Wagon Circler Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The articles seem to imply that because these guys are free agents, they won't be back. Why not? They both had pretty good seasons. At the least, they provide quality depth. How come if a guy has a good season and he's a free agent, he has to leave? Is it necessary to have a 1st or 2nd year player backing up every position? I know it saves Ralph money but we're already 80 zillion dollars under the cap. If you replace a good veteran with a good rookie, that is actually zero improvement in your team. Blowing off our free agents every year does not allow us to improve the overall roster. We're always drafting to replace 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Both expendable. Both of them, Whitner, can all take a hike. See ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If you replace a good veteran with a good rookie, that is actually zero improvement in your team. I can't agree with this statement. We would be lucky if we could replace aging veterans with rookies and not have a drop-off in play this coming year because that is huge clue they will be even better the next year. We can't suffer from mediocrity any longer. We need youngsters that can outplay our current vets right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I think a strong push will be made for Florence. Ayodele was brought in when Mitchell went down for the year. I'd like to have him back but I Have a a feeling he wont be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The articles seem to imply that because these guys are free agents, they won't be back. Why not? They both had pretty good seasons. At the least, they provide quality depth. How come if a guy has a good season and he's a free agent, he has to leave? Is it necessary to have a 1st or 2nd year player backing up every position? I know it saves Ralph money but we're already 80 zillion dollars under the cap. If you replace a good veteran with a good rookie, that is actually zero improvement in your team. Blowing off our free agents every year does not allow us to improve the overall roster. We're always drafting to replace 'em. You have an excellent point about the need for quality depth and the futility of replacing a good player with a rookie rather than resigning the good player AND developing the rookie. In the case of Florence (30) and Ayodele (31), they are both older players nearing (or at) the end of their career. Florence was cut from the Jags after only 1 year of a 6 year deal and signed to provide depth due to injuries. Ayodele was signed as a backup last year to replace injured players and to allow last year's rookies to develop. He was previously cut from the Dolphins and the Broncos. So in both these cases, the idea is to make roster room for players returning from IR and for 2nd year developmental players or talented rookies - these guys were never intended to be long-term solutions. I would personally like to see Florence re-signed as long as he keeps it clean and avoids the troubling personal foul history, which in San Diego arguably cost the Chargers a playoff game. I think he's still got some gas in his tank, and we're thin at DB due to no DB drafted last year, injury-prone players, and the possible loss of Whitner. Ayodele probably needs to make way for some young, developing guys. The player to whom your point applies more is actually Donte Whitner. He's only 25, he was drafted by the Bills with the hope he'd be a long-term starter. We've paid him while he learned the game. He's part of the target population of players the Bills need to be able to re-sign, even if his tweeting is annoying and the fans blame him because he isn't Ngata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Both expendable. Both of them, Whitner, can all take a hike. See ya. Florence was actually pretty good. We can't afford to let him just walk. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The articles seem to imply that because these guys are free agents, they won't be back. Why not? They both had pretty good seasons. At the least, they provide quality depth. How come if a guy has a good season and he's a free agent, he has to leave? Is it necessary to have a 1st or 2nd year player backing up every position? I know it saves Ralph money but we're already 80 zillion dollars under the cap. If you replace a good veteran with a good rookie, that is actually zero improvement in your team. Blowing off our free agents every year does not allow us to improve the overall roster. We're always drafting to replace 'em. Going back to Winfield and Clements, it's not that the Bills didnt want to re-sign them, but rather that the Market dictated they would command much more than they were worth. Clements especially with signing a $100million contract. Also, it's a two way street. If Whitner doesnt WANT to come back, and I wouldnt blame him, what can the Bills do? This year was weird and special because there was no FA before the draft. So no one in the Bills FO (or any team's FO) can say which of their FAs theyll end up re-signing. EVERY TEAM made some picks that they normally wouldnt have, in order to replace FAs this year. LAst point: Even if they DO bring back Florence and Whitner (which I think they should), with the addition of our draft picks, we're STILL coming in with barely 6 CBs, and 5 Safeties. Without those draft picks, and without re-signing Florence/Whitner, we'd be coming into camp with 3 CBs and 3 