Mango Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 So you're saying we should Pick Gabbert? I don't see how anyone could read the top post here and conclude that. Can you quote what I posted about Gabbert? The simple reality is that it appears likely that CAR will pick a QB, either Cam or Gabbert. Behind them is Denver, which will likely give Tebow at least another year. Given the perception, however "unfounded," of a QB need here, and the odds of a trade up by Wash, SF, AZ, TN, even Cincy is pretty high assuming CAR takes a QB... y'all are gonna be lucky to have one left at 3... So my position is as follows. Cam is neither Vince Young nor JaMarcus, and anyone who compares Cam to either of those two is a complete idiot who should be ignored permanently on any subject related to the sport of football. I haven't taken a position on Gabbert because I haven't watched enough of Gabbert to opine. I have watched a lot of Cam, and assuming Cam is OK in cold weather, Cam would be an absolute steal at 3... That's my take. Any other insinuations or speculations or things that should be left in the PPP forum are irrelevant... so i am confused, you u didnt talk about gabbert, but now you did...so hes your guy now??? Are you drunk? i think he has made it abundantly clear that he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 When being compared To Blaine.... i hate the idea that people assume that white qb pick up on schemes and reads faster than blk qb's.... How about that they are equally talented, until proven otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I think their wonderlic scores are what lend support to the belief that Gabbert may be quicker at learning an NFL playbook/reads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Sorry if already posted... reports...Newton to be in town Monday, will have 1 on 1 with Chan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 wonderlic scores are largely irrelevant and are just fodder for the fans, just like "mock" drafts. You see thats why Gailey wants to sit down with these guys and go over stuff on film, you get to see if a prospect understands he pre snaps reads and can recognize shifting coverages. Its far less important whether a guy can tell you when two trains leaving two cities will meet traveling at X speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 When being compared To Blaine.... i hate the idea that people assume that white qb pick up on schemes and reads faster than blk qb's.... How about that they are equally talented, until proven otherwise You are just now catching on to this board! and the word is borderline not boarder like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 When being compared To Blaine.... i hate the idea that people assume that white qb pick up on schemes and reads faster than blk qb's.... How about that they are equally talented, until proven otherwise If you cared to post links to the comparisons you have in mind, one could more meaningfully comment. Otherwise all one can do is say "your opinion is noted" and move on. Part of the NFL assessment process is asking players to diagram plays and break down film, so the coaches can see for themselves how fast a player picks things up. The results are confidential to the assessing team. Stuff does leak out though. So how do you know what you read is based on assumption, and not assessment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 wonderlic scores are largely irrelevant and are just fodder for the fans, just like "mock" drafts. You see thats why Gailey wants to sit down with these guys and go over stuff on film, you get to see if a prospect understands he pre snaps reads and can recognize shifting coverages. Its far less important whether a guy can tell you when two trains leaving two cities will meet traveling at X speed. If Blaine is the next Arron Rogers im all for it....But i read some articles and i be like they arent even talking about football... one was like Blaine is all about Football...while Cam is concerned about being a Superstar....Cam had off field issues friends and his father...while off field Blaine spends time with his highschool sweetheart who he plans to marry or he goes fishing with his father.. it just bothers me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) It's a common statement. In this particular case it is probably definitely true. It's the product of college football and the NCAA system. At the college level you can give a supremely athletically gifted QB the ball and tell him to go win games for you while others that aren't so ridiculously athletic don't have the option of taking off and running for 15 - 50 yards. Coaches are not preparing them to play in the NFL. Coaches are preparing them to win on Saturday. Team wins on Saturday and the school gets notoriety, financial compensation, coaches get to keep their jobs, etc. It's not so much a black/white thing exactly as it is a desire to win. Tebow is a great example. A supremely gifted QB who was coached to exploit those gifts at the college level but didn't prepare him as well as they could have for the NFL. Edited March 25, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 You are just now catching on