UConn James Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Which is what makes this such a brilliant show when you stop and consider that..............the bad guy won! Walt's do-gooder list: --murder of several people --manufacture of a drug that ruins countless lives --poisoning a child --watching a young woman choke to death --screwing a guy out of his business --endangering the lives of his family And that's just off the top of my head. Much like The Sopranos, the writers have done a wonderful job making us feel deep affinity for a reprehensible human being. Gilligan touched on this toward the conclusion of that NPR "Fresh Air with Teri Gross" interview from a while back that I mentioned before. How he grapples with morality while writing characters. He said he's basically an agnostic/leaning atheist and that there's something quite void about it, that since he believes we'll never know if there is a God/that there's probably not a God, the basis for morality is gone. People can just do what they want and there's no cosmic/forever consequence. There's no spoilers there. He does believe in a generalized morality --- that there should be consequences from bad guys, but that this isn't always the case in reality. Mum was the word on what awaits Walt from the writers' desired direction. There is still a very heavy onus on screenwriters in Hollywood that the bad guys ultimately have to pay for their crimes. Otherwise, a lot of the time, the audience walks away unsatisfied or uneasy about a film. That unwritten code among the studios has obviously laxed from where it stood in the '50s and such, but not as much as one might think. BB is one of a relative few that could get away with the bad guy not facing much or any ultimate consequences. "No Country For Old Men" and the Anton Chigur(?) character is another --- and that was just an absolutely brilliant film. Chillingly dark, but brilliant.
ajzepp Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 here's part of a Q&A with Vince Gilligan where he echo's exactly what you said... That's really cool, cause now it's like we'll get two finales to the show...assuming whatever direction he goes in for the last season is something that stirs up a bunch of sheeaat just like what went down up to this point. It's just funny, cause most shows' finales seem to really fall short of expectations, but this one actually exceeded them, IMO. Honestly, the Gus death scene was one of the most effective ever...it was carried out perfectly. I'm just thankful to you guys for getting me to watch this show to begin with! It's been an amazing ride! "No Country For Old Men" and the Anton Chigur(?) character is another --- and that was just an absolutely brilliant film. Chillingly dark, but brilliant. Heads or tails, FRIEND-O
JLO Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 WOW I mean... WOW! Gus adjusting his tie as he crumples to the ground... And the revelation that Walt was two moves ahead of everybody for the last two episodes, when we all thought he was just in panic mode...but how far has he sunk as a person? Wow. If you pause it as soon as Gus drops, you can see a dismembered leg on the floor inside the room
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 My friend and I talked about the season finale and more in our chat wrap yesterday. http://www.entertainment-bureau.com/the-entertainment-bureau-chat-wrap-1015/926 I've got a longer feature in the works as well, which I'll link to when published.
The Poojer Posted October 15, 2011 Author Posted October 15, 2011 good discussion and it seems to parallel with whats been said here.....truly a great season finale....i skipped over the modern family part as i don't watch that... My friend and I talked about the season finale and more in our chat wrap yesterday. http://www.entertainment-bureau.com/the-entertainment-bureau-chat-wrap-1015/926 I've got a longer feature in the works as well, which I'll link to when published.
Buftex Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Not to dredge up an old thread, off-season, but I just found this clip I had never seen before, while looking for something else on the youtube! Got a chuckle out of it!
The Poojer Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Speaking of breaking bad...I just saw the 'Mike' actor on another show, sitcom I think...hope that doesn't mean he's not coming back to bb
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Speaking of breaking bad...I just saw the 'Mike' actor on another show, sitcom I think...hope that doesn't mean he's not coming back to bb I saw him on a promo for Two and a Half Men, I think. Don't watch the show so I can't really speak as to whether he'll be a main character. I can't fathom him not returning for the final season of BB.
The Poojer Posted November 24, 2011 Author Posted November 24, 2011 who knows....he was an extension of gus' character... I saw him on a promo for Two and a Half Men, I think. Don't watch the show so I can't really speak as to whether he'll be a main character. I can't fathom him not returning for the final season of BB.
