Orton's Arm Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Here's how the fans voted So the fans view him as the 11th best safety. That seems a little more accurate than the ESPN analyst view.
qdawg in philly Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Let me just say this fellas as another poster did. HE'S NOT GOOD! He's average at best. What needs to be understood is this is a new regime. They owe DW nothing. And if last year was his audition, then plain and simple, he's outta here. Its mentioned he did whatever the bills asked. Well who asked? Not this regime! The Bills feel they can do better, so they drafted someone and there's still the safeties we have. So we move on. No time for the BS. An offer was given and he didn't take it! So that's a rap. God bless DW. Wish you the best. Just won't happen in B-low.
purple haze Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Donte has been a lightning rod here because of where he was picked (he had no control over that) and because of some of the things that he has said/written/tweeted. I think that he was picked too high, but I also think that his tweets etc. show that he actually gives a damn. As far as whether he wants to play for the Bills, didn't he just tattoo the Bills logo on his arm or something like that. I think that Buddy's recent comments are more about the $$$. I think that Donte wants to be with the Bills. He is just asking for more money that the Bills are willing to pay and/or think that he is worth. I have no problem with the Bills re-signing him at the right amount. Our draft certainly gives us flexibility to do what we want. The fact is that Donte is not as bad as some make him out to be. He also is not Troy P. or Ed Reed. He probably is within the top third of strong safeties in the league. One of the things that we all have to keep in mind is that our linebackers and DBs all should benefit from our anticipated improved defensive line. A lot of the very good safeties and other DBs have the benefit of playing behind much better defensive lines than the Bills have had over the past few years. Just my two cents. I see your two cents and raise it two more cents. Dead on. Whitner and the Bills are having a business issue not a football one. If he comes at their price they want Whitner. That's obvious. You know, there's some truth to what you say and there are plenty of Donte haters due to his draft position and who he ain't. All that said, anyone who would pay top ten money for him is just nuts. He's a good football player but not elite. Sign him for $3 mil, but man, nowhere near $5 or $6 mil. That's just stupid. He already makes more than 3 million from his rookie contract. They would give him a raise on general principal. They just won't get crazy with how much of a raise. Nix saying he probably won't be back is not him saying that he has no intentions of retaining Whitner. It's more like Whitner doesn't want to resign for the money we offered and he's going elsewhere.
truth on hold Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Honestly after the first few guys does it really matter where someones ranked? Huge drop off
QCity Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 So the fans view him as the 11th best safety. That seems a little more accurate than the ESPN analyst view. Well, I'd like to point out there were only 11 safeties listed, so they rank him last. If more were added he could drop lower. Here's the link
8-8 Forever? Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I am sure someone will pay him. I do not think it will be us. Obviously these rankings mean only so much, but he is obviously viewed as a safety in the top half in the league. There are teams in much worse shape at the position and probably feel like he is on the upswing in his career, being only 26 years old. I could take him or leave him. NFL defenses are moreso made by the front 7 these days. If the front 7 cannot pressure the offense, the rules leave the DBs in a weak position defending the pass. Whitner doesn't make many plays either. Seems to have dropped many balls in his career, he just makes big hits, which doesn't get you much in the NFL. He is in a nice contract spot, just like Winfield and Clements before him. This will be his last big contract, so he wants to maximize it. The Bills have never paid up for the second contract for a DB. I would be OK with that if they paid up for a great front 7 player instead. They do neither and simply replace proven vets with rookies. Most teams do that for the most part, however, so it is hard to be too critical. Ralph refuses to get caught in salary cap jail for a DB and that on balance is probably smart.
Bill from NYC Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Immature or not, Whitner has never gotten a fair shake from the Buffalo fanbase. This is a fundamental disagreement which you and I have. I think that 1st round picks get more of a break both from fans and team management. Have you noticed that Maybin, and even McCargo still have jobs? A lot was invested in bringing them to the team. If they were undrafted free agents they would both almost surely be gone. How about Jim Leonard and Jabari Greer? They are certainly two of the best dbs that the Bills have had in the last 5 years and they are on other teams doing very well. Look at who we kept and look at who walked. Do you see my point at all? Jason Peters was a udfa. He was also our best blocker in quite some time. Yes, other factors were involved, but many people were glad to let him walk and turn over this important job to Bell, and we are still waiting for results. I sense that if Peters was a first round pick, there would have been more outrage. Maybe I'm wrong. Losman is yet another example who got far more fan support than was warranted by his play. As for Whitner, he isn't very good and gets absolutely smoked by tight ends. Flat out destroyed. If another team gives him more than he deserves to fill a spot or cover for injuries, good for him. But, he never lived up to either his draft slot or the money he seems to be seeking. No great loss. Jmo.
