the potential rewards are significantly higher. This is especially true for a team like the Vikings, because they seem to have just about all the other pieces in place.
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