We can win with Fitz

[southernbill]

In Fitzpatrick I trust! Give him the proper tools around him and see if his career numbers don't improve, every game he's played in had featured a mediocre defense and sub-par offensive line, just ask Carson Palmer if you don't believe me.

[Rockinon]

I don't understand why this is such a debate. He is what he is. He's a 55% passer who will throw 20-25 td's and 15-20 int's. Everybody loves him. Fans. FO. Teammates. He's a great leader and a gamer but nobody wants him to be their starter for longer than 1-2 years. He is an excellent backup (hence why his 4 games before Baltimore were outstanding, because that what backs are supposed to do, win 1-4 games for your team) and the rest of the year he showed who he really is. He doesn't have an accurate enough arm. Over throws and under throws too many passes but will pull the occasion play out of his backside that has everyone saying "Wow, this guy has the potential to be great"

The reason you can't understand the debate, is because you can't get past your ridiculous statistics. There is far more to being QB than passer ratings and interception numbers. The things you don't understand are the same things that most young people tend to give far too little merit to. Things like leadership, wisdom, perseverance or a never quit attitude can't be measured by statistical numbers. These things never the less do have merit and if you can't look at them, you can't see them. If you can't see that there are no rookies with the same qualities, you will never understand the "debate".

[UConn James]

I see Fitz as kind of similar to Jay Fiedler.

 

I think he can at least be a stopgap while this team builds up (especially on D) back to where it needs to be. No real point in bringing in a so-called "franchise QB" when most of the parts around him aren't adequate. It's like buying a new battery for a car whose alternator isn't functioning well enough to keep charge on the battery.

[Alphadawg7]

The reason you can't understand the debate, is because you can't get past your ridiculous statistics. There is far more to being QB than passer ratings and interception numbers. The things you don't understand are the same things that most young people tend to give far too little merit to. Things like leadership, wisdom, perseverance or a never quit attitude can't be measured by statistical numbers. These things never the less do have merit and if you can't look at them, you can't see them. If you can't see that there are no rookies with the same qualities, you will never understand the "debate".

 

Actually sir, you are the one who cant get past stuff...you cant get past the intangibles he does have like you listed here and see that his short comings in his ability.

 

The TRUTH is...you can not be a consistently successful QB (or player for that matter) on just talent alone. You also can not to be successful on just leadership and wisdom alone. This is especially true at QB. All the physical gifts in the world wont let you succeed in the NFL if you dont understand the game, cant lead your team, dont play with heart or confidence, etc. Just like you wont be successful in the NFL if you have all the heart, guts, and wisdom in the world but your ability just isnt there to consistently succeed.

 

And you are completely wrong about what the doubters see with Fitz. None that I see ever doubt his on field leadership, guts, etc. when they look at Fitz. Its the ability to consistently execute on the field, accuracy issues, turnover issues, below average arm forcing him to throw too hard to add zip (which lowers his accuracy) that people have a problem with.

 

So while you are hung on only one part of his game and ignore the ability short comings, we who doubt him applaud those things he excels at yet recognize his ability isnt at a place to translate those gifts into consistent success in the NFL.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[reddogblitz]

I don't understand why this is such a debate. He is what he is. He's a 55% passer

Actually,he is a career 57.8 passer. As Al Sharpton would say "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."

 

And he played a lot better last year than the year before. Now he's got the whole off season as the #1 guy to work with all the other starters. I saw enough improvement last year to suspect that more is on the way. If he sucks this year, then yeah, he's toast. But at least give the guy a chance.

[WickedGame]

Here's a rough synopsis of the logic around here:

 

Jim Kelly was awesome.

Ryan Fitzpatrick IS NOT Jim Kelly.

Therefore, Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

Andy Dalton/Ryan Mallett/Colin Kaepernick IS NOT Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Therefore, Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick does not suck.

 

Does not suck > Does suck.

 

Therefore, we need to draft Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick, or we suck. And anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

[Rockinon]

Actually sir, you are the one who cant get past stuff...you cant get past the intangibles he does have like you listed here and see that his short comings in his ability.

 

The TRUTH is...you can not be a consistently successful QB (or player for that matter) on just talent alone. You also can not to be successful on just leadership and wisdom alone. This is especially true at QB. All the physical gifts in the world wont let you succeed in the NFL if you dont understand the game, cant lead your team, dont play with heart or confidence, etc. Just like you wont be successful in the NFL if you have all the heart, guts, and wisdom in the world but your ability just isnt there to consistently succeed.

