OT Rap is not Music!!

[RuntheDamnBall]

Didn't say they electronically enhanced them.  They purposely "twanged" there voice manually to get that "country" music voice sound.  Very contrived and IMHO covered a lack of ability.  I personally believe this is true of most singers regardless of genre. 

 

I also believe there are some people that sing great but make bad music.  Jewel comes to mind here.  Others like Fleetwood Mac made great music, while Stevie Nicks wasn't the best singer in the world.

162571[/snapback]

Hmm, when you said singers "modified their song voice" and then cited Cher I leapt to conclusions. Apologies.

 

I don't think it's so much covering a lack of ability to adopt twang, as much as adopting one's own singing voice or persona. I return to Neil Young a lot, but he had something singular vocally that suited his songs well, even if his is not a "great voice" so to speak. His music would have suffered if vocalize by someone like Rod Stewart.

 

I think the definition of a good singer is wide open for debate, where it now includes phrasing (which Dylan did masterfully despite his never having a 'touch' to lose vocally), the persona of the singer, intensity, etc in addition to all the classic qualities we tend to judge. I mean this in the way that I like that Joe Strummer sounds like Cookie Monster to me sometimes.

[flomoe]

I can''t stand rap or rapping. Especially at this time of year, rapping is really difficult. Sometimes around Birthdays, I find rapping to be difficult but tolerable. For some reason, I just can't get my corners to work and my rapping sucks. I usually go somewhere that will rap for you instead of struggling with rapping by myself.

 

I just noticed the my "W" isn't working!!

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

Yes.  It is the only form of "music" ever invented that is actually WORSE than rap.

162496[/snapback]

First of all, it's doo WOP, not doo WOOP...and second of all, it is 100x better than rap because it actually relies on quality singing voices merging together as opposed to people talking about how their life sucks because they missed an opportunity to rape a B word after gunning down a nigga.

[Surfmeister]

You are 100% correct. It is a form of psy-ops called Agit-Prop. Feel free to look it up.

[Nervous Guy]

You are 100% correct.  It is a form of psy-ops called Agit-Prop.  Feel free to look it up.

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oh...right....Agitprop is short for отдел агитации и пропаганды.

[The Poojer]

careful, everyone has thier own tastes, personally i am not a huge fan, but there are some acts out there that i can stomach, outkast etc...but to say it isn't music. is speed metal music? some would argue no. is country music? in my eyes no f-in way, but if someone wants to listen to those rock and roll wanna be's, then that is thier choice.

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[pdh1]

careful, everyone has thier own tastes, personally i am not a huge fan, but there are some acts out there that i can stomach, outkast etc...but to say it isn't music.  is speed metal music? some would argue no.  is country music?  in my eyes no f-in way, but if someone wants to listen to those rock and roll wanna be's, then that is thier choice.

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Speed Metal not music? Dude, I would like to see any of the "hip-hop" stars try to play the guitar like John P. of Dream Theater or Marty Freedman of Megadeath, or play the drums like Vinnie Paul of Pantera. I alot of what people would call "speed metal" is based on time changes and chord progressions from classical music. Like Yngwie Malmsteen 's rising force.

[Alaska Darin]

Speed Metal not music? Dude, I would like to see any of the "hip-hop" stars try to play the guitar like John P. of Dream Theater or Marty Freedman of Megadeath, or play the drums like Vinnie Paul of Pantera. I alot of what people would call "speed metal" is based on time changes and chord progressions from classical music. Like  Yngwie Malmsteen 's rising force.

162911[/snapback]

That's enough facts, pahhdnah. Now where's my drum machine and computer? I need to lay down some beats and steal some samples to talk over.

[stevestojan]

Speed Metal not music? Dude, I would like to see any of the "hip-hop" stars try to play the guitar like John P. of Dream Theater or Marty Freedman of Megadeath, or play the drums like Vinnie Paul of Pantera. I alot of what people would call "speed metal" is based on time changes and chord progressions from classical music. Like  Yngwie Malmsteen 's rising force.

