All Newton all the time

[DrDawkinstein]

 

And like I have said numerous times. This guy was in the SEC. That is the top, cream of the crop, and they couldn't coach him out of the bad habits? I guess it does say something he was only there for 1 year and a half season in Florida.

 

 

WHOA whoa whoa whoa whoa....

 

What are you talking about here with "Couldnt coach him out of these bad habits"??

 

It's not Gene Chizik's job, or Nick Saban's job, or Urban Meyer's job to teach these kids how to be ab NFL quarterback. It's their job to win games for their school.

 

As much as college football is an acting farm league for the NFL, it is it's own entity with it's own goals.

 

College coaches don't even TRY to coach things like footwork and throwing motion. Look at the motion Tebow won with and came out of college with. Not even close to NFL ready, and it's not his or his coaches "fault", its just the way it is. You work on it and improve as you get to the next level that has different requirements.

 

He is raw, but that he's got this far on his raw talents doesn't impress me. Look at Lief Larson, the best raw talent in the last 15 years.

 

Just so we're clear, "this far" is Heisman trophy, undefeated, National Championship. Yeah, that is not impressive at all...

 

But making a second read would be impressive enough for you? Is this how you weight your criteria?

 

And WTF, Leif Larson, WTF are you talking about here? How long have you been awake?

 

 

 

Edit: jboyst, Ive seen you mention Sirius a couple of times. Did you get to see any of the Combine? Or are you just getting the reports?

Edited February 28, 2011 by DrDankenstein

[boyst]

WHOA whoa whoa whoa whoa....

 

What are you talking about here with "Couldnt coach him out of these bad habits"??

 

It's not Gene Chizik's job, or Nick Saban's job, or Urban Meyer's ...

College coaches don't even TRY to coach things like footwork and throwing motion. Look at the motion Tebow won with and came out of college with.

I do not disagree with you there, and that is why many say the gap between college and pro could not be further. NCAA coaches are finding ways to use their teams talent to win without developing the players further. USC used to develop pro players, and has slowly stopped. Going back to the Univ. Miami QB (name I am skipping) a lot of players come out raw and not Pro ready.

 

Saban and Meyer would be hard pressed to work with player development. I think that is why Meyer had problems with Leak.

 

Anyway, I have to think in the almost 7 weeks it has been since the Championship game he would have come out looking a little less raw then what he did. It was disappointing and only lets me wonder how much work he actually did to prepare - which is supposedly, a lot. So, now I wonder how much has got through to him in his football career.

[K-9]

Leif Larson? Best "raw" talent in 15 years?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

I do not disagree with you there, and that is why many say the gap between college and pro could not be further. NCAA coaches are finding ways to use their teams talent to win without developing the players further. USC used to develop pro players, and has slowly stopped. Going back to the Univ. Miami QB (name I am skipping) a lot of players come out raw and not Pro ready.

 

Saban and Meyer would be hard pressed to work with player development. I think that is why Meyer had problems with Leak.

 

Anyway, I have to think in the almost 7 weeks it has been since the Championship game he would have come out looking a little less raw then what he did. It was disappointing and only lets me wonder how much work he actually did to prepare - which is supposedly, a lot. So, now I wonder how much has got through to him in his football career.

 

Think about it this way, he's been working on his throwing and passing under a Pro style for ONLY 7 weeks. If the plan is to sit him behind Fitz for a year, that gives him about 75 more weeks to work on it before the start of the 2012 season.

 

Also, there has been a lot of talk from Mariuci and Mayock and referencing Jon Gruden and other NFL coaches who, in light of the new successful trends in NCAA, adopting those offenses into the NFL. Gruden has gone on record saying that if/when he returns to the NFL, he wants to be the first coach to run the spread offense full time.

 

Because of the growth and popularity of college football, instead of colleges following the pro game, it is starting to set the trends.

[FluffHead]

Think about it this way, he's been working on his throwing and passing under a Pro style for ONLY 7 weeks. If the plan is to sit him behind Fitz for a year, that gives him about 75 more weeks to work on it before the start of the 2012 season.

 

Also, there has been a lot of talk from Mariuci and Mayock and referencing Jon Gruden and other NFL coaches who, in light of the new successful trends in NCAA, adopting those offenses into the NFL. Gruden has gone on record saying that if/when he returns to the NFL, he wants to be the first coach to run the spread offense full time.

 

Because of the growth and popularity of college football, instead of colleges following the pro game, it is starting to set the trends.

