bartshan-83 Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 wow - this is so ignorant it is actually funny. Hmm, let's see...4/5 of the members of Dream Theater were scholarship winners to the Berkley School of Music, the keyboardist went the Julliard Music academy at the ripe old age of 11 So WHAT? who CARES? An entire generation doesn't. Maybe to some people the type of music that it requires to get into Julliard is good music, but to some, it sucks. But just because some boring old music professor finds it to be beautiful to listen to doesn't mean it is "good music". Good music is all about opinion. And you wanna know WHY these guys try to look tough, and shrug their shoulders? Because they weren't born with a golden spoon in their mouth and didnt have Berkley school of music on their goals list. What a pompous thing to say, really! They rap about their lives, and some young people can relate. Some just listen because its cool, but then again, some people listen to Julliard type music because it fits the "pompus prick" stereotype. How you can sit here and use that and then say Now they just shout over each other, and shrug their shoulders, while looking pissed off. is really rather funny... Go listen to your music collection from your Berkley grads. I'll go listen to a little Toby Keith, and whoever wants to can listen to some rap. I won't judge. 163268[/snapback] Very nicely put Steve. Could not have said it better.
stevestojan Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 We obviously both like rap, so on that we agree. We also both respect people's right to form their own opinions, so we agree on that as well. My last statement was meant to show that I have a "been there, done that" reaction to people making stereotypical statements. They're neither new or shocking to me. Let it go, as I'm quite sure nobody is convincing anyone that their viewpoint is correct on this. 163273[/snapback] What R.Rich is saying is he hates when people look at him and assume that he loves garbage plates, is obsessed with the NFL draft, likes beer, and was a decent track star....
pdh1 Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 wow - this is so ignorant it is actually funny. Hmm, let's see...4/5 of the members of Dream Theater were scholarship winners to the Berkley School of Music, the keyboardist went the Julliard Music academy at the ripe old age of 11 So WHAT? who CARES? An entire generation doesn't. Maybe to some people the type of music that it requires to get into Julliard is good music, but to some, it sucks. And you wanna know WHY these guys try to look tough, and shrug their shoulders? Because they weren't born with a golden spoon in their mouth and didnt have Berkley school of music on their goals list. What a pompous thing to say, really! They rap about their lives, and some young people can relate. Some just listen because its cool, but then again, some people listen to Julliard type music because it fits the "pompus prick" stereotype. How you can sit here and use that and then say Now they just shout over each other, and shrug their shoulders, while looking pissed off. is really rather funny... Go listen to your music collection from your Berkley grads. I'll go listen to a little Toby Keith, and whoever wants to can listen to some rap. I won't judge. 163268[/snapback] Hey I like Toby Kieth. And it sad the more people DON't care. I mean when I was going to high school and college, people used to talk about who was the best guitarist, best drummer..etc... Or wonder what the meaning was behind albums like "Darkside of the Moon" or the "Lamb lies down on Broadway" Can't image having that same conversation today. sh--, I admire every kind of music but rap. It is perfect symbol of how some people today want what is fast and easy, and don't have any discipline. Mcdonalds may sell the most burgers, but that doesn't mean it the best food in town. Sure, our parents used to hate the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, but their music at least had some type of strong structure, and didn't bastardize other people's work. And they didn't have videos that paint the police as nazi storm-troopers, while the rappers just want chill with the hootchie mommas. PS: you don't need a silver spoon to get into music school, you just have to practice! That sh-- is dope! Word Up!
stevestojan Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Hey I like Toby Kieth. And it sad the more people DON't care. I mean when I was going to high school and college, people used to talk about who was the best guitarist, best drummer..etc... Or wonder what the meaning was behind albums like "Darkside of the Moon" or the "Lamb lies down on Broadway" Can't image having that same conversation today. sh--, I admire every kind of music but rap. It is perfect symbol of how some people today want what is fast and easy, and don't have any discipline. Mcdonalds may sell the most burgers, but that doesn't mean it the best food in town. Sure, our parents used to hate the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, but their music at least had some type of strong structure, and didn't bastardize other people's work. And they didn't have videos that paint the police as nazi storm-troopers, while the rappers just want chill with the hootchie mommas. PS: you don't need a silver spoon to get into music school, you just have to practice! That sh-- is dope! Word Up! 163286[/snapback] yet one more "I don't like it, so it's not good" post. You guys are unreal. Listen, I cannot STAND rap music. If i flip through it, it is as fast as humanly possible. But your comparison is your downfall. "Sure, our parents used to hate the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, but their music at least had some type of strong structure..." You don't think this is the EXACT same thing going on? Not every band back then was Led Zeppelin or the Beatles. There were bands that sucked back then too. Just like now. There are rappers that no doubt suck (even amongst rap fans) and ones that are good. The fact that you cannot see that this is the same cycle as what you're parents thought about "rock&roll", except that you are your parents is shocking.