 

And you are completely wrong about what the doubters see with Fitz. None that I see ever doubt his on field leadership, guts, etc. when they look at Fitz. Its the ability to consistently execute on the field, accuracy issues, turnover issues, below average arm forcing him to throw too hard to add zip (which lowers his accuracy) that people have a problem with.

 

So while you are hung on only one part of his game and ignore the ability short comings, we who doubt him applaud those things he excels at yet recognize his ability isnt at a place to translate those gifts into consistent success in the NFL.

Nice. Still walking around with blinders on. Capitalizing the word truth doesn't make it true. Seriously, there is no QB in this draft that is better than Fitz. None. Further, at pick #1 in this draft, there is was not a better QB than Fitz. Are there better QBs? Yes, absolutely. But you are reaching for something that is not there, in this draft class. You completely overlook his experience level and other traits. If you really want to have those stats of yours lifted higher, you do so by giving the guy something to work with, like a line that can protect him for more 3 seconds on passing plays or a line that can open holes for rushing plays. How about a TE, even. Or better yet give him a defense that will put him back on the field and give him more opportunities. The fixation on finding a replacement at QB is just narrow minded. If it's for an actual "Franchise" prospect then, yes. You roll the dice. But if they ain't there, you open your mind and look for another way to get the job done.

[Alphadawg7]

Nice. Still walking around with blinders on. Capitalizing the word truth doesn't make it true. Seriously, there is no QB in this draft that is better than Fitz. None. Further, at pick #1 in this draft, there is was not a better QB than Fitz. Are there better QBs? Yes, absolutely. But you are reaching for something that is not there, in this draft class. You completely overlook his experience level and other traits. If you really want to have those stats of yours lifted higher, you do so by giving the guy something to work with, like a line that can protect him for more 3 seconds on passing plays or a line that can open holes for rushing plays. How about a TE, even. Or better yet give him a defense that will put him back on the field and give him more opportunities. The fixation on finding a replacement at QB is just narrow minded. If it's for an actual "Franchise" prospect then, yes. You roll the dice. But if they ain't there, you open your mind and look for another way to get the job done.

 

LMAO...I find it hilarious when foolish statements like this get posted where people sitting on the couch eating a bag of cheese puffs declare they know that there is no franchise QB in this draft. Man NFL teams really missed the boat not hiring you as both a scout and a prophet...enjoy the cheese puffs

[thewildrabbit]

Nice. Still walking around with blinders on. Capitalizing the word truth doesn't make it true. Seriously, there is no QB in this draft that is better than Fitz. None. Further, at pick #1 in this draft, there is was not a better QB than Fitz. Are there better QBs? Yes, absolutely. But you are reaching for something that is not there, in this draft class. You completely overlook his experience level and other traits. If you really want to have those stats of yours lifted higher, you do so by giving the guy something to work with, like a line that can protect him for more 3 seconds on passing plays or a line that can open holes for rushing plays. How about a TE, even. Or better yet give him a defense that will put him back on the field and give him more opportunities. The fixation on finding a replacement at QB is just narrow minded. If it's for an actual "Franchise" prospect then, yes. You roll the dice. But if they ain't there, you open your mind and look for another way to get the job done.

I agree sorta, If there was a QB in this years draft better then Fitz I think the Bills would have drafted him. Although perhaps the Bills thought Cam Newton was good enough, but I hope not tho considering his character issues. Anyway, every QB in the draft this year was either a project or had a shady past, the Bills had other needs to fill.

 

Is Fitz a franchise QB... no, not ATM IMO. But lets not forget how well he played given his surrounding cast of players, a walk on RT, no TE, no running game, one WR. With Lee Evans injured and out Fitz helped a kid come off the bench get 1000 yards receiving and 10 TDs.Lets also not forget how Trent Edwards and Brian Brohm played with this same supporting cast of players, they both fell on their faces. If Chan Gailey states that he can win with Fitz, I for one believe him... so why not give him the chance I say.

 

The Bills would have won that game against the Super bowl runner up Pittsburgh Steelers, in Buffalo, in overtime, if Stevie Johnson doesn't drop that TD pass right in his hands, in the end zone. Fitz played pretty well against the Ravens on the road in Baltimore also taking that game to overtime.... I look at Fitz and see a journeyman QB like Rich Gannon, another guy who wasn't a "franchise" QB, but was good enough to take the Raiders to a SB.