162911[/snapback]

 

Yeah, and I'd like to see some of your speed metal artists try to make up a rap song on their feet, and make is somewhat coherant..

 

I hate rap, so I'm not defending it.

 

What I am saying is that if you DO appreciate ANY kind of music, you should respects everyone else's choice to appreciate their own.

[nobody]

All I want to know is why is it called the Rock n Roll hall of fame when they induct rab artists, r & b artists, etc.

[Guest BetaTesta]

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Rock 'n Roll is not music!!!

[pdh1]

Yeah, and I'd like to see some of your speed metal artists try to make up a rap song on their feet, and make is somewhat coherant..

 

I hate rap, so I'm not defending it.

 

What I am saying is that if you DO appreciate ANY kind of music, you should respects everyone else's choice to appreciate their own.

162915[/snapback]

 

Hmm, let's see...4/5 of the members of Dream Theater were scholarship winners to the Berkley School of Music, the keyboardist went the Julliard Music academy at the ripe old age of 11...

 

Yes! Coming up with a rap on your feet is comparable.

 

And get things straight, most of it is NOT coherent, at least not in Rap music today. In the early days they tried to synchronize the phrases, and actually did dance moves. Now they just shout over each other, and shrug their shoulders, while looking pissed off.

[afrodziak]

OK OK - I do not like Gangsta Rap music... It is all so contrived and samey to me. And I hate they way all Gansta's throw out love to Tupac and Biggie and every other dead artist - it's always so fake to me. They were on the whole such obnoxious people that many people wanted to shoot anyway that giving them props all the time is pathetic. The other things with Tupac is we keep having to hear all the stevestojantty tracks he laid down but weren't good enough to release back in the day - and are only good enough now because he's dead. I saw a documentary about him Mom who said that she's just thankful that she was left with so much material to remember her son with - and I thought - BOLLOCKS, she's happy he left all that material so she can make money out of it.

 

Similarly I was interested in the music scene that bred the Gangsta rap genre, so I read a load of books about Suge Knight, Tupac, NWA, the growth of gangsta rap, Dr Dre, Eminem - you name it. The thing that strikes me about all of it is that in the first instance the music they create is generally really decent, heartfelt music. As they all progress they turn into whinging fame monkeys who shoehorn in lyrics about murder and 'gats' just to be cool and their music is shoddy imitations of their earlier work.

 

Rap is crap if you ask me. Give me some good, honest Hip Hop, and I'm fine. But rap??? forget about it.

 

That said, new groups like Black Eyed Peas are entertaining, so too are Outkast who seem to have eschewed some of the elements of rap that I detest.

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FYI i am a native of Buffalo NY, 34 years old who grew up on HIp Hop/Rap. I am also a 'retired' 15 year Disk Jockey of predominantly Rap and R&B music through the 80's & 90's.

 

With that said i found it interesting that people were posting about hating rap on the Bills board so i thought i would give it a read - mainly expecting to not agree with much of what people were saying...but secure in the knowledge that rap is and has been for some years now the most popular form of music in the US and abroad - so how many people can REALLY hate it, proportionately speaking?

 

Anyway, i was surprised to find that what Nick in England said was largely true to my way of thinking as it pertains to Gangsta rap. I do like a couple of the artists that would go under that label (50 Cent, Snoop Dogg & Eminem leap to mind, im sure there are one or two others) but i much prefer a lot of the other artists, some who have actually got things to say and others who are just fun to listen to, have nice beats, distinct flows or just witty enough to catch my attention with their rhyme style... (NAS, Jay Z, Common, Mos Def, Fabolous, Kanye West come to mind from the 'new school').

 

My point (one of them) is that these days rap music is so pervasive (i never really knew when the distinction between rap and hip hop became rap=gangsta hip hop=everything else, but to my way of thinking the two terms are basically interchangeable) these days and there is so much cross over between the genres, particularly with rap and other genres, that it is harder and harder to even tell where the lines are between rap/r&b/jazz/blues/even some country lately...i think that is a big part of what has helped rap music to become so popular and have such great longevity so far.

