Bring Back Kelly Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81fa301a/article/pats-ability-to-maneuver-helps-produce-another-solid-class No love for us as usual. I thought we had a solid draft. I might have went for Tyrod Taylor instead if Chris White, but all in all I thought the Bills did well. Fox sports reports a A+. but Still no love from NFL.com Bucky Brooks none the less. What are your grades?
Zulu Cthulhu Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Eh, draft grade columns are space fillers for the most part - no one knows how any of the teams did for at least one year. But, since you're asking nicely, i'd give the Bills a preliminary B+. i would've like to see another tackle candidate, maybe a tight end. Very pleased overall however. Didn't like any of the qbs besides Newton, glad we didnt take any of them.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It seems that all of the sites, draftniks and sportswriters that give the Bills good to great grades just looked at the players we drafted, the positions they play, and the affect they could or should have on the team as a whole. And conversely, all of the places, draftniks and sportswriters that trashed the draft, decided the Bills needed a QB or LT or OLB (which is dead wrong) and didn't try to get one or more of them, so because of that, they downgraded the draft by 2-3 grades.
Bob in STL Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Bucky Brooks! Bucky Brooks was a bust. They say it takes on to know one.
zow2 Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It seems that all of the sites, draftniks and sportswriters that give the Bills good to great grades just looked at the players we drafted, the positions they play, and the affect they could or should have on the team as a whole. And conversely, all of the places, draftniks and sportswriters that trashed the draft, decided the Bills needed a QB or LT or OLB (which is dead wrong) and didn't try to get one or more of them, so because of that, they downgraded the draft by 2-3 grades. Agreed. When you read the negative writers grades they mainly refer to the fact the Bills did not address a need at QB (to groom). Which is ridiculous b/c you should evaluate a draft on the players the team took, not who they didn't take or a position they bypassed.
KollegeStudnet Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 What else do you expect from a "D+" player who played 5 years in the NFL for 5 different teams who grades drafts. Bucky wanted Von Miller and Gabbert for the Bills--his mock didn't go the same way he'd hoped.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It seems that all of the sites, draftniks and sportswriters that give the Bills good to great grades just looked at the players we drafted, the positions they play, and the affect they could or should have on the team as a whole. And conversely, all of the places, draftniks and sportswriters that trashed the draft, decided the Bills needed a QB or LT or OLB (which is dead wrong) and didn't try to get one or more of them, so because of that, they downgraded the draft by 2-3 grades. This is one of the better observations in the draft aftermath even given that it's pretty obvious that very few of the draft analysts considered who was actually available at the time of each pick. For instance, several sites criticized the Bills for not picking an OT earlier in the draft. Yet there was not a single OT worthy of the 3rd pick. Then 6 OTs were taken between picks #9 and #32 so that when the Bills picked at #34, there was no OT worthy of that pick (and many analysts considered Dallas' selection of Tyron Smith to be a reach). In fact in the 2nd round there was only one OT taken, Marcus Gilbert at #65 by the Steelers. In the 3rd round there were two OTs taken, Jah Reid at #85 by the Ravens and Joseph Barksdale at #92 by the Ravens. In the 4th round the Bengals took OT Clint Bolling at #101 and the Giants took James Brewer at #117. The Bills then took Chris Hairston at #122, the 12th OT off the board. Hairston was in a large group of 2nd tier tackles who were all graded similarly including the 5 tackles taken from the 2nd round on (after the 6 first round tackles). The Bills got great value for Hairston while still being able to draft Williams and Sheppard first. There are virtually hundreds of examples of this happening to every team throughout the draft. It's one of the reasons that knowledgeable fans understand that you can't fill every need in one draft.
bisonbrigade Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Bucky Brooks was a bust. They say it takes on to know one. You got that right. Loser Player, Loser Commentator.
Dragonborn10 Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It seems that all of the sites, draftniks and sportswriters that give the Bills good to great grades just looked at the players we drafted, the positions they play, and the affect they could or should have on the team as a whole. And conversely, all of the places, draftniks and sportswriters that trashed the draft, decided the Bills needed a QB or LT or OLB (which is dead wrong) and didn't try to get one or more of them, so because of that, they downgraded the draft by 2-3 grades. Agreed. These are the same guys that say the best teams draft best available player instead of reaching for a need. Then they turn around and bash the Bills for not drafting a QB. Dalton and Copernicus will be garbage in the NFL. How many times do you think it would be a good idea to draft a QB who played at Nevada in the pistol offense or was a 4 year starter that won a lot of games on a team with an amazing defense and played garbage competition. Ken Dorsey had many wins and played in much bigger games than Dalton and he flamed out of the NFL. Once Darues fell to them and Locker/Ponder were off the board QB was a dead position.