[frogger]

I don't think its a question of "can we win with fitz?" The question should be are we better with the other options? My guess is no, fitz can teach this offense, no player will have a better grasp, he can game manage, he is loved by his teammates, he's not a flashy cali QB. I love what the front office is doing, its what we said we wanted. If fitz fails, we'll have the option next year of getting a QB. I'm not a fan of a 0 and 16 record. But to give you some possible light, blaine was given a 8.0 rating by cbs sports the highest of this years class, the "scout" then said, 9.0 is the highest, he then said Andrew luck scored a 9.0 based on the film he saw.

[KOKBILLS]

I agree sorta, If there was a QB in this years draft better then Fitz I think the Bills would have drafted him. Although perhaps the Bills thought Cam Newton was good enough, but I hope not tho considering his character issues. Anyway, every QB in the draft this year was either a project or had a shady past, the Bills had other needs to fill.

 

Well...This is straight from Buddy...

 

On if there would have been more consideration if Dareus had gone No. 2 to go offensively or with QB Blaine Gabbert:

 

BN: Very likely, yea.

 

On how the quarterback position has sorted itself out based on his expectations:

 

Obviously there were some shockers last night. But we’re to the point, and I think I’ve said this a lot of times, but with the first pick we wanted a franchise guy. If he wasn’t there then we were going to get better on defense and work on needs if the right guy was there. We are still going to go to camp with probably four quarterbacks, so that’s not to say we won’t take one in the draft, but it’s also not to say we wouldn’t go after a veteran to be a back-up for us and then take another arm to camp. He might be a college free agent.

 

On if how it (the quarterbacks) fell affected the team’s game plan much:

 

Maybe a little bit. We didn’t think Marcell (Dareus) would be there. Now the whole thing leading up to it until the last day or two, we thought he’d be gone. But when he was there and (Cam) Newton was gone, he was there, it was an easy pick.

 

So...QB at #3 became secondary when Cam was gone and Dareus fell to them...Makes sense...The run on QB's in the 1st Round made getting one at #34 that they were comfortable with as a potential Franchise QB impossible...Again, makes sense...There's no indication, based on what The GM said, that they think Fitz was better than any of the Top QB's in this Draft or that they would not have Drafted a QB that was not named Newton...There is every indication that's not the way The Draft fell and they stuck to their Board...

 

There comfortable with Fitz Folks, that's all...They were still looking for a Franchise QB though, which tells you EXACTLY what they think about Fitz longterm...And they absolutely felt there were QB's that were better longterm options than Fitz in this Draft...It just did not fall in such a way that one of those QB's would be available when they Picked, and Buddy is not big on moving around...

Edited April 30, 2011 by KOKBILLS

[8-8 Forever?]

Once you guys figure out that we can, indeed, win with Fitz, you'll see that it is clear that we need to get stronger on the OL and LB's (DT taken care of). I would personally like to see our offense play ball without having to worry about the defense giving up 400 yards per game each week, and actually be able to run the ball with a lead!

 

Focus on the lines first, then defense the rest of the way!

 

Go get a veteran FA in Free Agency to back up Fitz in case he goes down with an injury.

win 2 games during a messed up labor dispute-shortened season and then draft Andrew Luck. That is the plan.

[Rockinon]

LMAO...I find it hilarious when foolish statements like this get posted where people sitting on the couch eating a bag of cheese puffs declare they know that there is no franchise QB in this draft. Man NFL teams really missed the boat not hiring you as both a scout and a prophet...enjoy the cheese puffs

You mean the way you are at this moment yourself? Have some more cheese puffs. It was good of you to reveal not only how narrow minded but also how shallow you are. Now you are resorting to making stuff up because you can't come up with a real argument. Pitiful. Why don't you go back to school and ask your teacher to give you some lessons. That's all. I am finished speaking to a foolish teenager with overblown sense of self importance.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Fitz over the 9 games following Balt game to finish out the season:

 

56% completion

12 TDs

16 Turnovers

QB rating = 70%

 

We cant win with that no matter how you spin it. That is amongst the worst in the NFL.

 

Dawg, give it a rest already. We all know the stats. We all know the W/L record.

 

Most of us also know that football is a team sport

 

It's been pointed out to you before that the OL was a patchwork decimated by injuries at the end of the season with a revolving door at RT, the WR were a patchwork decimated by injuries, and the run D was such a joke that any mistake by the offense was fatal. It could be pointed out that both Mannings, Brees, Hasselback, Cutler, and Bradford threw more picks than Fitz - and it didn't matter so much because they had a team on the other side of the ball to get it back.

