ieatcrayonz Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Occam's razor (a principle that suggests we should tend towards simpler theories until we can trade some simplicity for increased explanatory power) says they are considering Newton. My personal opinion is all this talk of smokescreens is a bit beyond Buddy and Chan. You mean Occum's Shaver but your conclusion could be correct.
1billsfan Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Just because beating things to a dead horse is what we do best on this message board, let me reiterate that there is literally 0 evidence to suggest Miller would be a bust. I'm beginning to think that the only reason so many Bills fans are down on this guy is because his record is flawless to the point that they are beginning to think its too good to be true. Because he is so highly regarded, Bills fans MUST be skeptical after having fallen for that bait so many times. So yea, lets draft Robert Quinn, a guy with a TON of question marks. He didn't even play last year and there are mixed opinions on him from scouts, so I really can't even figure out where Bills fans are basing this "I'd be happy with him at 3" opinion off of. I'm not saying he won't be good, but I am saying that he is a huge unknown. Do you really want to take an unknown at 3? Despite being on the Miller band wagon, for the record, I'm beginning to warm to the idea of other options. I'm indifferent to Newton, but I am beginning to think that he will be a real option for the Bills and that is regardless of the fact that he met with Nix. Its more because his presence will immediately breathe life into a franchise that is in desperate need of a "face". I won't go into how this could help the Bills find a new owner, but I think that could be a factor as to why this makes sense. As for Peterson, I find it hard to believe that the Bills would go DB, even it was a Revis type of player. They have so many glaring holes that can directly be traced back to their draft day failures to address the D-line/O-line before addressing the secondary. There are a lot of good CB's in the league, Champ Bailey being the one that comes to mind first, that despite playing up to their ceiling have not played a significant role in getting their team to the playoffs. That is because defensive backs have an isolated role in terms of impact. They have to go QB or defensive front 7. I don't care who the best player available is. I think the deal with Miller is that he's seen as a speed guy, where Quinn has the moves, size and strength package that all the top rushing OLBs have in the NFL. Today, I'd be happy if we got one of these guys...Newton, Fairley, Dareus, Quinn. If they took Peterson or Green, I'd just have to grin and bear it and feel they were avoiding a bust pick at all costs.
LABills08 Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 I think the deal with Miller is that he's seen as a speed guy, where Quinn has the moves, size and strength package that all the top rushing OLBs have in the NFL. Today, I'd be happy if we got one of these guys...Newton, Fairley, Dareus, Quinn. If they took Peterson or Green, I'd just have to grin and bear it and feel they were avoiding a bust pick at all costs. That's fair. Clearly Quinn has all of the tools. But do we know he can play the 3-4? Do we have any ideas on how well he'll do in coverage? I'm assuming he is a better fit for strong side in the 3-4, but maybe I'm wrong. Feel free to enlighten.
Captain Hindsight Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Latest from Kiper That summed up my feelings on newton, i think he is a one year wonder and players like that just worry me. We cant miss on this pick
BuffaloBud Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Without reading the entire string, and my apologies if someone else commented the same thing, it is known as "due diligence". Plus, the Bills are not wanting to tip their hand to anyone at this juncture.
1billsfan Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 That's fair. Clearly Quinn has all of the tools. But do we know he can play the 3-4? Do we have any ideas on how well he'll do in coverage? I'm assuming he is a better fit for strong side in the 3-4, but maybe I'm wrong. Feel free to enlighten. I just see the top rush OLBs being more Quinn's size.
NewEra Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Well he was accurate today in a very windy stadium.... Now I wonder what the anti-Cam Newton crowd will say.. *Shrug* I'm thinking they'll go back to the footwork (that even improved)... Thats the anti-Cam's fall back line... They'll say the wind blew the passes to the WRs. I don't love cam. I don't hate cam. If we had a different HC, I'd probably be a little disappointed if we drafted him. I think Chan can male this kid look good and develop him into a player. The thing that scares me...how long will Chan be around?
1billsfan Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 That summed up my feelings on newton, i think he is a one year wonder and players like that just worry me. We cant miss on this pick Kiper turned in his QB evaluator card last year with the whole Jimmy Claussen man-love fiasco. Plus, I get the distinct feeling that there's a whole lot of NFL teams feeding falsified information to their former GM pundit buddies. On the NFL Network, Casserly said that out of more than ten and less than 20 current GMs that he's talked to (GMs that know he's going on the air with the info), only one has Newton over Gabbert! The funny thing is that Casserly actually believes them...LOL It's no wonder he doesn't have a job as a GM.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Kiper turned in his QB evaluator card last year with the whole Jimmy Claussen man-love fiasco. Plus, I get the distinct feeling that there's a whole lot of NFL teams feeding falsified information to their former GM pundit buddies. On the NFL Network, Casserly said that out of more than ten and less than 20 current GMs that he's talked to (GMs that know he's going on the air with the info), only one has Newton over Gabbert! The funny thing is that Casserly actually believes them...LOL It's no wonder he doesn't have a job as a GM. I'm kinda scared because you and I are on the same page a lot lately. I think that Kiper simply covering his ass comes into play, as well. Especially since he overreacted, like a dummy, and dropped Newton off his top-5 QB board altogether after the Combine. If he were to all of a sudden love Cam again, he'd be making it obvious that he truly doesn't have a clue.
RichardBag Posted March 10, 2011 Author Posted March 10, 2011 Cam's Full Pro Day Workout: Git "IT"!!!
