Jim in Anchorage Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 lol...the ironic thing would be if Walt finally gets around to that, but it's like episode 8 of the 2nd mini-season so I can't even enjoy his handy work! Absolutely...Walt has hit new heights of selfishness with regard to Jesse. If he was willing to allow Jesse to run his own, separate cook, then clearly Walt can replace Jesse with Lance without too much of a problem. I keep going back to Walt's very intense comment to Jesse about how he's in the "empire business". Well, when you think about the sort of environment that exists in an empire, it doesn't bode well for Jesse to do something that would like like AWOL status to Walt. Walt does seem to losing it. Mike had cash and a passport. His plan seemed pretty clear. Why kill him?
ajzepp Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Walt does seem to losing it. Mike had cash and a passport. His plan seemed pretty clear. Why kill him? I agree. Especially when not five mins after he took the shot, he came up with the notion that he could just get the names from Lydia. That's one aspect of the scene I really thought was important, because it was indicative of Walt's propensity to act without thinking now, whereas before that was, well, unthinkable. Next week won't be the same without Mike around, that's for sure.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 An interesting thought on Walt's self-described "empire business" - there hasn't been an empire in world history (ie. any organization that aimed at boundless expansion) that didn't eventually fold under its own weight.
Jim in Anchorage Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 An interesting thought on Walt's self-described "empire business" - there hasn't been an empire in world history (ie. any organization that aimed at boundless expansion) that didn't eventually fold under its own weight. McDonald's?
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 McDonald's? Ah! And they sell Classic Coke.
Jim in Anchorage Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Ah! And they sell Classic Coke. I would like a tepid off brand cola
The Poojer Posted August 30, 2012 Author Posted August 30, 2012 I know people are speculating on who will off Walt/Heisenburg...keep in mind the season just got to his 51st birthday...we already know he makes it to his 52nd...like someone said...this show is about Walt...not the other characters... much like the sopranos, I think Walter is standing at the very end of the show.
McBeane Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 I just can't understand the people that say they don't like Walt. I guess if you immerse yourself as one of the characters in the show then maybe, but I think his transformation has made this show great. I can't simply hate any of the characters for their personalities, as it all adds to the show and works brilliantly together. If Walt was your friend, then sure, I can see not liking him, but he is an incredibly deep character who has done the "Mr. Chips to Scarface" transition perfectly. This also kinda goes along with how some people say that Mike should have killed Walt when he had the chance. Well, if that did happen, there goes the show. Again, maybe I don't immerse myself totally into the show and only look at it as a show. Maybe someone can help me understand the other viewpoint on this?
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 I just can't understand the people that say they don't like Walt. I guess if you immerse yourself as one of the characters in the show then maybe, but I think his transformation has made this show great. I can't simply hate any of the characters for their personalities, as it all adds to the show and works brilliantly together. If Walt was your friend, then sure, I can see not liking him, but he is an incredibly deep character who has done the "Mr. Chips to Scarface" transition perfectly. This also kinda goes along with how some people say that Mike should have killed Walt when he had the chance. Well, if that did happen, there goes the show. Again, maybe I don't immerse myself totally into the show and only look at it as a show. Maybe someone can help me understand the other viewpoint on this. It's about narrative. It's obvious enough that Mike can't have killed Walt in that moment. It would have ruined the show. But it's the perpetual responsibility of the writers, producers, directors and actors to form a cogent narrative. That is, every action means something and every action makes sense. If we take it as a rule (and we have) that Mike can't kill Walt 9 episodes before the show ends, then they can't write a moment where he has the perfect means, motive and opportunity to do so. The man was wounded, but not so much so that he couldn't have lifted a gun and pulled the trigger. After all, he managed to crawl away from the car.
Buftex Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Oh I will enjoy it for sure. And yes Walt is getting irritating. When he kept going on about the new cook that he and Jeese where going to do, even though Jeese had made it as plain as day he wanted out, I was mentally screaming HAVE YOU HEARD A WORD JEESE HAS BEEN SAYING TO YOU? Notice too, it seems that Walt, all along (almost since the Mike character was introduced) just begging to be recognized by Mike as some criminal genious...but Mike, right up to till the end, would never do that.. Conversely... Jesse, was viewed as a 'low-life tweaker" by Gus, Mike, etc...but somehow, Jesse managed to earn the respect and loyalty from Mike that Walt was always trying so hard to get...way back (can't remember all the specifics now) but there was that scene where Walt meets Mike in some bar, and proposes that they both team-up to kill Gus...Walt tries to appeal to Mikes' commonality with him...he is met with a few fists to the face, and, if i recall, a kick in the ribs for good measure. Jesse has much more "street cred" than Walt can ever have, and Walt just can't understand that. Think about it...Walt is sort of in denial about "losing" Jesse, because, up to that point, Jesse has kind of served the role of Walt's son in his alternate criminal universe (the "bearded Spock" universe of Heizenberg)...he can't share his criminal life with his real son (Walt Jr), so seeing Jesse develop a sort of father/mentor-son/mentee relationship with Mike, despite all they have been through together (Walt & Jesse) has to kill Walt. What Walt doesn't understand, or get, is that Mike never tries to out and out deceive Jesse, or trick him into being loyal. What is really amazing about this show is how focused and consistent it has always been on deconstructing Walter White. How many scenes have there been, over the years (I can recall three) where Jesse just tells Walter "I am done with you". Walter always counters with some promise of money, and Jesse always comes back, making it clear that it is about more than just money to him. Loved when he walked out on Walt last Sunday, telling him to keep his 5million dollars...discontinuing their working relationship was more important to him than money. Jesse is always looking for a father figure type, and Walt wants to be that father figure....but, in the end, as desperate as he is, even Jesse realizes what a POS Walt is. Walt is a selfish, and self-centered, and always has been..even before he went full-on Heizenberg. Difference is, Walt used to have a moral struggle with dicking people over (but he always did it in the end), but now he just doesn't care. Jesse (and his kids) may be the only people Walt has any noble feelings toward...if Walt can be "saved", Jesse is the key. I don't think it happens though. Edited August 30, 2012 by Buftex
PromoTheRobot Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 There is still an untold back story on Walt that I keep expecting Gilligan to reveal. What forced Walt out of Grey Matter? Did it have anything to do with his leaving (forced or not) from Sandia labs? I have a hunch that Grey Matter will be popping up some more. PTR
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 There is still an untold back story on Walt that I keep expecting Gilligan to reveal. What forced Walt out of Grey Matter? Did it have anything to do with his leaving (forced or not) from Sandia labs? I have a hunch that Grey Matter will be popping up some more. PTR I always figured it was a love triangle thing.