Why would one bother, when it's know you'll just come up with some rationalization to blow off any fact that doesn't support your viewpoint (or just ignore it) and carve out a little slice of reality that does "float your boat"?

 

The truth is, we don't know how good Fitz might become. He clearly took a step last year. He's at a point in the number of games he's played where later-round draft picks commonly do take a step, if they're going to be good.

He clearly needs to take another step. But it's not just on him. The whole team needs to take a step.

 

Either your viewpoint is correct, or a more positive viewpoint is correct, and there's only one way to tell at this point - play the games next season.

 

The fact is, at this point the Bills front office has voted. They're sticking with Fitz this year and trying to fill other needs. You don't like their vote, you think you know more and see better than they do, fine. Maybe you do.

You're not likely to unearth new evidence to persuade someone who doesn't already hold your viewpoint, because this is the off-season and NONE EXISTS. Just like none of us will come up with new evidence to persuade you and your ilk, 'cuz none of that exists either.

 

So what purpose does it serve to trumpet endlessly all over TBD? Is it like picking a scab, it gives you pleasure even though you know it serves no purpose and could cause an infection?

Seriously. What do you get out of this ceasless anti-Fitz barrage? A dollar each post and you're saving for a new 'Benz? Sexual pleasure from Fitz-bashing? Free beer? You're really Levi Brown and think if you post enough, aliens from Area 51 will invade Arizona and abduct Fitz, leaving you at the helm?

 

Really, what's in it for you?

[CodeMonkey]

The reason you can't understand the debate, is because you can't get past your ridiculous statistics. There is far more to being QB than passer ratings and interception numbers. The things you don't understand are the same things that most young people tend to give far too little merit to. Things like leadership, wisdom, perseverance or a never quit attitude can't be measured by statistical numbers. These things never the less do have merit and if you can't look at them, you can't see them. If you can't see that there are no rookies with the same qualities, you will never understand the "debate".

Ahhh the age old rallying cry for people who lack ability.

List things of at most minor importance and can't be quantified.

Fitz is a great guy, a gamer to be sure, and is a stud backup QB.

He will be fine for this year but starting the year after we will need a QB with the ability to start for a good NFL team. Not just one who doesn't suck as bad as the guys who held that position previously. The sooner they get said QB and let him start learning under Fitz the better.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Here's a rough synopsis of the logic around here:

 

Jim Kelly was awesome.

Ryan Fitzpatrick IS NOT Jim Kelly.

Therefore, Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

Andy Dalton/Ryan Mallett/Colin Kaepernick IS NOT Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Therefore, Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick does not suck.

 

Does not suck > Does suck.

 

Therefore, we need to draft Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick, or we suck. And anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

 

By George, I think he's got it!

 

Ahhh the age old rallying cry for people who lack ability.

List things of at most minor importance and can't be quantified.

 

I like to read your posts 'cuz you usually have a good viewpoint even if I disagree.

 

But to dismiss "things like leadership, wisdom, perseverance or a never quit attitude" as "of, at most, minor importance" is one of the most stunningly silly things I've ever encountered

[RyanC883]

Actually,he is a career 57.8 passer. As Al Sharpton would say "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."

 

And he played a lot better last year than the year before. Now he's got the whole off season as the #1 guy to work with all the other starters. I saw enough improvement last year to suspect that more is on the way. If he sucks this year, then yeah, he's toast. But at least give the guy a chance.

 

 

I wouldn't quote Al Sharpton when trying to make a point, he makes up facts. At any rate, in large part, the Fitz doubters have solid facts to back up their arguments. It's fitz "intangibles" that make him an acceptable stop-gap for next season.

 

Here's a rough synopsis of the logic around here:

 

Jim Kelly was awesome.

Ryan Fitzpatrick IS NOT Jim Kelly.

Therefore, Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

Andy Dalton/Ryan Mallett/Colin Kaepernick IS NOT Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Therefore, Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick does not suck.

 

Does not suck > Does suck.

 

Therefore, we need to draft Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick, or we suck. And anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

 

 

You hit it right on the head.

[Alphadawg7]

You mean the way you are at this moment yourself? Have some more cheese puffs. It was good of you to reveal not only how narrow minded but also how shallow you are. Now you are resorting to making stuff up because you can't come up with a real argument. Pitiful. Why don't you go back to school and ask your teacher to give you some lessons. That's all. I am finished speaking to a foolish teenager with overblown sense of self importance.