BillsFanNC Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Go listen to your music collection from your Berkley grads. I'll go listen to a little Toby Keith, and whoever wants to can listen to some rap. I won't judge. 163268[/snapback] I'm not going to get involved in the debate other than to say rap music gives me a headache. Anyway, Steve since you mentioned Toby Keith and I know you are a Hip fan as well, did you know that the Hip song "It Can't be Nashville Every Night" is Gordon Downie's personal :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: to Toby Keith?
Guest Tupac's Mom Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 one of my replies from the other thread to the statement "i like my music to have melody and harmonies....": good for you, you like your music that way, great. a lot of hip-hop has all of that( The Roots for example, are a BAND actually, a full band, guitar, keyboards, bass, drums, horns but its a rap group), just not in the quantities or style that you are used to. just because it is a beat derived music(still containing melodies and harmonies, they are just secondary) doesnt mean its not music. it just doesnt fit the def of music in "your reality" and thats ok, but you cant logically try to state a fact that "rap is not music" its like me saying "the dolphins arent a football team" they are a crappy football team, meaning they are below my standards, and i may not like them, but in reality there is a football team known as the miami dolphins who get paid to play football, and are football players, therefore a team
Guest Tupac's Mom Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 yet one more "I don't like it, so it's not good" post. You guys are unreal. Listen, I cannot STAND rap music. If i flip through it, it is as fast as humanly possible. But your comparison is your downfall. "Sure, our parents used to hate the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, but their music at least had some type of strong structure..." You don't think this is the EXACT same thing going on? Not every band back then was Led Zeppelin or the Beatles. There were bands that sucked back then too. Just like now. There are rappers that no doubt suck (even amongst rap fans) and ones that are good. The fact that you cannot see that this is the same cycle as what you're parents thought about "rock&roll", except that you are your parents is shocking. 163296[/snapback] hahaha, all the old people just got called out
IDBillzFan Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 We obviously both like rap, so on that we agree. We also both respect people's right to form their own opinions, so we agree on that as well. My last statement was meant to show that I have a "been there, done that" reaction to people making stereotypical statements. They're neither new or shocking to me. Let it go, as I'm quite sure nobody is convincing anyone that their viewpoint is correct on this. 163273[/snapback] People who matter don't stereotype. It's the work of a lazy mind. I'm constantly amazed how quick people are to look at another person's actions, and quickly categorize them. People who matter know this is just not true. Except for people who listen to Toby Keith. Now them thar's some rednecks.
Tux of Borg Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 rap = disco Here today, gone tomorrow. The clubs could play monks chanting for all I care. As long as the alcohol is flowing and the girlies are rubbing up on me, who cares!
bartshan-83 Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 People who matter don't stereotype. It's the work of a lazy mind. I'm constantly amazed how quick people are to look at another person's actions, and quickly categorize them. 163318[/snapback] as opposed to people talking about how their life sucks because they missed an opportunity to rape a B word after gunning down a nigga. hmmm? (disclaimer...perhaps what you did falls more under the scope of 'extreme generaliztion', but I think you can see the point.)
pdh1 Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 rap = disco Here today, gone tomorrow. The clubs could play monks chanting for all I care. As long as the alcohol is flowing and the girlies are rubbing up on me, who cares! 163327[/snapback] I like the way you think! I could even put up with Rap music if made the women hot and bothered. Gotta have your priorities straight. Bills 27 Bungles 21
pdh1 Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 one of my replies from the other thread to the statement "i like my music to have melody and harmonies....":good for you, you like your music that way, great. a lot of hip-hop has all of that( The Roots for example, are a BAND actually, a full band, guitar, keyboards, bass, drums, horns but its a rap group), just not in the quantities or style that you are used to. just because it is a beat derived music(still containing melodies and harmonies, they are just secondary) doesnt mean its not music. it just doesnt fit the def of music in "your reality" and thats ok, but you cant logically try to state a fact that "rap is not music" its like me saying "the dolphins arent a football team" they are a crappy football team, meaning they are below my standards, and i may not like them, but in reality there is a football team known as the miami dolphins who get paid to play football, and are football players, therefore a team 163312[/snapback] Can you please tell me the other forms of music were the artists rip off and sample others people's work and call it there own? Also, let me know the other musical genres were the artist shoot and kill each, and also stab each other at awards show? Oh no! It's a STEREOTYPE!