ajzepp Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Ah! And they sell Classic Coke. I know people are speculating on who will off Walt/Heisenburg...keep in mind the season just got to his 51st birthday...we already know he makes it to his 52nd...like someone said...this show is about Walt...not the other characters... much like the sopranos, I think Walter is standing at the very end of the show. So Walt is going to get killed and then resurrect? I don't get it.
HopsGuy Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 I always figured it was a love triangle thing. There was a scene where Gretchen had figured out that Walt had told Skylar that he had received lots of money from Gretchen & Elliot. She demanded that she not be part of whatever lies he was telling his wife. Then she brought up an instant where while they (Gretchen & Walt) were still dating and were at her parents home and there was a change in their relationship that led to its undoing - something along the lines of "I still don't know what happened at my parents' house..." After Walt told Jesse about his Gray Matter experience, that plot-line MUST be explained by the end of the series.
McBeane Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 It's about narrative. It's obvious enough that Mike can't have killed Walt in that moment. It would have ruined the show. But it's the perpetual responsibility of the writers, producers, directors and actors to form a cogent narrative. That is, every action means something and every action makes sense. If we take it as a rule (and we have) that Mike can't kill Walt 9 episodes before the show ends, then they can't write a moment where he has the perfect means, motive and opportunity to do so. The man was wounded, but not so much so that he couldn't have lifted a gun and pulled the trigger. After all, he managed to crawl away from the car. That does help me understand it a little better. Thanks Sage! There was a scene where Gretchen had figured out that Walt had told Skylar that he had received lots of money from Gretchen & Elliot. She demanded that she not be part of whatever lies he was telling his wife. Then she brought up an instant where while they (Gretchen & Walt) were still dating and were at her parents home and there was a change in their relationship that led to its undoing - something along the lines of "I still don't know what happened at my parents' house..." After Walt told Jesse about his Gray Matter experience, that plot-line MUST be explained by the end of the series. That scene provided fantastic insight into why Walt is the way he is. That single scene made the entire struggle to obtain the power he now has make sense. He is a bitter, bitter man that will not stop for anyone or anything to get what he wants. I too am very interested to find out more about the whole Gray Matter situation and what went down. God I love this show
Jim in Anchorage Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 There is still an untold back story on Walt that I keep expecting Gilligan to reveal. What forced Walt out of Grey Matter? Did it have anything to do with his leaving (forced or not) from Sandia labs? I have a hunch that Grey Matter will be popping up some more. PTR It was explained. He took a $5000 buy out.
McBeane Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 It was explained. He took a $5000 buy out. I think what he meant was that we never found out exactly what happened. All Walt said was that there was a stupid disagreement or something of the sort. Sure we know he took $5,000 but what led up to that? Also, was it really only pride that forced Walt to decline the money from Elliott or was he still holding on to whatever transpired to lead up to the buyout? Lots of questions, IMO.
HopsGuy Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I think what he meant was that we never found out exactly what happened. All Walt said was that there was a stupid disagreement or something of the sort. Sure we know he took $5,000 but what led up to that? Also, was it really only pride that forced Walt to decline the money from Elliott or was he still holding on to whatever transpired to lead up to the buyout? Lots of questions, IMO. Definitely. He took at buyout for $5k, meaning he felt the company (which had "a few patents") was valued at $15k. It's really strange for them to put a price on something like that. They had nothing but patents. Wouldn't you just want to have some sort of small claim on that? Why not take a licensing deal for future work? Something must have happened at Gretchen's parents' house that made him just want out. That's the story I hope they explore. This is ultimately the motivation that make Walt want to be in the "empire business".
Jim in Anchorage Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I think what he meant was that we never found out exactly what happened. All Walt said was that there was a stupid disagreement or something of the sort. Sure we know he took $5,000 but what led up to that? Also, was it really only pride that forced Walt to decline the money from Elliott or was he still holding on to whatever transpired to lead up to the buyout? Lots of questions, IMO. No it was clear. he told Jesse he took the money because he felt graymatter was going nowhere. He was not "forced" out, he bailed out and is very bitter about it.
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