Vinny4sum Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 My favorite part is how the Bills failed to address the the QB position and they get a bad grade. The Dolphins get a better grade and I would argue they have a bigger need at QB than the Bills. td int yds rat Fitzy in 13 games 23 15 3000 81.8 Henne in 14 games 15 19 3301 75.4 Bucky mailed it in.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It seems that all of the sites, draftniks and sportswriters that give the Bills good to great grades just looked at the players we drafted, the positions they play, and the affect they could or should have on the team as a whole. And conversely, all of the places, draftniks and sportswriters that trashed the draft, decided the Bills needed a QB or LT or OLB (which is dead wrong) and didn't try to get one or more of them, so because of that, they downgraded the draft by 2-3 grades. I agree with you: those who trashed the Bills draft did so on the basis of match to perceived need vs. quality of draftees + impact Not quite sure why OLB and OT not positions of need though? If Bell goes down is Wang really ready to play LT? Are we counting on Merriman to be healthy and Moats to be ready to play?
BuffaloBill Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 My favorite part is how the Bills failed to address the the QB position and they get a bad grade. The Dolphins get a better grade and I would argue they have a bigger need at QB than the Bills. td int yds rat Fitzy in 13 games 23 15 3000 81.8 Henne in 14 games 15 19 3301 75.4 Bucky mailed it in. I like the thoughts. The truth is that the Bills we see no love until they start winning consistently. 10 year playoff droughts don't earn you much love.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 My favorite part is how the Bills failed to address the the QB position and they get a bad grade. The Dolphins get a better grade and I would argue they have a bigger need at QB than the Bills. Not just you, but Dolphins former players \ - direct quote from Nick Buoniconti that "the Bills are ahead of us (rebuilding) because they have Ryan Fitzpatrick" I'll feel cosier about that concept when we're ahead of them on points at the end of the game
NewEra Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 This is one of the better observations in the draft aftermath even given that it's pretty obvious that very few of the draft analysts considered who was actually available at the time of each pick. For instance, several sites criticized the Bills for not picking an OT earlier in the draft. Yet there was not a single OT worthy of the 3rd pick. Then 6 OTs were taken between picks #9 and #32 so that when the Bills picked at #34, there was no OT worthy of that pick (and many analysts considered Dallas' selection of Tyron Smith to be a reach). In fact in the 2nd round there was only one OT taken, Marcus Gilbert at #65 by the Steelers. In the 3rd round there were two OTs taken, Jah Reid at #85 by the Ravens and Joseph Barksdale at #92 by the Ravens. In the 4th round the Bengals took OT Clint Bolling at #101 and the Giants took James Brewer at #117. The Bills then took Chris Hairston at #122, the 12th OT off the board. Hairston was in a large group of 2nd tier tackles who were all graded similarly including the 5 tackles taken from the 2nd round on (after the 6 first round tackles). The Bills got great value for Hairston while still being able to draft Williams and Sheppard first. There are virtually hundreds of examples of this happening to every team throughout the draft. It's one of the reasons that knowledgeable fans understand that you can't fill every need in one draft. Well said. I couldn't be happier that we waited til our 2nd 4th round pick to grab Hairston. As a group, I thought this is one d the worst OT drafts in recent years. Sure, there were 6 taken in round one, but if these guys were in the 2009 draft, I'm not sure one of them would be 1st Rd picks. We stuck to our draft board and selected bpa in need positions instead of reaching to fill selected positions.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 I agree with you: those who trashed the Bills draft did so on the basis of match to perceived need vs. quality of draftees + impact Not quite sure why OLB and OT not positions of need though? If Bell goes down is Wang really ready to play LT? Are we counting on Merriman to be healthy and Moats to be ready to play? LT has a healthy starter. All of the first three picks could or should be starters, if you include nickel back as a starter since he plays 50% of the snaps. The biggest need was stopping the run, which Dareus was the best in the draft at. I don't think the Bills specifically avoided drafting an OLB but the fact is that Shawne Merriman is going to start and Moats is going to back him up. We have to see if both or either of them is going to be able to pressure the QB. The other starter like it or not is going to be Chris Kelsay. That OLB position is not going to be filled by a pass rushing OLB, it is a contain, cover and tackle OLB. Kelsay may not be that guy but all of the good OLB prospects were DE converts or pass rushers. That is why I didnt see us taking guys like Houston or Brooks Reed, because they werent going to play until we found out about Merriman. Nix fully believes Merriman is going to be solid. Again, regardless of whether that is true or not remains to be seen, but we need to know.