UConn James Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 I saw him on a promo for Two and a Half Men, I think. Don't watch the show so I can't really speak as to whether he'll be a main character. I can't fathom him not returning for the final season of BB. He played a pawn broker. Not a major character. For a guy who's mostly in dramas, he had pretty good delivery.
meazza Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) I started watching this show Friday and planned to watch one episode a day. I got hooked and just finished season 4. !@#$ing Epic That being said I enjoyed the little Scarface reunion. Poor Manny has no luck The show could have ended at season 4 and I would have said "best show ever". Let's hope they bring back this level of brilliance for one more season. Edited November 24, 2011 by meazza
meazza Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Breaking Bad' creator has no idea how show will end But before he can head back to Hollywood, there’s the little issue of Walter White. Not since Tony Soprano has an irredeemable killer been so, well, identifiable. And we all know just how “The Sopranos” ended: by irritating most of its core fans with a non-ending.
ajzepp Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Breaking Bad' creator has no idea how show will end I wish I wouldn't have just read that, lol. I honestly don't understand why these writers admit this kind of thing. For someone like me, it just takes away from the show. I remember an interview with the Lost writers back before I had ever even seen an episode of that show. They admitted that they only had conceived about two seasons worth of material in their heads. Then it became a huge hit and they had to come up with some ideas quick. Well, although I LOVED the finale, I hated almost all of the final season, and if I'm being honest, it's still basically theories as far as some of what was going on in a few of the latter seasons, not just S6. But to me, the finale showed to me that it wasn't the REASONS behind everything that were what I should be focusing on, but it was the common experiences that the castaways shared and the relationships that they developed along the way. That allowed me to let go of a lot of the stuff that really had no explanation. (And I know a lot of you guys are passionate Lost fans, so I'm not trying to dredge up a whole debate again...lol) To me, this is Gilligan basically saying he's gonna find a way to pull something out of his arse for the final season of Breaking Bad, and that is just not acceptable to me. This is why I rarely watch scripted television, in fact. With movies, you don't often hear a director or writer saying half way through the production, "you know what? I'll be damned, but I have no idea where to go from here...." Some movies are good, some are bad, but at least they have a fully contrived story arc in mind before they shoot the first scene. Oh, and this writer is clueless...anyone who takes the time to really pay attention to the Sopranos finale will have NO QUESTION about Tony's fate. I know this because I was one of the people who DIDN'T pay attention when I initially watched it, and so I was left thinking, "wtf?" But those who paid attention to it laid it out perfectly, and when I went back and watched it again to see exactly what ques and clues were there, it all made perfect sense. David Chase just got a little more artistic with the last episode than people were used to, and at first it rubbed people the wrong way. But I consider the Sopranos finale to be brilliant.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 I wish I wouldn't have just read that, lol. I honestly don't understand why these writers admit this kind of thing. For someone like me, it just takes away from the show. I remember an interview with the Lost writers back before I had ever even seen an episode of that show. They admitted that they only had conceived about two seasons worth of material in their heads. Then it became a huge hit and they had to come up with some ideas quick. Well, although I LOVED the finale, I hated almost all of the final season, and if I'm being honest, it's still basically theories as far as some of what was going on in a few of the latter seasons, not just S6. But to me, the finale showed to me that it wasn't the REASONS behind everything that were what I should be focusing on, but it was the common experiences that the castaways shared and the relationships that they developed along the way. That allowed me to let go of a lot of the stuff that really had no explanation. (And I know a lot of you guys are passionate Lost fans, so I'm not trying to dredge up a whole debate again...lol) To me, this is Gilligan basically saying he's gonna find a way to pull something out of his arse for the final season of Breaking Bad, and that is just not acceptable to me. This is why I rarely watch scripted television, in fact. With movies, you don't often hear a director or writer saying half way through the production, "you know what? I'll be damned, but I have no idea where to go from here...." Some movies are good, some are bad, but at least they have a fully contrived story arc in mind before they shoot the first scene. Oh, and this writer is clueless...anyone who takes the time to really pay attention to the Sopranos finale will have NO QUESTION about Tony's fate. I know this because I was one of the people who DIDN'T pay attention when I initially watched it, and so I was left thinking, "wtf?" But those who paid attention to it laid it out perfectly, and when I went back and watched it again to see exactly what ques and clues were there, it all made perfect sense. David Chase just got a little more artistic with the last episode than people were used to, and at first it rubbed people the wrong way. But I consider the Sopranos finale to be brilliant. See, I think of a season as more analogous to a movie than the entirety of a series. I understand where you're coming from, but this doesn't bother me especially since BB leans toward "character driven" rather than "plot driven". Gilligan may not have all the answers yet, but I seriously doubt that he's scrambling for story lines. I can only imagine how emotionally and mentally draining this process must be - ending such a great story. He has my absolute trust.