[bartshan-83]

yaaaaaawn. The amount of ignorance/stereotyping here is overwhelming. It's a good thing there are such experts present to define what IS and IS NOT music. Maybe these people can expand their talent into other realms of distinction. Such as what IS and IS NOT a sport, for example. Then you all could compile a list for the rest of us to print out and study. I mean, I just found out that I have been listening to fake music, I would certainly like to know what other 'not real' activities I have been participating in.

[R. Rich]

yaaaaaawn. The amount of ignorance/stereotyping here is overwhelming. It's a good thing there are such experts present to define what IS and IS NOT music. Maybe these people can expand their talent into other realms of distinction. Such as what IS and IS NOT a sport, for example. Then you all could compile a list for the rest of us to print out and study. I mean, I just found out that I have been listening to fake music, I would certainly like to know what other 'not real' activities I have been participating in.

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I agree with very little of what is said in this thread against rap, because most of it is due to broad generalizations being made by those who say it (all rap is gangsta rap, no rappers have any actual musical ability, all rappers use only drum machines and sample old songs, etc.). I do, however, agree that they have every right to feel as strongly as they do, whether I agree with it or not.

[bartshan-83]

I do, however, agree that they have every right to feel as strongly as they do, whether I agree with it or not.

163247[/snapback]

I don't contest that right whatsoever. People can think whatever they want. It is disapointing to me though when it appears that, like you said, they are basing their opinions on general stereotypes.

[R. Rich]

I don't contest that right whatsoever. People can think whatever they want. It is disapointing to me though when it appears that, like you said, they are basing their opinions on general stereotypes.

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You'll have to forgive me, but I'm a bit used to opinions being formed based on stereotypes.

[bartshan-83]

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm a bit used to opinions being formed based on stereotypes.

163255[/snapback]

OK, now I'm a little confused. Are we agreeing with each other or arguing?

[stevestojan]

Hmm, let's see...4/5 of the members of Dream Theater were scholarship winners to the Berkley School of Music, the keyboardist went the Julliard Music academy at the ripe old age of 11...

 

Yes! Coming up with a rap on your feet is comparable.

 

And get things straight, most of it is NOT coherent, at least not in Rap music today. In the early days they tried to synchronize the phrases, and actually did dance moves. Now they just shout over each other, and shrug their shoulders, while looking pissed off.

163015[/snapback]

 

wow - this is so ignorant it is actually funny.

 

Hmm, let's see...4/5 of the members of Dream Theater were scholarship winners to the Berkley School of Music, the keyboardist went the Julliard Music academy at the ripe old age of 11

 

So WHAT? who CARES? An entire generation doesn't. Maybe to some people the type of music that it requires to get into Julliard is good music, but to some, it sucks. But just because some boring old music professor finds it to be beautiful to listen to doesn't mean it is "good music". Good music is all about opinion.

 

And you wanna know WHY these guys try to look tough, and shrug their shoulders? Because they weren't born with a golden spoon in their mouth and didnt have Berkley school of music on their goals list. What a pompous thing to say, really! They rap about their lives, and some young people can relate. Some just listen because its cool, but then again, some people listen to Julliard type music because it fits the "pompus prick" stereotype.

 

How you can sit here and use that and then say

 

Now they just shout over each other, and shrug their shoulders, while looking pissed off.

 

is really rather funny...

 

Go listen to your music collection from your Berkley grads. I'll go listen to a little Toby Keith, and whoever wants to can listen to some rap. I won't judge.

[R. Rich]

OK, now I'm a little confused. Are we agreeing with each other or arguing?  

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We obviously both like rap, so on that we agree. We also both respect people's right to form their own opinions, so we agree on that as well. My last statement was meant to show that I have a "been there, done that" reaction to people making stereotypical statements. They're neither new or shocking to me. Let it go, as I'm quite sure nobody is convincing anyone that their viewpoint is correct on this.