KD in CA Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Do you know what doo woop is? 162361[/snapback] Yes. It is the only form of "music" ever invented that is actually WORSE than rap.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Neither is country 162485[/snapback] Actually, country is music (sound organized into some kind of cogent whole, and John Cage might have an even more broad argument against that -- ie your fan noise is music, but i digress)... What current country is not is COUNTRY! It is as Hollywood-produced, drug-addled and inauthentic (though I have problems with the term authentic, but here I mean closeness to the subject of country life) as any genre out there. Give me Gillian Welch, Johnny Cash, Loretta Lynn, Dolly, those folks are all real musicians with real stories; you can't discount them.
_BiB_ Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 The last time I said I didn't like Rap I was called a racist. I guess if I didn't care for Rosannes version of the National Anthem, I'm a commie too.
VABills Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Actually, country is music (sound organized into some kind of cogent whole, and John Cage might have an even more broad argument against that -- ie your fan noise is music, but i digress)... What current country is not is COUNTRY! It is as Hollywood-produced, drug-addled and inauthentic (though I have problems with the term authentic, but here I mean closeness to the subject of country life) as any genre out there. Give me Gillian Welch, Johnny Cash, Loretta Lynn, Dolly, those folks are all real musicians with real stories; you can't discount them. 162499[/snapback] I can't stand any of it. New or the "old" stuff. Come on that twangy BS is not country. It is a method to cover up the horrible voices that most of them had.
KD in CA Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 I guess if I didn't care for Rosannes version of the National Anthem, I'm a commie too. 162504[/snapback] No, it just means you hate fat people.
stevestojan Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Actually, country is music (sound organized into some kind of cogent whole, and John Cage might have an even more broad argument against that -- ie your fan noise is music, but i digress)... What current country is not is COUNTRY! It is as Hollywood-produced, drug-addled and inauthentic (though I have problems with the term authentic, but here I mean closeness to the subject of country life) as any genre out there. Give me Gillian Welch, Johnny Cash, Loretta Lynn, Dolly, those folks are all real musicians with real stories; you can't discount them. 162499[/snapback] No, what you mean is, since you're getting old, and country is adding a new youthful flair, that it's not country. Can't you all see what you are turning into? Your parents. It's so obvious and no of you can see that? "What current country is not is COUNTRY!" hahaha...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 The last time I said I didn't like Rap I was called a racist. I guess if I didn't care for Rosannes version of the National Anthem, I'm a commie too. 162504[/snapback] I don't think that's a racist stance at all. It's a case of taste. I think a racist stance would be to say that rap / hip-hop are not a valid form of expression and cannot have any value whatsoever, or that black artists are somehow less capable of making a valid artistic expression. You haven't given that indication. Anyone who would call you a racist on the basis of that statement is a fool.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 No, what you mean is, since you're getting old, and country is adding a new youthful flair, that it's not country. Can't you all see what you are turning into? Your parents. It's so obvious and no of you can see that? "What current country is not is COUNTRY!" hahaha... 162512[/snapback] Please tell me what elements of country and not POP that current country has aside from its practitioners being from the south and an occasional slide guitar and cowboy hat? I think it's moved full-scale into the pop realm, "countrified pop," so to speak. It features few of the qualities of what was originally defined as country music. It would be akin to calling Miles Davis' work in the early 60s swing.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 I can't stand any of it. New or the "old" stuff. Come on that twangy BS is not country. It is a method to cover up the horrible voices that most of them had. 162509[/snapback] Cash? Come on, man, you dig the man in black. You know it. Voice of gold.
stevestojan Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Please tell me what elements of country and not POP that current country has aside from its practitioners being from the south and an occasional slide guitar and cowboy hat? I think it's moved full-scale into the pop realm, "countrified pop," so to speak. It features few of the qualities of what was originally defined as country music. It would be akin to calling Miles Davis' work in the early 60s swing. 162517[/snapback] Ok, then let me put it this way. Label it what you want. Call it "Farglogblarseynoss" Music, whatever is on the Country stations, that's what I like. I'm not asking you to like it, or to call it music. I like it.
