BB2004 Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida 3 72 Alex Carrington DE Arkansas State 6 178 Arthur Moats OLB James Madison Anybody out here remember those guys? Sure, the Bills have the #3 pick this year and there are some awesome defensive players to choose from. But Troup sure seemed to be coming into his own towards the last 4 games last year, and Carrington hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. Both those kids came out of smaller colleges so they need more time to acclimate, but they are still both high draft picks just entering into their second years. And then there's Arthur. If this kid picks up where he left off last year, Nix will end up with the absolute steal of the 2010 draft from last year's 6th round. Of course I would love to see the Bills pick Von Miller if they don't go for one of the two top QB's at 3. But who knows if Moats won't end up being even better then Miller by the time they both retire years from now?? And of course, Dave Wandstadt, former Super Bowl winning DC (over our beloved Bills ironically), has joined Chan to help the Bills rebuild. With him on board to help utilize Troup, Carrington and Moats better, choosing Newton or Gabbert at 3 (as I hope he does) becomes less of a tradgedy passing on Miller or one of the other great defensive prospects. If we do take Von Miller with the 3rd pick and there is a decent chance of the happening, the outside linebacker position will certainly have some nice depth. I'd still like to see us pick up an inside linebacker somewhere in the middle rounds of the draft.
Astrobot Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Love it! How bout VM, Martez Wilson, Ras-I D, and then K. Ellis?? It's entirely possible. Brandon Burton may still be there when we pick in RD3, otherwise Dowling. Right now DraftTek has Burton to Cleveland 2 picks after us, and Dowling dropping to #81 to da Raidahz.
Alphadawg7 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida 3 72 Alex Carrington DE Arkansas State 6 178 Arthur Moats OLB James Madison Anybody out here remember those guys? Sure, the Bills have the #3 pick this year and there are some awesome defensive players to choose from. But Troup sure seemed to be coming into his own towards the last 4 games last year, and Carrington hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. Both those kids came out of smaller colleges so they need more time to acclimate, but they are still both high draft picks just entering into their second years. And then there's Arthur. If this kid picks up where he left off last year, Nix will end up with the absolute steal of the 2010 draft from last year's 6th round. Of course I would love to see the Bills pick Von Miller if they don't go for one of the two top QB's at 3. But who knows if Moats won't end up being even better then Miller by the time they both retire years from now?? And of course, Dave Wandstadt, former Super Bowl winning DC (over our beloved Bills ironically), has joined Chan to help the Bills rebuild. With him on board to help utilize Troup, Carrington and Moats better, choosing Newton or Gabbert at 3 (as I hope he does) becomes less of a tradgedy passing on Miller or one of the other great defensive prospects. I actually think these 3 guys could become at least good starters if not better. I don't think our D is in bad of shape going into next season as it looked last season. If Merriman can be at least 80% of the player he was and stay healthy (two big question marks though), then he will make a pretty big impact on this team. The 3 guys you have listed here all have a year under their belt now and showed promise last year, so if they can continue to develop then those 3 and Merriman could really get this D back on track.
Meark Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 That is a huge point that people have been missing. These guys that we drafted last year weren't good enough to win starting positions on the worst rush defense in the entire NFL. We were 28th worst over all? I have hope for the new guys we got last year but lets keep it real. If they were that good they would have already been starters. WTF I don't get it.. Kyle Williams started at NT.. not Troup.. Williams is our best defender.. Is Troup supposed to out perform him immediately as a rookie? He seemed to do pretty well when they played 4-3. Stroud was playing DE and paid big bucks so they are just going to give the job to the rookie Carrington? Come on! They didn't start paying Carrington until near the end of the season to see if he would improve the production so the guy didn't even get much playing time. You didn't see much from him because he wasn't in the game. Moats wasn't utilized until near the end of the season either. He was purely a pass rusher in college. He is going to take a little time to develop. When they turned him loose on blitzes he was very disruptive and showed lots of promise. Coaches just don't plunk in rookies over highly paid seasoned vets overnight especially when this whole roster was 100% new to them. I think you guys are the ones missing the point and aren't very realistic.