stevestojan Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Can you please tell me the other forms of music were the artists rip off and sample others people's work and call it there own? Also, let me know the other musical genres were the artist shoot and kill each, and also stab each other at awards show? Oh no! It's a STEREOTYPE! 163365[/snapback] What the stabbing has to do with this argument is beyond me. The artists shoot and kill each other because like many PRO FOOTBALL PLAYERS, the fact that they are now rich and famous doesn't negate everything that happened in their life up to that point. Do you feel Football isnt a sport because OJ killed his exwife and a waiter, Ray Lewis killed two people, etc, etc? What did you think? Tupac grew up in the Hamptons and Rap music made him violent? Ok, now that I got that out of the way, you asked: "Can you please tell me the other forms of music were the artists rip off and sample others people's work and call it there own?" You can't be serious... How about EVERY form of music.
Typical TBD Guy Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 rap = disco Here today, gone tomorrow. 163327[/snapback] Faulty logic. Disco lasted how long? A year? Two? Rap music is 20+ years and going strong. IMO, there are some really good rappers out there who even the old people on this board might like. Kanye West, Outkast, and Naz are a few mainstream ones that come to mind. The current problem with rap, however, (like rock music as well) is that MTV is showcasing its genre with some of the worst crap I've ever heard (Ja Rule, 50 Cent, yes even the "great" Snoop Dogg, Fat Joe, so many more), thus only strengthening its negative stereotype to the already skeptical masses. Take punk rock, for example. It's like saying you hate punk rock because you listened to Good Charlotte and you thought they suck. Or heavy metal. It's like saying you hate heavy metal because you know of Papa Roach and he sucks. Or pop music. It's like saying you hate pop because you've listened to Ashlee Simpson and you think she sucks. And so on... Wow, this thread is awful. I don't know why I even clicked on it, let alone contributed to it. Good music is in the ear of the beholder. Even if you enjoy listening to yourself put together a string of consecutive farts together, and you want to call that music, and you want to record your string of farts and send it to Motown for a hot record label...why not?
stevestojan Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Good music is in the ear of the beholder. 163374[/snapback] That's it. That's ALL that needs to be said.
pdh1 Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 You can't be serious... How about EVERY form of music. 163373[/snapback] Sampling and taking the actual recording and looping is WAY different then being influenced by someone's music and playing in the same style. Why don't you pirate a copy of "Friday Night Lights", change the credits and the start and the finish, and then go around and tell everyone what a great filmaker you are?
cåblelady Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 FYI i am a native of Buffalo NY, 34 years old who grew up on HIp Hop/Rap. I am also a 'retired' 15 year Disk Jockey of predominantly Rap and R&B music through the 80's & 90's. 163143[/snapback] Will you marry me?
cashfruit Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 isnt anything with harmony, rhythm and melody considered music? i believe it is, so its music just not your kind of music and 85% isnt for me either. i agree though, rap sucks but in my opinion no music is better then true heart felt hip hop. most people who hate hip hop either hate the people makin the music and/or they cant relate to it. i cant relate to "i wanna blown my own head off" heavy metal or "i got bullied everyday of my life so now im mad" rock and roll like limp biscuit but im not gonna start a thread sayin how much i hate it because its pointless. music is like different types of food, what you love i might hate and what i love (which is the case here) you might hate.
crackur Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Faulty logic. Disco lasted how long? A year? Two? Rap music is 20+ years and going strong. IMO, there are some really good rappers out there who even the old people on this board might like. Kanye West, Outkast, and Naz are a few mainstream ones that come to mind. The current problem with rap, however, (like rock music as well) is that MTV is showcasing its genre with some of the worst crap I've ever heard (Ja Rule, 50 Cent, yes even the "great" Snoop Dogg, Fat Joe, so many more), thus only strengthening its negative stereotype to the already skeptical masses. Take punk rock, for example. It's like saying you hate punk rock because you listened to Good Charlotte and you thought they suck. Or heavy metal. It's like saying you hate heavy metal because you know of Papa Roach and he sucks. Or pop music. It's like saying you hate pop because you've listened to Ashlee Simpson and you think she sucks. And so on... Wow, this thread is awful. I don't know why I even clicked on it, let alone contributed to it. Good music is in the ear of the beholder. Even if you enjoy listening to yourself put together a string of consecutive farts together, and you want to call that music, and you want to record your string of farts and send it to Motown for a hot record label...why not? 163374[/snapback] excellent post!!!!!!!!!!
Guest tim in ak Posted December 17, 2004 Posted December 17, 2004 Not that i give a damn what anyone thinks but the the Roots phrenology, he got game soundtrack by PE and eminmen's the emininem show are three of the best albums i own. Go beat off to your your Toby Keith right wingers national anthem and leave us cool people alone.
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