to this board! and the word is borderline not boarder like thanks was talking and typing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 wonderlic scores are largely irrelevant and are just fodder for the fans, just like "mock" drafts. You see thats why Gailey wants to sit down with these guys and go over stuff on film, you get to see if a prospect understands he pre snaps reads and can recognize shifting coverages. Its far less important whether a guy can tell you when two trains leaving two cities will meet traveling at X speed. They are (Wonderlic tests) actually quite useful at gauging intelligence / mental capacity. Cam is slightly below average intelligence. Blaine isn't. Dumb people generally have more obstacles to overcome but can do it with drive, effort, and hard work. That's why they have the sit down interviews - to see what else a player can bring to the table. To call someone below average intelligence isn't racist, its stating a fact. No matter what type of test people take intelligence doesn't change. Personalities might, but not smarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 If Blaine is the next Arron Rogers im all for it....But i read some articles and i be like they arent even talking about football... one was like Blaine is all about Football...while Cam is concerned about being a Superstar....Cam had off field issues friends and his father...while off field Blaine spends time with his highschool sweetheart who he plans to marry or he goes fishing with his father.. it just bothers me You have a point there to a great extent. The media emphasizing the slightest thing can largely sway public opinion. Cam has star power and quality and will be scrutinized like a star and will have those types of stories written about him. Gabbert is the apple pie all american guy they want to tell heart warming stories about. That being said the issues with Cam's father do set him up to be viewed as such. The problem is is that there is a lot more to his story than his father and telling a sponsor he was signing with that he was a star and a spokesman. The media doesn't tell that part though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 They are (Wonderlic tests) actually quite useful at gauging intelligence / mental capacity. Cam is slightly below average intelligence. Blaine isn't. Dumb people generally have more obstacles to overcome but can do it with drive, effort, and hard work. That's why they have the sit down interviews - to see what else a player can bring to the table. To call someone below average intelligence isn't racist, its stating a fact. No matter what type of test people take intelligence doesn't change. Personalities might, but not smarts. Google wonderlic and see how many NFL people as well as sportswriters comment on how the test doesnt predict success and is largely not used. Its just not used in any way you have described it. Favre scored a 22, Big Ben a 23, so they must be idiots who have no chance to succeed? ? SI just did a piece on how there is no correlation btwn the wonderlic and success. btw Eli manning scored 10 points higher than Peyton, who only scored a 28......the same score as mark sanchez and lower than JP Losman, Rex Grossman and a host of other scrubs. ITs about football, there have been plenty of guys who arent booksmart but can read a defense. Thats why coaches want one on one interviews. To talk football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 You have a point there to a great extent. The media emphasizing the slightest thing can largely sway public opinion. Cam has star power and quality and will be scrutinized like a star and will have those types of stories written about him. Gabbert is the apple pie all american guy they want to tell heart warming stories about. That being said the issues with Cam's father do set him up to be viewed as such. The problem is is that there is a lot more to his story than his father and telling a sponsor he was signing with that he was a star and a spokesman. The media doesn't tell that part though I believe Cam can become the Lebron James of the NFL....and im not a Lebron fan...but i think he has that kind of ability and presence...but before being draft everyone talked about what Lebron couldnt do verse what he could do now look .... BTW: Im Fine wit Ryan at QB, and getting Ponder or Mallet in the 2nd rd if they are available and draft Von Miller with the 3rd pick...but im not going to be disapointed if we draft Cam or Blaine... just dont like some comparisons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 wonderlic scores are largely irrelevant and are just fodder for the fans, just like "mock" drafts. You see thats why Gailey wants to sit down with these guys and go over stuff on film, you get to see if a prospect understands he pre snaps reads and can recognize shifting coverages. Its far less important whether a guy can tell you when two trains leaving two cities will meet traveling at X speed. My point was that it is not baseless, or purely based on race, that Gabbert is smarter or could be quicker to pick things up than Newton. Gabbert's phenominal Wonderlic score illustrates that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Google