ajzepp Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 See, I think of a season as more analogous to a movie than the entirety of a series. I understand where you're coming from, but this doesn't bother me especially since BB leans toward "character driven" rather than "plot driven". Gilligan may not have all the answers yet, but I seriously doubt that he's scrambling for story lines. I can only imagine how emotionally and mentally draining this process must be - ending such a great story. He has my absolute trust. The only problem is that he created an ending for S4 that he just won't be able to match, lol. If he finds a way to top it, I'll be forever in awe of the guy. Most of us don't need him to top it, just keep the quality of the show at the same level. I dunno, I just don't want to see behind the curtain sometimes, and this is one of them. If Tgreg were working on a really big project, even though he's here posting actively and even if he were willing to talk to me about his ideas, I wouldn't want to know. I'd rather just forget about all the behind the scenes stuff and enjoy what ends up on my tv. And I sure as hell don't want to hear that Gilligan has no idea where to take the show
Buftex Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 It doesn't bother me...life is like that...we never know where it is going to go...but I guess I am one of the few people who thought the "Sopranos" finale was pretty brilliant...one of the worst series finales I have ever seen was "Six Feet Under". Admittedly, that was one of those shows that started to suck, long before it ended, but the whole look into the future of each character (with old man and lady makeup on....ugh!) to see how they end up was just atrocious...but most people I know, loved that finale. I read an interview with Matthew Weiner recently, about "Mad Men" (my other favorite show on tv right now) and I was concerned that he said that he already had the final 3 seasons of the show mapped out...it is going to end in present day, he says. What I loved about the "Sopranos" so much (to me, still hands down, the greatest tv drama of all time) was the fact that the characters were so rich, the writers could meander off a bit on irrelevant story lines, just to add to the richness of the characters, rather than worry about how it will affect the overall story line. Not to sound pretentious, but it worked like a great novel, for me. "Mad Men" has always had that quality, as does "Breaking Bad". There are other shows, like, say "Weeds" (which I like, but don't always love) where they seem to just throw a zillion things at the wall, never ending plot twists, to the point where it detracts from the characters. I think more shows fall into that trap, particularly nowadays, when every show has to be "edgy"...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) The only problem is that he created an ending for S4 that he just won't be able to match, lol. If he finds a way to top it, I'll be forever in awe of the guy. Most of us don't need him to top it, just keep the quality of the show at the same level. I dunno, I just don't want to see behind the curtain sometimes, and this is one of them. If Tgreg were working on a really big project, even though he's here posting actively and even if he were willing to talk to me about his ideas, I wouldn't want to know. I'd rather just forget about all the behind the scenes stuff and enjoy what ends up on my tv. And I sure as hell don't want to hear that Gilligan has no idea where to take the show In this particular case, I doubt that "no idea" literally means no idea. I'd imagine they aren't too far away from principal photography, so maybe Gilligan is just being humble and most of it is indeed figured out? If not, he'd best hurry! Edited November 25, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine
UConn James Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 I wish I wouldn't have just read that, lol. I honestly don't understand why these writers admit this kind of thing. For someone like me, it just takes away from the show. I remember an interview with the Lost writers back before I had ever even seen an episode of that show. They admitted that they only had conceived about two seasons worth of material in their heads. Then it became a huge hit and they had to come up with some ideas quick. Well, although I LOVED the finale, I hated almost all of the final season, and if I'm being honest, it's still basically theories as far as some of what was going on in a few of the latter seasons, not just S6. But to me, the finale showed to me that it wasn't the REASONS behind everything that were what I should be focusing on, but it was the common experiences that the castaways shared and the relationships that they developed along the way. That allowed me to let go of a lot of the stuff that really had no explanation. (And I know a lot of you guys are passionate Lost fans, so I'm not trying to dredge up a whole debate again...lol) To me, this is Gilligan basically saying he's gonna find