Safeties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoretalk Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 You have an excellent point about the need for quality depth and the futility of replacing a good player with a rookie rather than resigning the good player AND developing the rookie. In the case of Florence (30) and Ayodele (31), they are both older players nearing (or at) the end of their career. Florence was cut from the Jags after only 1 year of a 6 year deal and signed to provide depth due to injuries. Ayodele was signed as a backup last year to replace injured players and to allow last year's rookies to develop. He was previously cut from the Dolphins and the Broncos. So in both these cases, the idea is to make roster room for players returning from IR and for 2nd year developmental players or talented rookies - these guys were never intended to be long-term solutions. I would personally like to see Florence re-signed as long as he keeps it clean and avoids the troubling personal foul history, which in San Diego arguably cost the Chargers a playoff game. I think he's still got some gas in his tank, and we're thin at DB due to no DB drafted last year, injury-prone players, and the possible loss of Whitner. Ayodele probably needs to make way for some young, developing guys. The player to whom your point applies more is actually Donte Whitner. He's only 25, he was drafted by the Bills with the hope he'd be a long-term starter. We've paid him while he learned the game. He's part of the target population of players the Bills need to be able to re-sign, even if his tweeting is annoying and the fans blame him because he isn't Ngata. It seems like the tweeting epidemic has hit the Bills' defensive backfield. Both Florence and Whitner need to chill a bit if they really have any aspirations of remaining with the Bills. Florence for the most part has been a decent CB and has made some key plays during his tenure with the team. His age, his tweets, and the price of keeping him in addition to the new talent we are bringing in will probably send him on his way to another team. Whitner's very public statements about what he deserves to be paid was the wrong strategy of trying to stay with the Bills (it may have worked with BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE but Donte is no Bruce Smith). In addition some of his public whining has hurt but in the end he will find another starting job if he leaves the Bills. He is not as bad as some on this board make him out to be. He just wasn't worthy of where we selected him in the draft but that has never been his fault and he has been a Bills and Buffalo booster throughout his time here. Ayoldele has just been too quiet during his moments on the field and he is too old to worthy taking a roster spot away from one of our new "tough" young players. More than likely we will be working again by mid-autumn when injuries in the league start to mount. He is serviceable but not a front line player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If the Bills want Ayodele, they will have him. I don't think there's a lot out there for Ayodele in FA despite his 106 tackles. Florence to a similar degree. He's a cornerback on the wrong side of 30 that has done well in a particular defense. This doesn't mean that teams will be throwing money and interest at him. Depth is good, especially if it's affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Florence was actually pretty good. We can't afford to let him just walk. PTR Letting Florence go continues the pattern of letting good CB's go and then having to use high draft picks to replace them... Winfield Clements Greer Florence? I am probably missing one or two others from the last decade of futility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I think a strong push will be made for Florence. Ayodele was brought in when Mitchell went down for the year. I'd like to have him back but I Have a a feeling he wont be I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Letting Florence go continues the pattern of letting good CB's go and then having to use high draft picks to replace them... Winfield Clements Greer Florence? I am probably missing one or two others from the last decade of futility. Not really, for a couple of reasons. #1, first and foremost, all of those other players were picked and let go by a different FO. #2, all of those other players were DRAFT PICKS, that we did not re-sign. Florence was an aged veteran stopgap who we brought in because we couldnt fill every hole through the draft. Winfield, Clements, and Greer were allowed to walk as they were coming into their prime. Florence is 30+, losing a step, and an over-priced veteran due to how long he has been playing. Id say letting Whitner walk would be more along the lines of the previous FOs. And a mistake as well. All that said, I agree we should re-sign him. But the team's previous management and decisions have absolutely nothing to do with it. It should also be noted that the Most Drafted Position in the 2011 Draft, was DB with 54. The next most drafted position was DL with 44. So EVERY team drafts DBs EVERY year. The Pats* took a CB one spot before we did, and this the 5th straight year the Patriots took a DB in either the first or second round. We will most likely draft DBs next year. And the year after. Just like all the other teams too. Edited May 2, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Florence was good, our best DB by far last year. I think the Bills