People Tend To Forget Last Year's Picks

[WickedGame]

I believe our defensive troubles comes down to coaching. Yes, our DC inherited a lot of mediocre talent, and yes, we were shifting to a 3-4. But Chain Gailey took a pathetic offense (be honest, that's what it has been for years) and made it respectable -- and did so with a no-name cast. He recognized the QB fail within a few weeks, made a change, and gave the offense a spark and an identity.

 

What did DC Edwards do when he recognized mediocre talent and poor execution? Nothing. He didn't get mediocre players to "play up" as Gailey did. He didn't take swift, decisive action to bench or cut dead wood. He didn't stamp an identity on the D. He didn't give give young prospects playing time to gain experience.

 

We need an infusion of talent on the D, but we also need a coach who can make chicken salad out of our current check sh**.

 

I believe the current regime is doing what Levy said he would do (but didn't): Righting the ship. Before we can be a good football team, we have to purge the worthless, form a plan, and build on a solid foundation. Year One was "eliminate the suck" -- let's see what Year Two brings.

[LabattBlue]

It's not uncommon for defensive lineman to take a few years to develop.

I agree with that. My point is they have shown NOTHING to date that would get me excited about their roles in 2011.

Edited April 22, 2011 by LabattBlue

[PDaDdy]

Troup and Carrington did next to nothing last year(especially Carrington). Other than the fact they were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds respectively, there were not many signs indicating that they will be future starters. They are just as likely to be busts. Only time will tell.

 

 

PS And this was on a defense that was HORRIBLE last year.

 

That is a huge point that people have been missing. These guys that we drafted last year weren't good enough to win starting positions on the worst rush defense in the entire NFL. We were 28th worst over all? I have hope for the new guys we got last year but lets keep it real. If they were that good they would have already been starters.

[John from Riverside]

Troup and Carrington did next to nothing last year(especially Carrington). Other than the fact they were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds respectively, there were not many signs indicating that they will be future starters. They are just as likely to be busts. Only time will tell.

 

I disagree.......your 1st year starters at DL tend to not be sure ballot HOF'rs in their first year and that happens with MANY who are even drafted in the 1st round.....

 

They did not get on the field enough last year to make this kind of prediction....and when Carrington got on the field he DID make an impact...he was outplaying Stroud at the end of the year.

 

I really just dont understand why people think 3-4 down linemen are supposed to be playmakers....they are not....they are guys who push the pocket and hold down OL so that linbackers can make plays.....

 

 

 

 

PS And this was on a defense that was HORRIBLE last year.

[Pete]

That is a huge point that people have been missing. These guys that we drafted last year weren't good enough to win starting positions on the worst rush defense in the entire NFL. We were 28th worst over all? I have hope for the new guys we got last year but lets keep it real. If they were that good they would have already been starters.

agreed. Kyle Williams is the only player on D that can't be easily upgraded

[John from Riverside]

Agree with this post 100%. It is kind of weird hearing people talk about the promise and the potential of Troup and Carrington, when I didn't see anything remotely special out of either of them. I watched every game last year, and yes, I may have been inebriated in one or seven of those games, but I still don't recall seeing them do anything.

 

My question to this is what do you expect to see out of your down linemen in a 3-4 (I hope you are not hoping to see Bruce Smith type production)

[beast34]

I totally see what you are saying but before the bills start worrying about depth, they should first try to get competitive at most positions.. Just an opinion, obviously pobody's nerfect, or write on these matters:)

Getting competitive at most positions requires getting talented players to improve depth at each position, to either push the veteran above them on the depth chart or earn the opportunity to start.

[K-No]

OH yea we also had an aoffense that couldnt sustain drives meaning the D was on the field getting worn down all game. Most of the rushing yards given up came in the second half which should be no surprise.

 

The defense needs more talent but you will be surprised how much better they will be when the offense can keep them off the field.

 

Really? Blaming the worst D in the NFL on the Offense? Sure, some impact there but maybe the D could try a '3 and out' once in a while to stay off the field more! That front 7 was lousy. There's just no sugar coating it.

[Thoner7]

My honest assessment is as follows:

 

Troup barely played until the second half of the season. Our run defense didnt improve any when he was in. When he was in, he had troule holding his ground agaisnt 1 blocker let alone two, and he didnt get down the LOS at all. I didnt see him lined up as a 3-4 NG much at all, because out D barely came out in a 3-4 when he finally was getting reps. On last seasons performance I see no reason to think why he will develop into a starting caliber 34 NG, other than he is young and everyone has a chance. I am not passing on a great DL prospect because we drafted Troup last year.