a way to pull something out of his arse for the final season of Breaking Bad, and that is just not acceptable to me. This is why I rarely watch scripted television, in fact. With movies, you don't often hear a director or writer saying half way through the production, "you know what? I'll be damned, but I have no idea where to go from here...." Some movies are good, some are bad, but at least they have a fully contrived story arc in mind before they shoot the first scene. Oh, and this writer is clueless...anyone who takes the time to really pay attention to the Sopranos finale will have NO QUESTION about Tony's fate. I know this because I was one of the people who DIDN'T pay attention when I initially watched it, and so I was left thinking, "wtf?" But those who paid attention to it laid it out perfectly, and when I went back and watched it again to see exactly what ques and clues were there, it all made perfect sense. David Chase just got a little more artistic with the last episode than people were used to, and at first it rubbed people the wrong way. But I consider the Sopranos finale to be brilliant. AJ, if you have the time, even if it's just listening while you're doing the dishes or something, I would HIGHLY recommend watching Damon Lindelof's chat on Kevin Pollack's webcast. It's long but it's worth it. There's some talk about the so-called feud with George R.R. Martin, but some detail on his upcoming projects and LOST. For instance, for as big a fan of the show I was, I didn't know Damon's own father had passed away only several months before he started work on it with Abrams. I just see the character of Christian Shepard so much differently now. And I hope DL got as much as I did from the show vis-a-vis helping his healing process --- which I imagine it can be difficult to feel the emotion when you've worked on the thing from concept to finish roll. Sometimes for the creator it takes a long break from the work to be able to go back and see it as a viewer rather than a creator. (Pollack does a spot-on Larry King impression. And Lindelof's go at the end is just ing brilliant how it comes together.) In this particular case, I doubt that "no idea" literally means no idea. I'd imagine they aren't too far away from principal photography, so maybe Gilligan is just being humble and most of it is indeed figured out? If not, he'd best hurry! I would guess "no idea" = many possibilities, with the ability to choose just one path.
meazza Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 I wish I wouldn't have just read that, lol. I honestly don't understand why these writers admit this kind of thing. For someone like me, it just takes away from the show. I remember an interview with the Lost writers back before I had ever even seen an episode of that show. They admitted that they only had conceived about two seasons worth of material in their heads. Then it became a huge hit and they had to come up with some ideas quick. Well, although I LOVED the finale, I hated almost all of the final season, and if I'm being honest, it's still basically theories as far as some of what was going on in a few of the latter seasons, not just S6. But to me, the finale showed to me that it wasn't the REASONS behind everything that were what I should be focusing on, but it was the common experiences that the castaways shared and the relationships that they developed along the way. That allowed me to let go of a lot of the stuff that really had no explanation. (And I know a lot of you guys are passionate Lost fans, so I'm not trying to dredge up a whole debate again...lol) To me, this is Gilligan basically saying he's gonna find a way to pull something out of his arse for the final season of Breaking Bad, and that is just not acceptable to me. This is why I rarely watch scripted television, in fact. With movies, you don't often hear a director or writer saying half way through the production, "you know what? I'll be damned, but I have no idea where to go from here...." Some movies are good, some are bad, but at least they have a fully contrived story arc in mind before they shoot the first scene. Oh, and this writer is clueless...anyone who takes the time to really pay attention to the Sopranos finale will have NO QUESTION about Tony's fate. I know this because I was one of the people who DIDN'T pay attention when I initially watched it, and so I was left thinking, "wtf?" But those who paid attention to it laid it out perfectly, and when I went back and watched it again to see exactly what ques and clues were there, it all made perfect sense. David Chase just got a little more artistic with the last episode than people were used to, and at first it rubbed people the wrong way. But I consider the Sopranos finale to be brilliant. I'm pretty sure that he didn't have an idea how season 2 would be and so on. That's TV. He probably has a long term path and a general idea but he could be cancelled from one season to the next. Ok maybe I was a bit harsh on the Sopranos. Entourage's series finale was the worst EVER!