The Senator Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 So we should get a pretty good compensatory pick for "Lil' Donte" in 2012 then, yes?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) So we should get a pretty good compensatory pick for "Lil' Donte" in 2012 then, yes? Depending on the new CBA…what free agents we might sign, and whether he actually leaves (which I anticipate he will). Edited May 4, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan
Orton's Arm Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 This is a fundamental disagreement which you and I have. I think that 1st round picks get more of a break both from fans and team management. Have you noticed that Maybin, and even McCargo still have jobs? A lot was invested in bringing them to the team. If they were undrafted free agents they would both almost surely be gone. How about Jim Leonard and Jabari Greer? They are certainly two of the best dbs that the Bills have had in the last 5 years and they are on other teams doing very well. Look at who we kept and look at who walked. Do you see my point at all? Jason Peters was a udfa. He was also our best blocker in quite some time. Yes, other factors were involved, but many people were glad to let him walk and turn over this important job to Bell, and we are still waiting for results. I sense that if Peters was a first round pick, there would have been more outrage. Maybe I'm wrong. Losman is yet another example who got far more fan support than was warranted by his play. As for Whitner, he isn't very good and gets absolutely smoked by tight ends. Flat out destroyed. If another team gives him more than he deserves to fill a spot or cover for injuries, good for him. But, he never lived up to either his draft slot or the money he seems to be seeking. No great loss. Jmo. Good post, and you've raised two separate, interesting questions. 1) Do first round picks get more of a break from team management? 2) Do first round picks get more of a break from the fans? Maybe the first question isn't all that interesting. As you pointed out yourself, if players like Maybin, McCargo, etc. had been walk-on UDFAs, they would have been shown the door a long time ago. As for the Bills' decision to let Jabari Greer and Jim Leonard walk: we're talking about the same team which also allowed former first round picks like Nate Clements and Antoine Winfield to leave. Other than the one extra year we squeezed out of Clements via the franchise tag, both were cases of first-contract-and-out. The Bills' DBs with the best combination of youth + proven accomplishment have a very high proclivity for going first-contract-and-out, regardless of draft status. That's obviously something which has to change if this team is to become credible. I fully agree with your comment that Losman received more credit from a lot of fans than his play on the field warranted. I think that some of that was due to his draft status. Some of it was probably due to a human tendency to believe what one wants to believe. A third contributing factor was the tendency, at least among some fans, to over-value physical measurables such as arm strength and foot speed; with the thought that a quarterback's mental traits can be coached. The problem with that is that a quarterback like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning has a significantly higher mental ceiling than someone like Losman. When Whitner was taken, there were a number of fans who stated that a SS at 8th overall would make sense if he was the next Ronnie Lott, or even the next Ed Reed. Obviously, Whitner isn't that. But if, back in 2006, someone convinced himself that Whitner had serious potential to be good enough to justify the 8th overall pick, that initial, favorable view might influence how he sees subsequent events. For example, Whitner's struggles in pass coverage against TEs might be blamed on the lack of a pass rush; or dismissed with "very few SSs can cover the league's best TEs anyway." The emphasis will be on the things Whitner can do (such as hard hits, run support, and generally being near the play), rather the things he can't. But by the same token, the sense of disappointment that many fans (including me) felt when a treasure like the 8th overall pick was so obviously and wantonly squandered, means that there will be at least the temptation to allow that disappointment to influence our view of Whitner's play. Putting aside the question of Whitner completely, I personally would rather have a SS who was good at covering TEs and mediocre in run support than a SS who was the opposite. So I think that my appraisal of him is based on what he's actually done (or in this case, failed to do) on the field, and not as a negative reaction to the general incompetence and shortsightedness of the Marv/Jauron regime. But I can't be 100% sure of this. If Whitner had been drafted by, say, the Broncos, and was in the process of becoming a free agent available for the Bills to sign, how would I view his play? Would I be excited about the prospect of having him in a Bills uniform? I don't think I'd be all that excited, but I can't know for sure.
Bill from NYC Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 But by the same token, the sense of disappointment that many fans (including me) felt when a treasure like the 8th overall pick was so obviously and wantonly squandered, means that there will be at least the temptation to allow that disappointment to influence our view of Whitner's play. This was a lagre part of what I was trying to get across. Missing on an early first round pick is torture for fans. Doing it for a decade is that much harder to bear. Posters on this board (especially me) are a bit more fanatical than most, and probably much more than we should be. That said, why would a person want to admit how bad their team is? Or go into a draft assuming that the FO is going to screw it up? When a player such as Whitner isn't re-signed it is proof positive of a huge mistake, and in our case, one of many. It looks better with Nix/Gailey imo. Last season, I was fine with the picks after round 1. This year, I have no problems accept for round 2 (should have traded down imo) and I don't see why they didn't take McElroy in round 7. Still, there is no reason not to expect defensive improvement, perhaps even a solid defense after a few weeks into the season. They can really bolster the offense too if they sign free agents such as Boss and Trueblood. Let's hope!
Pete Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Here's how the fans voted Polamulu had 2244 votes Whitner had 10. My guess is Whitner voted for himself 8 times or so So we should get a pretty good compensatory pick for "Lil' Donte" in 2012 then, yes? a late 7th is my guess
QCity Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 So we should get a pretty good compensatory pick for "Lil' Donte" in 2012 then, yes? We should, the biggest factor in compensatory picks is salary (there are other factors like playing time and postseason success). Kampman and Vanden Bosch both signed deals worth about 6.5M a year, and their respective teams got a 4th round pick. Most likely he'll sign for around 5-6M a year, which should be enough to get us a 5th round pick.