 

Carrington played very very little. He was inactive during games, when John McCargo was active. Exo Facto the Bills thought Carrington was worse than McCargo. it took Dwan Edwards getting injured to get Carrington his first live action. He came in v Pittsburg and instantly showed he was pretty darn good. I think he had a sack on his 2nd or third play, and a QB hit the play right before or after. The following week the Bills barely played him. this continued for the rest of the season. I cannot figure out why he wasnt starting after that Pitt game, maybe he wasnt playing within his role? Who knows. Carrington looks like the next Jim Leonard/J. Greer/Fred Jackson in that he plays great when he is in but the bills staff doesnt play him for some reason and when they finally get a chance they are darn good. I have some hope for Carrington, but I would not pass on DL prospects because of him. We need depth if Carrington can one day be a starter

 

Moats was very good. I really like his play. he was strong v the run setting the run and forcing plays inside. He generated a good pass rush when he had his chances. I think he could be our Lamarr Woodly. I expect him to be the best pick of his class. I guess what I am saying is a fully expect him to "develop".

 

Even assuming all these guys pan out, that gives us 1 good LB and 3 good Dlineman (including KW). That means we still need D lineman and LBs. Please draft a lot of them (good ones, and not VMiller)

[Bill from NYC]

I tend to remember people raving about eric wood.

 

Me too, although I'm not sure why. I sure hope that he is fully healed from his injury this year.

[Direhard Fan]

As most of you have said, "It's all about DEFENCE" I can only hope we stay in that mode and let Fitz develope as our very good quarterback. I believe if we give him the opportunity to be on the field more, he will produce in spades. Spiller will surprise us all. He was not happy with his production and has said so. A great sign of a star in the making. OT is big. Get one. Buddy will. Thatt being said is all about if we play this year. Smith needs to go. They made a big mistake there.

[BobbyC81]

As most of you have said, "It's all about DEFENCE" I can only hope we stay in that mode and let Fitz develope as our very good quarterback. I believe if we give him the opportunity to be on the field more, he will produce in spades. Spiller will surprise us all. He was not happy with his production and has said so. A great sign of a star in the making. OT is big. Get one. Buddy will. Thatt being said is all about if we play this year. Smith needs to go. They made a big mistake there.

 

Right! As Charles Bizarrekely says: Defense! Look it up! D-E-F-E-N-S-E! I may be wrong but I doubt it!

[Fan in Chicago]

2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida

3 72 Alex Carrington DE Arkansas State

6 178 Arthur Moats OLB James Madison

 

Anybody out here remember those guys? Sure, the Bills have the #3 pick this year and there are some awesome defensive players to choose from. But Troup sure seemed to be coming into his own towards the last 4 games last year, and Carrington hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet. Both those kids came out of smaller colleges so they need more time to acclimate, but they are still both high draft picks just entering into their second years.

 

And then there's Arthur. If this kid picks up where he left off last year, Nix will end up with the absolute steal of the 2010 draft from last year's 6th round. Of course I would love to see the Bills pick Von Miller if they don't go for one of the two top QB's at 3. But who knows if Moats won't end up being even better then Miller by the time they both retire years from now??

 

And of course, Dave Wandstadt, former Super Bowl winning DC (over our beloved Bills ironically), has joined Chan to help the Bills rebuild. With him on board to help utilize Troup, Carrington and Moats better, choosing Newton or Gabbert at 3 (as I hope he does) becomes less of a tradgedy passing on Miller or one of the other great defensive prospects.

 

good points of discussion. I think these players plus Easley will contribute in a big way in 2011 and beyond. Frankly we got little production from most of last year's picks. Of the lot, I think the coaching staff must have been most disappointed by CJ so far. I hope people who are saying we need to draft several players on D this year realize that there is a huge implication there - that the entire 2010 draft class is a bust. I am certainly not much of a talent evaluator but would like to believe that this coaching staff brought the rookies in slowly to help them develop and help being excellent players in a long run. As opposed to rushing them in and hindering their development.

Besides the first round which could go Dareus or Gabbert, I think we will see a lot of attention to the O especially at tackle and TE.

[spartacus]

I believe our defensive troubles comes down to coaching. Yes, our DC inherited a lot of mediocre talent, and yes, we were shifting to a 3-4. But Chain Gailey took a pathetic offense (be honest, that's what it has been for years) and made it respectable -- and did so with a no-name cast. He recognized the QB fail within a few weeks, made a change, and gave the offense a spark and an identity.

 

What did DC Edwards do when he recognized mediocre talent and poor execution? Nothing. He didn't get mediocre players to "play up" as Gailey did. He didn't take swift, decisive action to bench or cut dead wood. He didn't stamp an identity on the D. He didn't give give young prospects playing time to gain experience.

 

We need an infusion of talent on the D, but we also need a coach who can make chicken salad out of our current check sh**.