would love to keep him, but good luck getting our owner to pay fair market value for him. I have a feeling there will be many teams interested, driving up the value. Whitner sucks, let him go, especially for the money he is asking. Bryan Scott is better, and should have been the starter last year anyway. Ayodele is just an average player, guys like him are a dime a dozen. I think the Bills can, and should, do better. Key to point out here is that the Bills drafted all for all of these positions in the first 4 rounds, Williams, Sheppard, and Searcy. Pretty good picks at that IMO, on paper at least. I hope we can keep Florence, that would be huge. I'm not optimistic about the chances though, the rest of them...cya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Going back to Winfield and Clements, it's not that the Bills didnt want to re-sign them, but rather that the Market dictated they would command much more than they were worth. Clements especially with signing a $100million contract. Hmmmm.....I guess I'm a little thin on the diff. between "not wanting to re-sign a player" and not being willing to pay him what the market says he is worth? I get that there's a difference between releasing a player and wanting to keep a player on the roster if you can agree to terms But if the terms are "market value" doesn't "not willing to pay market value" = "not wanting to re-sign them" unless there's an issue on the Bills side, such as salary cap? LAst point: Even if they DO bring back Florence and Whitner (which I think they should), with the addition of our draft picks, we're STILL coming in with barely 6 CBs, and 5 Safeties. Without those draft picks, and without re-signing Florence/Whitner, we'd be coming into camp with 3 CBs and 3 Safeties... Puzzled here: Bills have 5 CB on the roster right now. If they re-sign Florence and bring in two rookies, that'll be 7? Bills have 5 safeties on the roster right now. If they resign Whitner and bring in one rookie, that'll be 6? I think the point stands if Whitner and Florence both go, without the rookies it would be 4 and 4 - very thin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Hmmmm.....I guess I'm a little thin on the diff. between "not wanting to re-sign a player" and not being willing to pay him what the market says he is worth? I get that there's a difference between releasing a player and wanting to keep a player on the roster if you can agree to terms But if the terms are "market value" doesn't "not willing to pay market value" = "not wanting to re-sign them" unless there's an issue on the Bills side, such as salary cap? Puzzled here: Bills have 5 CB on the roster right now. If they re-sign Florence and bring in two rookies, that'll be 7? Bills have 5 safeties on the roster right now. If they resign Whitner and bring in one rookie, that'll be 6? I think the point stands if Whitner and Florence both go, without the rookies it would be 4 and 4 - very thin The old FO very well may have WANTED to re-sign a player, but not investing $100mil into an over-hyped CB is also a smart move. How do you determine the bigger "bad move" between having to invest another draft pick at CB or tying up $100mil in cap space on a small market team for a CB who isnt that good? Damned if you do, Damned if you dont. The CBs that are on the Bills roster RIGHT NOW are: McKelvin McGee Corner That's IT. Florence and Yobouty are unsigned FAs and there is no promise they are coming back. With the 2 rookies and re-signing Florence, that's 6 total. The Safeties on the team are: Byrd Scott Wilson That's IT. Whitner is an unsigned FA. With him and the rookie, that's 5 total. So even if we DO re-sign our FAs, we still needed to draft DBs. Edited May 2, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Florence said after the season he was long gone. Ayodele was on the trash heap - won't be brought back unless all other options are exhausted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I'd like to have both of them back....if the price is right. I thought Florence was one of our best players on D during his tenure with the bills. That being said, he'll probably be looking for a 4-5 million a year contract. I can't see us paying him that much due to his age. If we can get him for 3 mill a year, it'll be a steal and we should make it happen. That will allow Williams to learn a bit before being thrown into the fire as a starter this year. With McGees injury history, that may very well be the case if Florence isn't resigned. I think Ayodele played well last year too. Much better than I had anticipated. If he can be had for a minimum type salary, why not? At worst, he's a valuable depth player, if that is, he makes the team. Having him in training camp as competetion for the younger guys, could bring the best out of them. Bottom line, don't overpay for them. If they can be had for the right price, bring them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Florence was actually pretty good. We can't afford to let him just walk. PTR Drayton Florence was too inconsistent. We can draft/find someone better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Drayton Florence was our best defensive back the entire season in 2010. Even if you ASSUME Aaron Williams can ball from day 1, McGee has looked old for a long time and McKelvin just hasn't been that good yet. Florence should be re-signed; he likely won't be expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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