NewEra Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 My honest assessment is as follows: Troup barely played until the second half of the season. Our run defense didnt improve any when he was in. When he was in, he had troule holding his ground agaisnt 1 blocker let alone two, and he didnt get down the LOS at all. I didnt see him lined up as a 3-4 NG much at all, because out D barely came out in a 3-4 when he finally was getting reps. On last seasons performance I see no reason to think why he will develop into a starting caliber 34 NG, other than he is young and everyone has a chance. I am not passing on a great DL prospect because we drafted Troup last year. Carrington played very very little. He was inactive during games, when John McCargo was active. Exo Facto the Bills thought Carrington was worse than McCargo. it took Dwan Edwards getting injured to get Carrington his first live action. He came in v Pittsburg and instantly showed he was pretty darn good. I think he had a sack on his 2nd or third play, and a QB hit the play right before or after. The following week the Bills barely played him. this continued for the rest of the season. I cannot figure out why he wasnt starting after that Pitt game, maybe he wasnt playing within his role? Who knows. Carrington looks like the next Jim Leonard/J. Greer/Fred Jackson in that he plays great when he is in but the bills staff doesnt play him for some reason and when they finally get a chance they are darn good. I have some hope for Carrington, but I would not pass on DL prospects because of him. We need depth if Carrington can one day be a starter Moats was very good. I really like his play. he was strong v the run setting the run and forcing plays inside. He generated a good pass rush when he had his chances. I think he could be our Lamarr Woodly. I expect him to be the best pick of his class. I guess what I am saying is a fully expect him to "develop". Even assuming all these guys pan out, that gives us 1 good LB and 3 good Dlineman (including KW). That means we still need D lineman and LBs. Please draft a lot of them (good ones, and not VMiller) Which nose guards are you not going to pass on? There are maybe 2 or 3 that are worth drafting. If Taylor is there in the 2nd, I'd take him. I doubt he's there. If Powe I'd there on the 3rd I'd consider him, if not, Id definitely take him in the 4th. Other than that, I'm not sure there's an NG that can be better than Troupe. So we're talking about 2 players. DE will be looked at, there's a bunch of good prospects.
DUFF Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 On the verrge. ON the verge of what. Seriously. There's a reason they won 5 games last year, they're not good. The front 7 was horrible. If they can start to stop the run they MAY be on the verge of going 7-9, but come on. Nobody the Bills draft contribute immediately, they just don't, and this year will likely be more of the same. Stop giving up 170 yards a game on the ground and then talk to me about being on the verge of anything. 4 games
BobChalmers Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Taking dareus/fairley/jordan etc in rd 1 and following that up with a true NT is the best way to fix this defense. All of the LBs will look better if they had people eating up the lineman in front of them. As much as our d backfield pass defense ranking is skewed because no one has to pass our LBs are a little maligned because there is no beef in front of them. If we do go VOn we have to take an NT in rd 2 and put off QB for another year. Drafting the same positions every year is the surest way to make NO PROGRESS EVER. In your scenario, we will have our best defensive player (Kyle Williams) plus three of our four major acquisitions last season (the top FA add last year, Dwan Edwards, plus our #2 and #3 draft picks - Troupe and Carrington) fighting over only THREE SPOTS on the roster with our top two picks this year. That's right YOUR PLAN is for SIX PLAYERS - two top veterans and four draft picks in from rounds 1-3 that need to be starters FOR ONLY 3 SPOTS. Meanwhile no upgrade at LB, DB, TE, ORT... ??? awesome. Our DL was not the problem last year. Our LB's sucked out loud. We had guys like Kelsay and Maybin, and an injured Torbor at OLB, and couldn't contain the outside run. Maybe you wanted Wanny to run a 6-1 defense??? One dominant 3-4 DE - say Dareus - would be OK - but if you add him, Williams is now a full time DT, which means Troup is there in reserve, so where the heck is your "true NT" supposed to help?? Fortunately, Nix has already made it clear he doesn't agree with you, and has come out clearly saying months ago that the problem with the run defense was not the DL but was that the LB weren't good enough/too small. Edited April 23, 2011 by BobChalmers
freester Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Agree with this post 100%. It is kind of weird hearing people talk about the promise and the potential of Troup and Carrington, when I didn't see anything remotely special out of either of them. I watched every game last year, and yes, I may have been inebriated in one or seven of those games, but I still don't recall seeing them do anything. I also agree. There are too many fans on this board who want to believe that Buddy knows what he is doing. These guys have shown nothing. They are no better than all the street free agents we signed last year. We had poor draft last year and I suspect we will do the same this year. No team had less starts from its draft than us, and this was on a terrible team.
John from Riverside Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Oh yes.....Buddy Nix doesn't know anything about identifying talent...... Jesus Christ
K Gun Special Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 yea just like all the message board scouts who break down these guys by watching "film"" or "tape" on youtube.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida 3 72 Alex Carrington DE Arkansas State 6 178 Arthur Moats OLB James Madison Anybody out here remember those guys? Sure, the Bills have the #3 pick this year and there are some awesome defensive players to choose from. But Troup sure seemed to be coming into his own towards the last 4 games last year, and Carrington hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. Both those kids came out of smaller colleges so they need more time to acclimate, but they are still both high draft picks just entering into their second years. And then there's Arthur. If this kid picks up where he left off last year, Nix will end up with the absolute steal of the 2010 draft from last year's 6th round. Of course I would love to see the Bills pick Von Miller if they don't go for one of the two top QB's at 3. But who knows if Moats won't end up being even better then Miller by the time they both retire years from now?? And of course, Dave Wandstadt, former Super Bowl winning DC (over our beloved Bills ironically), has joined Chan to help the Bills rebuild. With him on board to help utilize Troup, Carrington and Moats better, choosing Newton or Gabbert at 3 (as I hope he does) becomes less of a tradgedy passing on Miller or one of the other great defensive prospects. Gabbert Newton
Mr. WEO Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Oh yes.....Buddy Nix doesn't know anything about identifying talent...... Jesus Christ I know, really--he drafted Rivers, for crissakes! Edited April 23, 2011 by Mr. WEO
spartacus Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Oh yes.....Buddy Nix doesn't know anything about identifying talent...... Jesus Christ yeah- his track record of Maybin and Spiller give him a life time free pass.