VABills Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Cash? Come on, man, you dig the man in black. You know it. Voice of gold. 162522[/snapback] Nope. In fact, the priest at my church is a big Cash fan. He and I discuss on occassion and he gets a little annoyed when I say that isn't music and Johnny is just a dog howling as far as I am concerned. Seriously, most country and most of the stars you mentioned have modified their song voice to seriously cover up flaws in their ability. Cher does the same thing and in fact has gone to electronic controls over her voice track, as she can't control it anymore. It's like Jim Morrison. Decent music tracks from the Doors but Morrison was a horrible singer. Too bad, because they could have been greater than they were.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Call it "Farglogblarseynoss" Music 162531[/snapback] That has a certain ring to it
Dante Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 I can't stand any of it. New or the "old" stuff. Come on that twangy BS is not country. It is a method to cover up the horrible voices that most of them had. 162509[/snapback] I agree with you on the old stuff. Pretty lame stuff. Horrible voices certainly cant be said about todays country though. Some of the women singers have beautiful voices(among other things). I'll take them over the annoying high pitched squaking Christina Agulara(sp) or that other french chick from Quebec.
_BiB_ Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Nope. In fact, the priest at my church is a big Cash fan. He and I discuss on occassion and he gets a little annoyed when I say that isn't music and Johnny is just a dog howling as far as I am concerned. Seriously, most country and most of the stars you mentioned have modified their song voice to seriously cover up flaws in their ability. Cher does the same thing and in fact has gone to electronic controls over her voice track, as she can't control it anymore. It's like Jim Morrison. Decent music tracks from the Doors but Morrison was a horrible singer. Too bad, because they could have been greater than they were. 162533[/snapback] Not exactly country, more of something like "Bluegrass Fusion"- I stumbled across a band called Nickle Creek. If you ever get a chance, give them a listen. Very talented and creative.
pm73 Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 162315[/snapback] rap is not music??? what a stupid statement.
Guest Guest Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 OK OK - I do not like **** music... It is all so contrived and samey to me. And I hate they way all **** throw out love to **** and **** and every other dead artist - it's always so fake to me. They were on the whole such obnoxious people that many people wanted to shoot anyway that giving them props all the time is pathetic. The other things with **** is we keep having to hear all the stevestojantty tracks he laid down but weren't good enough to release back in the day - and are only good enough now because he's dead. I saw a documentary about his Mom who said that she's just thankful that she was left with so much material to remember her son with - and I thought - BOLLOCKS, she's happy he left all that material so she can make money out of it. Similarly I was interested in the music scene that bred the **** genre, so I read a load of books about ****, ****, ****, the growth of ****, ****, **** - you name it. The thing that strikes me about all of it is that in the first instance the music they create is generally really decent, heartfelt music. As they all progress they turn into whinging fame monkeys who shoehorn in lyrics about **** and **** just to be cool and their music is shoddy imitations of their earlier work. **** is crap if you ask me. Give me some good, honest ****, and I'm fine. But ****??? forget about it. That said, new groups like **** are entertaining, so too are **** who seem to have eschewed some of the elements of **** that I detest. 162377[/snapback] I put in the **** myself. That being said, read the above diatribe again. You could substitute any white male or female artist over the last 40 years for **** and say THE EXACT SAME THING! For example, insert "Nirvana" and "Grunge". For another example, throw in any of those has-been baby-boomer rockers who haven't record anything relevant in 20 years and who just won't go away. Intersesting quote: "They were on the whole such obnoxious people that many people wanted to shoot anyway that giving them props all the time is pathetic." Wasn't the exact same thing said about the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, et al? Honestly, some of you guys on the board think of yourself as "hip", but instead you all sound like whiny parents.