Andy1 Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 For what its worth, I saw Trent Dilfer on ESPN this evening raving about Cam's pro day work out. He thought what was most impressive was his ability to understand why he was overthrowing receivers and ability to self correct his throwing motion to hit his receivers. Personally, I think Dilfer is one of the smartest football guys in the media and certainly a lot more knowledgeable about QBs than Kiper & McShay. Dilfer felt very strong about Newton's ability to develop to a "high ceiling". I'm not an advocate of taking a QB at 3 but if we get him, I'll back him 100%. What I really want though is a nasty DEFENSE!
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Charlie Casserly Said he wouldn't take Newton in the first round and doesn't believe he will be a good pro, I couldn't agree more.
1billsfan Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 I'm kinda scared because you and I are on the same page a lot lately. I think that Kiper simply covering his ass comes into play, as well. Especially since he overreacted, like a dummy, and dropped Newton off his top-5 QB board altogether after the Combine. If he were to all of a sudden love Cam again, he'd be making it obvious that he truly doesn't have a clue. I hear ya!...LOL It's weird, the more the "experts" hate on Newton, the more I'm liking him. If someone would believe that 14 out 15 (approx.) GMs are loving Blaine Gabbert over Cam Newton then they would believe pigs fly. Charlie Casserly Said he wouldn't take Newton in the first round and doesn't believe he will be a good pro, I couldn't agree more. That was both a strange and ridiculous statement made by Casserly and by making it, he's pretty much assured himself he will never become an NFL GM ever again.
LabattBlue Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) Charlie Casserly Said he wouldn't take Newton in the first round and doesn't believe he will be a good pro, I couldn't agree more. You mean the same Charley Casserly who drafted David Carr #1 overall? Casserly also was the GM with the Redskins when they drafted Heath Shuler #3 overall. Remember him? Edited March 10, 2011 by LabattBlue
1B4IDie Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 You mean the same Charley Casserly who drafted David Carr #1 overall? Casserly also was the GM with the Redskins when they drafted Heath Shuler #3 overall. Remember him? And you wonder why, he is a "former GM." Sounds like if you do the opposite of what he recommends you have a better shot at being successful than following his advise.
Fixxxer Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 You mean the same Charley Casserly who drafted David Carr #1 overall? Casserly also was the GM with the Redskins when they drafted Heath Shuler #3 overall. Remember him? Or maybe he's not buying the athlete or the arm strenght hype. It was great listening to Billick at the combine talking about QBs. He mentioned Boller as being one of the reason he is now a reporter and not a coach anymore. When he was the Baltimore HC they needed a QB and they had this physicall specimen in Boller, he could run, had amazing arm strenght but he wasn't very accute in terms of football knowledge. He said his arrogance lead him to believe he could make a QB out of him. He said that Boller and him put the time and effort to make Boller better but in the end the shortcomings were too much and no amount of arm strenght was going to solve the problem. Billick's candor and humility were great to hear, specially when you thought the guy was not capable of being that auto-critic. It seems being out of the HC job humbled the guy. In terms of QBs you can't allow yourself to get blinded by hype, arm strenght (worry only if it is sufficient) or how fast a guy can run, the main reason QBs fail is because the guys that drafted them thought they could coach those guys up.
1B4IDie Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Or maybe he's not buying the athlete or the arm strenght hype. It was great listening to Billick at the combine talking about QBs. He mentioned Boller as being one of the reason he is now a reporter and not a coach anymore. When he was the Baltimore HC they needed a QB and they had this physicall specimen in Boller, he could run, had amazing arm strenght but he wasn't very accute in terms of football knowledge. He said his arrogance lead him to believe he could make a QB out of him. He said that Boller and him put the time and effort to make Boller better but in the end the shortcomings were too much and no amount of arm strenght was going to solve the problem. Billick's candor and humility were great to hear, specially when you thought the guy was not capable of being that auto-critic. It seems being out of the HC job humbled the guy. In terms of QBs you can't allow yourself to get blinded by hype, arm strenght (worry only if it is sufficient) or how fast a guy can run, the main reason QBs fail is because the guys that drafted them thought they could coach those guys up. Yeah I guess if the guy doesn't already have 3 years in the NFL going into the draft you just shouldn't draft him.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Yeah I guess if the guy doesn't already have 3 years in the NFL going into the draft you just shouldn't draft him. Exactly. EVERY qb coming into the NFL needs to be "Coached Up". Some of them succeed, and some of them fail. It has very little to do with how well their college program prepared them. Guys that come from "pro" type systems fail just as much as those that dont. EVERY QB in this draft will need to be coached up. Mallet might be the only one who anyone can say might be ready to start on Week 1. And even that's pushing it. Not saying that a QB or 2 wont surprise us and pick up quickly in training camp. But if we're talking about prospects and drafting, they all need work.
Fixxxer Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Yeah I guess if the guy doesn't already have 3 years in the NFL going into the draft you just shouldn't draft him. Is that what you really took from my post? Of course a rookie will need to be coached up, but if the guy doesn't have a certain feel for the position, he can work with the coaching staff 24/7 and still fail. I was just trying to point out that many people like Newton because he's an amazing athlete but not many here can claim that he can play with the instincts and anticipation required for the position. I think it is very hard to project Newton's passing ability to the pros, he threw to a lot open and stationatry recevier at Auburn. The data to really study his game is incomplete and by drafting him you're making a huge leap of faith he can be an effective passer in the NFL. In a league that features the pass more and more, we're debating about bringing a guy with only 280 passing attempts against tough competition.
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