wonderlic and see how many NFL people as well as sportswriters comment on how the test doesnt predict success and is largely not used. Its just not used in any way you have described it. Favre scored a 22, Big Ben a 23, so they must be idiots who have no chance to succeed? ? SI just did a piece on how there is no correlation btwn the wonderlic and success. btw Eli manning scored 10 points higher than Peyton, who only scored a 28......the same score as mark sanchez and lower than JP Losman, Rex Grossman and a host of other scrubs. ITs about football, there have been plenty of guys who arent booksmart but can read a defense. Thats why coaches want one on one interviews. To talk football. Preach on! I do like to see my QB with a high wonderlick score but I agree it doesn't directly translate to the field and there are some very successful QBs that aren't in the 30's and 40's. There are also some bad ones with very high scores. Edited March 25, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Google wonderlic and see how many NFL people as well as sportswriters comment on how the test doesnt predict success and is largely not used. Its just not used in any way you have described it. Favre scored a 22, Big Ben a 23, so they must be idiots who have no chance to succeed? ? SI just did a piece on how there is no correlation btwn the wonderlic and success. btw Eli manning scored 10 points higher than Peyton, who only scored a 28......the same score as mark sanchez and lower than JP Losman, Rex Grossman and a host of other scrubs. ITs about football, there have been plenty of guys who arent booksmart but can read a defense. Thats why coaches want one on one interviews. To talk football. I'm quite familiar with the pros and cons of Wonderlic as I use it for my job frequently. Wonderlic has many tests - a CPP which measures personality (I don't think the NFL uses this) and a congnitive portion that measures intelligence. Did you even read what I wrote? I never said they predict success or failure. They measure intelligence. Half the people in the country have below average intelligence. That doesn't mean the same half are less successful, they just have a more difficult time doing it depending on their profession. Cam is below average. I didn't write he's going to suck because he's dumb. I just stated that he's dumb and therefore he'll probably have a more difficult time certain professions or portions of that profession. Also, other skills, such as work ethic, drive, competitive nature can all help overcome his low IQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Newton is a lot like Tebow. That's the comparison that should be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) I'm quite familiar with the pros and cons of Wonderlic as I use it for my job frequently. Wonderlic has many tests - a CPP which measures personality (I don't think the NFL uses this) and a congnitive portion that measures intelligence. Did you even read what I wrote? I never said they predict success or failure. They measure intelligence. Half the people in the country have below average intelligence. That doesn't mean the same half are less successful, they just have a more difficult time doing it depending on their profession. Cam is below average. I didn't write he's going to suck because he's dumb. I just stated that he's dumb and therefore he'll probably have a more difficult time certain professions or portions of that profession. Also, other skills, such as work ethic, drive, competitive nature can all help overcome his low IQ. WOW! You don't put much stock at all in the wonderlick test being the end all be all of a mans intelligence do you? Do you realize that some of the guys are trained and coached up on the wonderlick???? The same article I read also spoke to WR and DBs traditionally having HORRIBLE wonderlick scores because nobody cares what they score. It's not that every WR and DB in the NFL is an idiot. It's that it is not important so they don't put any effort into it. That being said isn't it just the tiniest bit possible that perhaps athletic QBs in general don't get coached up on or care too much about the wonderlick since their supreme athletic gifts will get them where they need to go on draft day? To my recollection Tebow didn't impress any Mensa members with his wonderlick score but nobody ever said he was "dumb". Hrmmmmm. Edited March 25, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van_phelaN1 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Newton is a lot like Tebow. That's the comparison that should be made. I think you are right on and this is a closer comparison. I can't stand the J. Russel comparisons myself. I dont't see them as much anymore butt back a while ago everywhere i went i would see comments claiming Newton is basically Russel 2.0 They aren't even close to the same style of QB. It's almost as if some people just see a tall black QB and think back to J. Russel without even actually comparing them on how they play the game. I personally don't care what color our QB (or any other player) is going to be as long as he is WINNING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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