JasoninMT Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 If your defense can't get off the field - and the other teams run run run... that's going to impact your offensive output. By improving the Defense, we should be able to provide better field position and put less pressure on it. Not one of those draft analysts is going to eat crow later when those QB's do nothing. Let's see how the defense does next season - when our 7th round NT sits on Brady. For some reason I really like that kid, I think it was the drive he had to lose weight, his wonderlic score being high, and the athletic skills even at his size. Can you imagine if he's able to drop more fat and add more muscle with real strength/conditioning?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 LT has a healthy starter. All of the first three picks could or should be starters, if you include nickel back as a starter since he plays 50% of the snaps. The biggest need was stopping the run, which Dareus was the best in the draft at. I don't think the Bills specifically avoided drafting an OLB but the fact is that Shawne Merriman is going to start and Moats is going to back him up. We have to see if both or either of them is going to be able to pressure the QB. The other starter like it or not is going to be Chris Kelsay. That OLB position is not going to be filled by a pass rushing OLB, it is a contain, cover and tackle OLB. Kelsay may not be that guy but all of the good OLB prospects were DE converts or pass rushers. That is why I didnt see us taking guys like Houston or Brooks Reed, because they werent going to play until we found out about Merriman. Nix fully believes Merriman is going to be solid. Again, regardless of whether that is true or not remains to be seen, but we need to know. Talking about the first 3 picks, certainly draft to improve the starting lineup. I can't disagree that DE and ILB greater positions of need than OT and OLB. Just to be clear, I'm also not intending to argue the draft. One can't fill as many needs as we have in 1 draft, just can't. From what you're saying, it sounds like you agree on the OLB need. "Like it or not" = "or not" when we're talking Kelsay at OLB. He consistently failed to set the edge and contain. Damn straight he's not that guy. I hope Merriman is healthy, maybe Batten can move outside, but OLB is still a need. Maybe not a need worthy of a draft pick in 2011, I hope we can pick up some reasonable FA though. If your defense can't get off the field - and the other teams run run run... that's going to impact your offensive output. Not one of those draft analysts is going to eat crow later when those QB's do nothing. Let's see how the defense does next season - when our 7th round NT sits on Brady. I don't care if the QB who were drafted light the place up. You said it right in your first sentence - if you ain't got D you ain't got sh**. Can Brady be body-slammed before he's sat on? I agree with you, I like that kid.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Talking about the first 3 picks, certainly draft to improve the starting lineup. I can't disagree that DE and ILB greater positions of need than OT and OLB. Just to be clear, I'm also not intending to argue the draft. One can't fill as many needs as we have in 1 draft, just can't. From what you're saying, it sounds like you agree on the OLB need. "Like it or not" = "or not" when we're talking Kelsay at OLB. He consistently failed to set the edge and contain. Damn straight he's not that guy. I hope Merriman is healthy, maybe Batten can move outside, but OLB is still a need. Maybe not a need worthy of a draft pick in 2011, I hope we can pick up some reasonable FA though. I agree with you. My point is really that there are two OLB positions in a 3-4 and they have markedly different responsibilities. The thread is about these draftniks grading the Bills for not taking an OLB because it is, to them, a drastic need. My point is that there were no good players to fill that need that play the Kelsay position, there were several to fill the Merriman/Moats position. But we don't want to draft one of them because we need to find out about Merriman as well as Moats. That is why I was never really on board with the Von Miller pick, and I had word the Bills weren't either. I think they would have taken Gabbert over Miller had Dareus gone #2 precisely because they worried Miller wasnt big enough to play the run and Merriman was going to play the rush OLB position in the 3-4. I didnt see any starter in the draft that was going to take the Kelsay position, they were all pass rushers (Houston, Reed, etc)
Bring Back Kelly Posted May 3, 2011 Author Posted May 3, 2011 I like the thoughts. The truth is that the Bills we see no love until they start winning consistently. 10 year playoff droughts don't earn you much love. You are right on with that one. But the progress we will make with the defense will keep us in more games next year and maybe even win one or two. I still think our schedule is very tough, but by just having Dareus and Williams on the line together will be good. If Merriman pans out and our secondary makes improvements, we should at lease garner a Monday night game the following year.
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