Orton's Arm Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 This was a lagre part of what I was trying to get across. Missing on an early first round pick is torture for fans. Doing it for a decade is that much harder to bear. Posters on this board (especially me) are a bit more fanatical than most, and probably much more than we should be. That said, why would a person want to admit how bad their team is? Or go into a draft assuming that the FO is going to screw it up? When a player such as Whitner isn't re-signed it is proof positive of a huge mistake, and in our case, one of many. It looks better with Nix/Gailey imo. Last season, I was fine with the picks after round 1. This year, I have no problems accept for round 2 (should have traded down imo) and I don't see why they didn't take McElroy in round 7. Still, there is no reason not to expect defensive improvement, perhaps even a solid defense after a few weeks into the season. They can really bolster the offense too if they sign free agents such as Boss and Trueblood. Let's hope! I fully agree that the Bills' apparent lukewarm interest in Whitner is just one more indication that he was a poor use of our pick. I'd compare that to the Antoine Winfield situation. Winfield would easily have been worth the late-first round pick the Bills used to take him--at least if they'd kept him in Buffalo for the duration of his useful career. You judge the success of a first round pick by the extent to which the player becomes part of the core of your team. In this case, the failure to re-sign Winfield meant he became part of the Vikings' core. But just as it would have made sense for the Bills to keep players like Winfield and Jabari Greer for their useful careers, I'm not sure that it would make sense to hold onto Whitner. He seems to want a princely contract. I don't know that it would be in the Bills' interests to offer such a contract when they get roughly similar play at the SS position from George Wilson. I admit to having mixed feelings about the Bills' round 2 pick. If Aaron Williams becomes a starting CB, and plays at a Greer-like level, and remains in Buffalo for the duration of his career, I'll be happy with the pick. But if he becomes a safety, I'll be considerably less happy. Letting a DB like Whitner go first-contract-and-out, only to use a high draft pick to replace him, seems like a theme we've heard before. Even if Williams proves to be a moderate upgrade over Whitner, I'd care more about the loss of the second round pick than about the moderate upgrade! Plus there's the fact that if Aaron Williams doesn't become a reasonably good starting CB, then the hole at CB would remain unfilled. As Bills fans have learned, a hole at any DB position creates a void--a void which tends to suck in early draft picks. That's why it's so important for Williams to be a good starting CB, and for the Bills to find success at safety with players like Searcy.
Cynical Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) The top 5 guys on this list are in another world. Its those five and everybody else. I guess if you like being "The Best of the Rest" then good for you Donte. If that gets you paid, America is a great place. Whatever. I am sick of this guy. See ya Donte. Ohio State Sucks, you prolly got all your tats for free and paid off people like Tress-dawg to keep it quiet. Whatever pal. Have fun in obscurity (like Nate Odoms when he left). Not exactly a comparable situation. Nate was a 2 time pro bowler when he left, and was considered one of the top cover CB in the league. Bate fell into "obscurity" because he blew his knee out. Twice. He wasn't the same player after that. Edited May 5, 2011 by Cynical
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 1) I love the people who try to bash this list. Yeah, ESPN is biased towards Whitner playing in big market Buffalo. Accept it, the guy is a much better player than most "fans" want to give credit for. 2) Whitner needs to step away from Twitter. As a pro athlete, I don't get what purpose it serves. To let computer tough guys say things they won't say to your face? To let fans who value another person's profession a bit too much attack them? To express your opinion and get in trouble with the league. Whitner needs to stop because he does come across as an emotional wreck. But I still have a lot more respect for the pro athlete than the idiots who attack the athlete. IF you're happy with your own life, you don't need to attack others. 3) All things consider, you need to go with the big player over the smaller one. I think Denver will regret passing on Dareus for Miller. Their loss is our gain. So Whitner over Ngata was a mistake. That said, while DW hasn't been an all pro for us, he has been a very solid player and leader. He gave his all, embraced everything about the team and the city, yet most fans never gave him a chance. He didn't pick himself. Part of what makes playing for the Bills special is the fans. But what a bunch of bitter a holes that have popped up. And if you honestly believe Whitner is the reason the Bills have missed the playoffs for a decade, you're on glue. Look at the QB position.
MaineMoxie Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 every year we seem to miss keeping better players, be it Winfield, Clements, Peters, Jennings, McGahee, Schobel etc and on and on. Somewhere along this line we had better expect to not only draft good players,but have a strategy for keeping them. It isn't good enough that at the end we think they "don't want to" stay with the Bills. This is a real problem. Please tell me you're being sarcastic. Winfield was excellent, Clements was good but not worth the money, Peters - seriously? Peters?, Jennings maybe, McGahee has been supplanted in Balto, and Schobel retired (great player, but weird - really weird dude).
Recommended Posts