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Nope. In fact, the priest at my church is a big Cash fan. He and I discuss on occassion and he gets a little annoyed when I say that isn't music and Johnny is just a dog howling as far as I am concerned. Seriously, most country and most of the stars you mentioned have modified their song voice to seriously cover up flaws in their ability. Cher does the same thing and in fact has gone to electronic controls over her voice track, as she can't control it anymore. It's like Jim Morrison. Decent music tracks from the Doors but Morrison was a horrible singer. Too bad, because they could have been greater than they were. 162533[/snapback] I think he rightly gets a little annoyed, because you are denying a certain validity to the music he enjoys. I don't think most of the stars I've mentioned cover up their voices; Cash didn't. Certainly Welch, Parton, Lynn don't (I know Welch and Lynn do all their recordings with analog gear -- not very easy to auto-tune or roboticize it without digital). Basically this software tends to over-perfect a voice, strip it of life, and I just don't hear it in the recordings of the artists I've listed. And I've been listening to this stuff for awhile. Cher used the auto-tune effect on overdrive to great success. She sings, but like a 60 year old lady in a body patched together by plastic surgery to look (kind of) 30s. Anyway, that was a trick for that one single ("Believe"); I am sure that she uses auto-tune regularly -- it has become a pop standard. I think to deny the aging process of the voice as one that is interesting to hear is just a bias imposed by the music industry that should be broken. If it is not hip and new, it ain't worth it. Whereas to me, the change over time of Tom Waits', Johnny Cash's voices is an amazing process to listen to. But again, this is my life. I've learned (and I think punk was my entry-point) that a great voice does not need to be a "musically perfect" voice. If it were, we'd all be listening to Andy Williams and Luther Vandross all the time. People like something with a little grit now and then.
Guest Guest_Coach_Tuesday Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 I think anyone who is looking for something musical in hip-hop would be well served to check out some MF Doom / Madvillain, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and the myriad projects of Del Tha Funkee Homosapien (Deltron). Also there are some pretty amazing instrumental hip-hop artists like DJ Shadow and Prefuse 73 who have a real knowledge of musical history and do some pretty amazing things (not all scratching and cutting either). 162490[/snapback] Great list, RDB. Prefuse 73 is one of my favs - but he's technically trip-hop, which I love. If you like him, check out the Boards of Canada and DJ Krush (the former are instrumental). BTW - hip hop is a cultural movement. If you dismiss it as "uneducated and unmusical" you're missing out on a very important cultural phenomena, and it demonstrates YOUR OWN ignorance. It's one thing to dismiss what you see on MTV - most of that stuff is commercialized garbage. But if you actually listen to the lyrics of good hip hop music you'll be surprised how intelligent it is.
_BiB_ Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 Honestly, some of you guys on the board think of yourself as "hip", but instead you all sound like whiny parents. I'm actually closer to a whiny grandparent.
VABills Posted December 16, 2004 Posted December 16, 2004 I think he rightly gets a little annoyed, because you are denying a certain validity to the music he enjoys. I don't think most of the stars I've mentioned cover up their voices; Cash didn't. Certainly Welch, Parton, Lynn don't (I know Welch and Lynn do all their recordings with analog gear -- not very easy to auto-tune or roboticize it without digital). Basically this software tends to over-perfect a voice, strip it of life, and I just don't hear it in the recordings of the artists I've listed. And I've been listening to this stuff for awhile. Cher used the auto-tune effect on overdrive to great success. She sings, but like a 60 year old lady in a body patched together by plastic surgery to look (kind of) 30s. Anyway, that was a trick for that one single ("Believe"); I am sure that she uses auto-tune regularly -- it has become a pop standard. I think to deny the aging process of the voice as one that is interesting to hear is just a bias imposed by the music industry that should be broken. If it is not hip and new, it ain't worth it. Whereas to me, the change over time of Tom Waits', Johnny Cash's voices is an amazing process to listen to. But again, this is my life. I've learned (and I think punk was my entry-point) that a great voice does not need to be a "musically perfect" voice. If it were, we'd all be listening to Andy Williams and Luther Vandross all the time. People like something with a little grit now and then. 162557[/snapback] Didn't say they electronically enhanced them. They purposely "twanged" there voice manually to get that "country" music voice sound. Very contrived and IMHO covered a lack of ability. I personally believe this is true of most singers regardless of genre. I also believe there are some people that sing great but make bad music. Jewel comes to mind here. Others like Fleetwood Mac made great music, while Stevie Nicks wasn't the best singer in the world.
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