 

Narrow minded? Ha, you think I am narrow minded because I think you are a complete fool to make such a stupid statement that there are NO franchise QB's in this draft? Anyone who talks in absolutes before these kids have even played a single down in the NFL isn't worth the time to have a discussion with. Doesn't matter if you are declaring he will be great or a bust...making absolute statements on draft day is of the highest ignorance and it just makes me laugh.

 

As far as Fitz goes, if anyone actually read what happened you would see that Chan/Nix stayed true to our draft board, which I applaud them for and it's about time we did that rather than reach. At #3, MD was the highest rated player on their board after Cam went off, and they took him as they 100% should have. When we got to our 2nd pick, there was not a QB left at the top of our board they felt worth taking there, so again they didn't reach, and again I applaud them for that. I personally wanted Mallet there, but clearly the FO either didn't think he was a franchise guy for us (probably because of the character issues), and I am fine with that.

 

They said they wanted a franchise guy and from what I have gathered, the only 3 QB's they coveted as that guy in the first 2 rounds were Cam, Gabbert, and Ponder. Cam went #1, Gabbert was there at 3 but they had Dareus one spot higher than him on their board and stayed true to their board (as they should have), and Minn shocked everyone and took Ponder at 12. Once that happened, they continued to address their D, again as they should have as it needs a lot of help.

 

Overall...they feel we still need a franchise guy, the draft didn't fall that way, and thats fine as we still had a great draft. They said they are getting another QB still either in the draft or FA (maybe both) to bring to camp. I have no problem with Fitz as our QB next year, that doesn't mean I am content with him as our long term starter. I had just hoped he could be grooming a young guy, it didn't work out that way, and so be it...but we did have a great draft in terms of prospects, so let's hope they flourish because our D needs it.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[KOKBILLS]

Here's a rough synopsis of the logic around here:

 

Jim Kelly was awesome.

Ryan Fitzpatrick IS NOT Jim Kelly.

Therefore, Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick sucks.

Andy Dalton/Ryan Mallett/Colin Kaepernick IS NOT Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Therefore, Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick does not suck.

 

Does not suck > Does suck.

 

Therefore, we need to draft Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick, or we suck. And anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

 

You know what...There are a TON of dumb Post here every day/week/year...But that has to rank in Top 100 dumb posts of all time at TSW...

 

Just a little hint for you...Over-generalization gets you nowhere, proves nothing, does not make you smart or clever...It just makes you look like someone who cannot back up his opinion with facts so you're going to overgeneralize and TRY to belittle Folks so they back down...That will NEVER work on TSW...EVER...You will be challenged because there are some REAL smart Football minds around here regardless of the occasional idiot that pops in and out...

 

So...Yes Ryan Fitzpatrick is < Jim Kelly...

 

No Ryan Fitzpatrick does not suck...But he's also not a Franchise QB...Not even close up to this point...He's a career 12-23 QB as a Starter with a 73 lifetime QB rating...

Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick may or may not be better than Fitz...We'll see in a few years...Mallett and Kaepernick CLEARLY have a higher upside than Fitz...No one knows if they'll ever reach that upside...Jim Harbaugh and Bill Belichick are betting on the fact they will...Those 2 NFL HC's know more about Football than you do...

 

The Bills STILL need a Franchise QB of the future, a FACT that their GM and HC FULLY admit...A FACT that several Folks around here understand...But we also understand the Dareus Pick and the lean towards Defense in this Draft...It does not change the fact that we don't feel like Fitz can be a consistent winning QB in the NFL...And if we're lucky, we're wrong...We'll see...

 

Now you may return to over-generalize to your hearts content...

[Rockinon]

Ahhh the age old rallying cry for people who lack ability.

List things of at most minor importance and can't be quantified.

Fitz is a great guy, a gamer to be sure, and is a stud backup QB.

He will be fine for this year but starting the year after we will need a QB with the ability to start for a good NFL team. Not just one who doesn't suck as bad as the guys who held that position previously. The sooner they get said QB and let him start learning under Fitz the better.

And if Fitz ends up being a top 5 QB this season? With a great supporting cast, he has a better chance than any of the youngsters coming out of college this year. I do think we can find a better QB at some point, but it just isn't going to happen this year and it never was going to happen this year because the talent is not available. To be honest though, Fitz could very well improve greatly. It has happened before and he seemed to be progressing in that direction last year. That is not something you ignore.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Rockinon