 

 

I don't have the link, but during the senior bowl Chan was talking about mobile quarterbacks, the spread option, the zone read, things that are similar to what is popular in college spread offenses, the things Cam Newton ran better than anyone ever has in college. He commented, "The question is whether or not you want to be ahead or behind the wave. Be cause the wave is coming."

[DreReed83]

That is 1. An exaggeration and 2. A result of coaching.

If his coaches want him to extend the play in the pocket instead of run down the field I don't see any reason why he couldn't do that.

 

I guess You also dont realize no one cares if the passes are connected. They're looking at footwork and release.

 

No one is tracking completion percentage at the combine.

He has a 66% competition percentage on game tape, which is a thousand times more important than combine drills.

 

Theres a difference between extending the play too throw the ball, and extending the play to just run the ball all over the place. Sure that'll work at the college level, but that won't work at the next level. There are d-linemen who will hunt him down and knock his azz down. Once he scrambles he NEVER looks to throw the ball. It;s always to run the ball.

 

I know they look at footwork and release but you OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the combines. Some of his out passes weren't just a foot over the receivers heads. They were like 6 feet over their heads. LITERALLY. ? That's NOT an exaggeration. NOT EVEN CLOSE. 10 YD OUT PASSES !!! U kidding me

 

Footwork? His footwork looked even worse.

 

You're obviously the one that doesn't know his "game." Or lack there of.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e857f6/Grading-Cam-s-workout

 

Look at 30 seconds in. YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME. Yea and that face he makes? You're gonna be seeing him make that face a billion times at the next level.

 

According to TGreg that can't be fixed. SORRY.

By the way. For a guy who's that big he has SMALL hands. And small hands is also a negative in my book.

Edited February 28, 2011 by DreReed83

[DrDawkinstein]

I don't have the link, but during the senior bowl Chan was talking about mobile quarterbacks, the spread option, the zone read, things that are similar to what is popular in college spread offenses, the things Cam Newton ran better than anyone ever has in college. He commented, "The question is whether or not you want to be ahead or behind the wave. Be cause the wave is coming."

 

Bingo!

 

And who else is sick of the Bills hopping onto trends after it's too late and everyone has figured them out already? Tampa 2 anyone?

[Mr. WEO]

Theres a difference between extending the play too throw the ball, and extending the play to just run the ball all over the place. Sure that'll work at the college level, but that won't work at the next level. There are d-linemen who will hunt him down and knock his azz down. Once he scrambles he NEVER looks to throw the ball. It;s always to run the ball.

 

I know they look at footwork and release but you OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the combines. Some of his out passes weren't just a foot over the receivers heads. They were like 6 feet over their heads. LITERALLY. ? That's NOT an exaggeration. NOT EVEN CLOSE. 10 YD OUT PASSES !!! U kidding me

 

Footwork? His footwork looked even worse.

 

You're obviously the one that doesn't know his "game." Or lack there of.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e857f6/Grading-Cam-s-workout

 

Look at 30 seconds in. YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME. Yea and that face he makes? You're gonna be seeing him make that face a billion times at the next level.

 

According to TGreg that can't be fixed. SORRY.

By the way. For a guy who's that big he has SMALL hands. And small hands is also a negative in my book.

 

His hands are 9 7/8". I'm sure that's much larger than most if not all men's hands you've encountered.

 

The football has not changed in size recently.

[Dorkington]

I have to wonder.... has any QB been absolutely perfect coming out of college? I've never seen this level of nit picking and high expectations of a rookie QB before, but maybe I've just missed it?

 

The way I see it, yeah, he's raw... but the talent is there, and imo, so is his head. I believe he will be successful as long as he gets in a proper system that will coach him up. (Is that Buffalo? No idea) If he doesn't get in the right system with the right coaches and team, then I see him becoming a blow out, as he'll be expected to do too much too soon.

[boyst]

I have to wonder.... has any QB been absolutely perfect coming out of college? I've never seen this level of nit picking and high expectations of a rookie QB before, but maybe I've just missed it?

I have never seen this much hype on a one year standout. The same falls true on that aspect, as well.

[DreReed83]

His hands are 9 7/8". I'm sure that's much larger than most if not all men's hands you've encountered.

 

The football has not changed in size recently.

 

What does that have to do with anything?