RealityCheck Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida 3 72 Alex Carrington DE Arkansas State 6 178 Arthur Moats OLB James Madison Anybody out here remember those guys? Sure, the Bills have the #3 pick this year and there are some awesome defensive players to choose from. But Troup sure seemed to be coming into his own towards the last 4 games last year, and Carrington hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. Both those kids came out of smaller colleges so they need more time to acclimate, but they are still both high draft picks just entering into their second years. And then there's Arthur. If this kid picks up where he left off last year, Nix will end up with the absolute steal of the 2010 draft from last year's 6th round. Of course I would love to see the Bills pick Von Miller if they don't go for one of the two top QB's at 3. But who knows if Moats won't end up being even better then Miller by the time they both retire years from now?? And of course, Dave Wandstadt, former Super Bowl winning DC (over our beloved Bills ironically), has joined Chan to help the Bills rebuild. With him on board to help utilize Troup, Carrington and Moats better, choosing Newton or Gabbert at 3 (as I hope he does) becomes less of a tradgedy passing on Miller or one of the other great defensive prospects. "People tend to forget last year's picks" for a reason. We were 4-12. For Troup and Carrington I think that it will come down to physical matutity. These are power position guys that have only begun to develop physically. Power lifters don't hit their prime until their 30's barring injuries. Most of my favorite DTs of all time took 3 or 4 years before they began to show what they could do. How good was Kyle Williams as a rookie? Now look at him. As for Moats, this coming season, if it's a full one, will probably tell us what his true upside actually is.
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 yeah- his track record of Maybin and Spiller give him a life time free pass. He didn't draft Maybin, numbnuts.
Webster Guy Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) I dont think you can group Carrington and Troupe in with Moats. Moats made plays and had some significant contributions. Carrington certainly looks the part with this size and frame, and Troupe is built like a DT with that lower body weight, but those two didn't impress very much in their rookie seasons. Not worried about them yet, just didn't see the explosiveness of an NFL playmaker yet like Moats showed us. As far as this year, I think the Bills Best Player board looks like this 1.Dareus 2.Miller 3.Gabbert If we get 1 or 2 then we take Ponder in the 2nd round. No Cam Newton, No Fairley or Bowers for us in B Lo. Cant wait for draft day. Im glad they do it in prime time Thursday AND Friday evenings. NFL getting smart. For once. Edited April 23, 2011 by Webster Guy
808 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 He didn't draft Maybin, numbnuts. i was gonna type the exact same thing
spartacus Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 He didn't draft Maybin, numbnuts. Buddy was there for the pick he blessed it, they picked him too convenient to scapegoat Jauron for all of the failed picks and give a free pass to the talent evaluators
benbillsfan Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida 3 72 Alex Carrington DE Arkansas State 6 178 Arthur Moats OLB James Madison Anybody out here remember those guys? Sure, the Bills have the #3 pick this year and there are some awesome defensive players to choose from. But Troup sure seemed to be coming into his own towards the last 4 games last year, and Carrington hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. Both those kids came out of smaller colleges so they need more time to acclimate, but they are still both high draft picks just entering into their second years. And then there's Arthur. If this kid picks up where he left off last year, Nix will end up with the absolute steal of the 2010 draft from last year's 6th round. Of course I would love to see the Bills pick Von Miller if they don't go for one of the two top QB's at 3. But who knows if Moats won't end up being even better then Miller by the time they both retire years from now?? And of course, Dave Wandstadt, former Super Bowl winning DC (over our beloved Bills ironically), has joined Chan to help the Bills rebuild. With him on board to help utilize Troup, Carrington and Moats better, choosing Newton or Gabbert at 3 (as I hope he does) becomes less of a tradgedy passing on Miller or one of the other great defensive prospects. all i can say is what a great post....good stuff here....also positive not negative...
CSBill Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I dont think you can group Carrington and Troupe in with Moats. Moats made plays and had some significant contributions. Carrington certainly looks the part with this size and frame, and Troupe is built like a DT with that lower body weight, but those two didn't impress very much in their rookie seasons. Not worried about them yet, just didn't see the explosiveness of an NFL playmaker yet like Moats showed us. As far as this year, I think the Bills Best Player board looks like this 1.Dareus 2.Miller 3.Gabbert If we get 1 or 2 then we take Ponder in the 2nd round. No Cam Newton, No Fairley or Bowers for us in B Lo. Cant wait for draft day. Im glad they do it in prime time Thursday AND Friday evenings. NFL getting smart. For once. NOOOOOOO!!!!!! to Ponder, losers in college don't turn out to be winners in the NFL, two words: "Trent Edwards" But back to the point of the thread, essentially the Bills already have two solid picks in Easley and Batton. Both will play, and both will contribute.
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