ajzepp Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 It doesn't bother me...life is like that...we never know where it is going to go...but I guess I am one of the few people who thought the "Sopranos" finale was pretty brilliant...one of the worst series finales I have ever seen was "Six Feet Under". Admittedly, that was one of those shows that started to suck, long before it ended, but the whole look into the future of each character (with old man and lady makeup on....ugh!) to see how they end up was just atrocious...but most people I know, loved that finale. I read an interview with Matthew Weiner recently, about "Mad Men" (my other favorite show on tv right now) and I was concerned that he said that he already had the final 3 seasons of the show mapped out...it is going to end in present day, he says. What I loved about the "Sopranos" so much (to me, still hands down, the greatest tv drama of all time) was the fact that the characters were so rich, the writers could meander off a bit on irrelevant story lines, just to add to the richness of the characters, rather than worry about how it will affect the overall story line. Not to sound pretentious, but it worked like a great novel, for me. "Mad Men" has always had that quality, as does "Breaking Bad". There are other shows, like, say "Weeds" (which I like, but don't always love) where they seem to just throw a zillion things at the wall, never ending plot twists, to the point where it detracts from the characters. I think more shows fall into that trap, particularly nowadays, when every show has to be "edgy"... My memory sometimes isn't the best, but I'm PRETTY sure it was you who helped me to see the finale in a different light, to the point where I was overwhelmed with how brilliant it really was. Did you have some sort of write-up or article from someone that sort of broke down the episode? The way Chase wrote it, it was almost like a tribute to the biggest fans of the show, because there were a lot of subtleties and such that needed to be recognized in order to sort of "decode" the episode. The casual viewer wouldn't understand or appreciate it as much without being mindful of this stuff, which is why at first I didn't get it. If that was in fact you, do you still have the link to that article/write-up? Meazza (and others) might really enjoy reading that and it might give him different perspective on what happened as it did me. In this particular case, I doubt that "no idea" literally means no idea. I'd imagine they aren't too far away from principal photography, so maybe Gilligan is just being humble and most of it is indeed figured out? If not, he'd best hurry! True, valid point...I guess I'd just rather he take an off-season if he doesn't have something really great already in mind, you know? This show has become special to a lot of us, and I'd hate to have a rushed season at the end that didn't do justice to the first four. I rarely have any trouble delaying gratification, and would choose that over a season that fails to meet the bar that has already been set...cause that sumbitch has been set HIGH. AJ, if you have the time, even if it's just listening while you're doing the dishes or something, I would HIGHLY recommend watching Damon Lindelof's chat on Kevin Pollack's webcast. It's long but it's worth it. There's some talk about the so-called feud with George R.R. Martin, but some detail on his upcoming projects and LOST. For instance, for as big a fan of the show I was, I didn't know Damon's own father had passed away only several months before he started work on it with Abrams. I just see the character of Christian Shepard so much differently now. And I hope DL got as much as I did from the show vis-a-vis helping his healing process --- which I imagine it can be difficult to feel the emotion when you've worked on the thing from concept to finish roll. Sometimes for the creator it takes a long break from the work to be able to go back and see it as a viewer rather than a creator. (Pollack does a spot-on Larry King impression. And Lindelof's go at the end is just ing brilliant how it comes together.) Definitely...would love to check that out! And just for the record with regard to Lost, I didn't mean to hack on the show above...as I admitted in the Lost thread, I cried like a BABY during the finale. They took me to a place I was NOT expecting to go, and they tied things together in a way I never saw coming. It blew me away, and just the thought of watching it again has me feeling emotional...that's the impact it had on me. I'm pretty sure that he didn't have an idea how season 2 would be and so on. That's TV. He probably has a long term path and a general idea but he could be cancelled from one season to the next. Ok maybe I was a bit harsh on the Sopranos. Entourage's series finale was the worst EVER! Yeah, I think you will see the Sopranos finale in a different light, man...honestly, there was a LOT to it...I couldn't believe it when I read the breakdown and then watched it a second time. And yeah, I know my criticisms are probably unrealistic, I guess it's just my personality to have a clear path of where I'm going before I take the first step, and knowing that this isn't always the case with tv sort of turns me off to it.
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