 

I'm sure his hands ARE much larger than most if not all men's hands I've encountered. But for an NFL QB and a guy his size, his hands aren't that big. Drew Brees who is almost 5 inches shorter has 10 inch hands. Sanchez 10.5 inches. He's almost 3 inches shorter. Stafford 10 inches. Freeman 10 inches.

 

It's not a make or break thing but just something to keep note of.

 

All you have to do is watch him throw a simple 5-10 yd out pattern. Probably one of the most basic throws at the NFL level and he's nowhere close to his target. A couple inches or a foot in the wrong direction, i can understand, but he's nowhere near his target.

[DrDawkinstein]

I have never seen this much hype on a one year standout. The same falls true on that aspect, as well.

 

BS, every year there is hype about a number of players. I think you are mistaking "news" articles with hype. I see a ratio of about 90:10 of hate:hype. The hate on this kid is ridiculous.

 

I dont love the guy. If it was me in the GM drivers seat, Id probably go DL. The reason I support him on here is because the hate against him is so out of control and unfair. Im simply trying to balance it out so we can have an actual conversation about him.

 

The news on Newton is primarily given from a negative standpoint, not sure how that translates into "hype". Mayock, and the rest of us arent hyping him, we're simply saying "Stop hating and treat him like the others".

[boyst]

BS, every year there is hype about a number of players. I think you are mistaking "news" articles with hype. I see a ratio of about 90:10 of hate:hype. The hate on this kid is ridiculous.

 

I dont love the guy. If it was me in the GM drivers seat, Id probably go DL. The reason I support him on here is because the hate against him is so out of control and unfair. Im simply trying to balance it out so we can have an actual conversation about him.

I don't read the news articles on the guy, surprisingly I read very little on anything. I draw my own conclusions to the best of my ability. The hate on the kid is not unfair. Tony Washington received far more hate. Vick, Roethlesberger and Stallworth, as well, and I do not see many people supporting them because the media paints them so poorly. The only player who I cannot root for in professional sports is LeBron James, whom I want to see ran over with the space shuttle carry a herd of elephants. Cam Newton receives my "hate" because I think he's just not a good player prospect in the NFL - not because of anything personally. I do not know him, but I must judge his professional decision making on his amatuer athletic career in the NCAA which is riddled with issues.

 

The news on Newton is primarily given from a negative standpoint, not sure how that translates into "hype". Mayock, and the rest of us arent hyping him, we're simply saying "Stop hating and treat him like the others".

I am far from hating on the guy. I would never cheer against a players success. As far as the media goes we all must understand it is their position in their jobs. They want the heels and the baby faces, the stories and plots. They want to sell their product. But, at the end of the day, these guys are Pro's who give their opinion on professional sports.

[Mr. WEO]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

I'm sure his hands ARE much larger than most if not all men's hands I've encountered. But for an NFL QB and a guy his size, his hands aren't that big. Drew Brees who is almost 5 inches shorter has 10 inch hands. Sanchez 10.5 inches. He's almost 3 inches shorter. Stafford 10 inches. Freeman 10 inches.

 

It's not a make or break thing but just something to keep note of.

 

All you have to do is watch him throw a simple 5-10 yd out pattern. Probably one of the most basic throws at the NFL level and he's nowhere close to his target. A couple inches or a foot in the wrong direction, i can understand, but he's nowhere near his target.

You brought up hand size. His hands are large. Plenty big enough to fully grip a football.

 

Unless there is another reason to be concerned with his hand size that you aren't elaborating.

 

Go ahead.....(rolling eyes).

[DreReed83]

You brought up hand size. His hands are large. Plenty big enough to fully grip a football.

 

Unless there is another reason to be concerned with his hand size that you aren't elaborating.

 

Go ahead.....(rolling eyes).

 

AGAIN...For those who have a difficulty understanding what I'm saying. FOR A MAN OF HIS SIZE. For someone who is 6'5" his hands are on the small side. Compared to Gabbert, Mallett, Stanzi, Ponder who are 10" and over.

 

Especially for someone that runs around like that, I'd be weary of his ball security.

 

Wait for it......

[K-9]

AGAIN...For those who have a difficulty understanding what I'm saying. FOR A MAN OF HIS SIZE. For someone who is 6'5" his hands are on the small side. Compared to Gabbert, Mallett, Stanzi, Ponder who are 10" and over.

 

Especially for someone that runs around like that, I'd be weary of his ball security.

 

Wait for it......

 

Geeze, you make the guy sound like he has David Krieg hands. Small for his size in relation to other QBs? Maybe. Are his hands too small to grip a football? Not even close. Did he have an issue with ball security in college given how often he ran it? Didn't think so.

 

There may be many reasons to not favor Newton. Hand size isn't one of them. Not even close. You are grasping for straws with this argument. Depending on your hand size, I'm not certain how much straw you can grasp.

Edited February 28, 2011 by K-9

[DreReed83]

Geeze, you make the guy sound like he has David Krieg hands. Small for his size in relation to other QBs? Maybe. Are his hands too small to grip a football? Not even close. Did he have an issue with ball security in college given how often he ran it? Didn't think so.

 

There may be many reasons to not favor Newton. Hand size isn't one of them. Not even close. You are grasping for straws with this argument. Depending on your hand size, I'm not certain how much straw you can grasp.

 

A MAN FOR HIS SIZE. If you think he's gonna succeed at the NFL level running around like he did in college, you're mistaken. I don't know if you noticed but defenses are a TAD faster at the next level. They're better at stripping the ball. He got away with whatever he wanted but he's not going to get away with it at the next level. He's gonna think he can do all that stuff, but I guarantee you he'll be a turnover machine. Especially a guy with his run first mentality ball security will be even a bigger issue. I'm not saying he can't grip a football did I?

 

If you've read my posts, I've already covered EVERY SINGLE REASON why he won't succeed at the next level. And his hand size is a minor reason why he'll struggle.

 

Feel like I'm talking to a bunch of preschoolers.

[K-9]

A MAN FOR HIS SIZE. If you think he's gonna succeed at the NFL level running around like he did in college, you're mistaken. I don't know if you noticed but defenses are a TAD faster at the next level. They're better at stripping the ball. He got away with whatever he wanted but he's not going to get away with it at the next level. He's gonna think he can do all that stuff, but I guarantee you he'll be a turnover machine. Especially a guy with his run first mentality ball security will be even a bigger issue. I'm not saying he can't grip a football did I?

 

If you've read my posts, I've already covered EVERY SINGLE REASON why he won't succeed at the next level. And his hand size is a minor reason why he'll struggle.

 

Feel like I'm talking to a bunch of preschoolers.

 

And Newton may indeed fail at the next level for every one of those OTHER reasons you suggest. He just won't fail because his hands are too small "for a man his size" (whatever that means). They aren't. Period. It's time to get over trying to make a point for the sake of making a point. This point simply can't be made and won't be made by ANYONE else in the football world. But go ahead and think you've discovered something nobody else has. You haven't but since you are like that stubborn child who can't make himself admit a mistake, you dig in even farther. Pitiful.

 

I've read all those other posts of yours. And I purposely chose not to respond as a result. I may be a pre-schooler but I just don't have the heart to argue with the Lenny of TSW. How are your rabbits doing?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DreReed83]

And Newton may indeed fail at the next level for every one of those OTHER reasons you suggest. He just won't fail because his hands are too small "for a man his size" (whatever that means). They aren't. Period. It's time to get over trying to make a point for the sake of making a point. This point simply can't be made and won't be made by ANYONE else in the football world. But go ahead and think you've discovered something nobody else has. You haven't but since you are like that stubborn child who can't make himself admit a mistake, you dig in even farther. Pitiful.

 

I've read all those other posts of yours. And I purposely chose not to respond as a result. I may be a pre-schooler but I just don't have the heart to argue with the Lenny of TSW. How are your rabbits doing?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Did I say he'd fail because of his small hands? I said it's something minor to consider. Stop putting words in my mouth to prove a point. That's just lame.

[8-8 Forever?]

lol. you're crazy.

 

Newton is some weird Young/Russell/Campbell mishmosh. Plus he wants to be a media star, an "icon", in his words. That is not going to play in WNY. Just won't. The media wishes the Bills would just go away. Trade the 3 to the Redskins (who are just dumb enough to take him based on his 9 games of experience- I know, I live in DC), take their 9 this year and their 2 and 3 next year. Package our 1 next year (which will be top 10 for sure) , plus the Skin's 2 and 3 next year (which will be high picks as well), trade up and get Andrew Luck for crying out loud.

 

I love these Bills fans (and I've been one for 40 years) looking for an immediate savior, one that shines a spotlight on their otherwise minor league franchise. Newton is such a risky pick at 3 based on 9 or 10 SEC games in a spread offense. You people are so desperate. Luck is the real deal.. a can't-miss NFL style QB. Worth waiting for, IMO.