 

I believe the current regime is doing what Levy said he would do (but didn't): Righting the ship. Before we can be a good football team, we have to purge the worthless, form a plan, and build on a solid foundation. Year One was "eliminate the suck" -- let's see what Year Two brings.

 

if they are "purging the worthless" -

why is the totally inept Edwards still the DC?

they claim to be installing a 3-4 - but hire a guy with only a 4-3 background to go with their inept DC

Does not look like much of a plan to me

especially when you link that with their inability to identify NFL quality talent- things do not look so good

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

 

if they are "purging the worthless" -

why is the totally inept Edwards still the DC?

they claim to be installing a 3-4 - but hire a guy with only a 4-3 background to go with their inept DC

Does not look like much of a plan to me

especially when you link that with their inability to identify NFL quality talent- things do not look so good

Unitl Dave Wanstadt takes over for Gaily our defense will suck.

[billsfan89]

Last years draft is going to be proven bad or good on how Troup and Carrington play on the D-line. Both guys were drafted to build a 3-4 lets see how they do. The mid to bottom round picks also need to pan out. Moats looks to have a lot of potential as shown by last years performance.

 

As far as Easly and Batten goes its hard to see how they will develop.

[qdawg in philly]

I think Antonio Coleman is going to factor in this year as well as these other previous draft picks.

I agree with you there, Astro! When its all said and done I think he's going to be pretty good!

[John from Riverside]

My honest assessment is as follows:

 

Troup barely played until the second half of the season. Our run defense didnt improve any when he was in. When he was in, he had troule holding his ground agaisnt 1 blocker let alone two, and he didnt get down the LOS at all. I didnt see him lined up as a 3-4 NG much at all, because out D barely came out in a 3-4 when he finally was getting reps. On last seasons performance I see no reason to think why he will develop into a starting caliber 34 NG, other than he is young and everyone has a chance. I am not passing on a great DL prospect because we drafted Troup last year.

 

Carrington played very very little. He was inactive during games, when John McCargo was active. Exo Facto the Bills thought Carrington was worse than McCargo. it took Dwan Edwards getting injured to get Carrington his first live action. He came in v Pittsburg and instantly showed he was pretty darn good. I think he had a sack on his 2nd or third play, and a QB hit the play right before or after. The following week the Bills barely played him. this continued for the rest of the season. I cannot figure out why he wasnt starting after that Pitt game, maybe he wasnt playing within his role? Who knows. Carrington looks like the next Jim Leonard/J. Greer/Fred Jackson in that he plays great when he is in but the bills staff doesnt play him for some reason and when they finally get a chance they are darn good. I have some hope for Carrington, but I would not pass on DL prospects because of him. We need depth if Carrington can one day be a starter

 

Moats was very good. I really like his play. he was strong v the run setting the run and forcing plays inside. He generated a good pass rush when he had his chances. I think he could be our Lamarr Woodly. I expect him to be the best pick of his class. I guess what I am saying is a fully expect him to "develop".

 

Even assuming all these guys pan out, that gives us 1 good LB and 3 good Dlineman (including KW). That means we still need D lineman and LBs. Please draft a lot of them (good ones, and not VMiller)

 

 

On Troup you and I saw very different things....

 

- He didn't immediately get on the field.....lets keep in mind that we had a very good DT playing the position already

- Our run defense was not great with him in....but with out him it was an absolute disaster lets keep in mind that this was a kid that was up to what....360 pounds and worked his way down to 310 pounds or so? Now reports are that he is 325 pounds of good weight....

- I did NOT see him get pushed around last year when he was in.....he might not have won all of his battles but he was not the guy getting pushed around on the field......if anything that was Stroud

 

On Carrington as well

 

- Its pretty obvious that Chan was proving a point last year that you EARN your playing time not just based on your draft position.....he went with his veterans across the board when it came to Carrington, Troup, and CJ Spiller.

- It is pretty much known that Carrington was a raw beast who could play the run.....so there was going to be a learning curve with him (that isn't causing people to want to draft guys like Cam Newton or Gabbert....perhaps a different position but still the same concept) but when Carrington finally got onto the field he was making plays.....he was taking on double teams.....he was making tackles at the line of scrimmage......he was batting down balls at the line of scrimmage.....etc etc

 

There is a reason why when Chan released Marcus Stroud that he said he wanted to get his younger players on the field....that is because they are talented. Look for a healthy dose of Carrington and Troup this next year.

[San-O]

I am not trying to say that the Bills have not made there share and then some of mistakes but Mostly Football is not an immediate gratification sport.

 

Jimbo Played in the USFL for 2-3 years before he came back to Buffalo .

Bruuuuce was overweight and looked like a bust till year three in most peoples eyes.

Fat pat was a practice squad player before he got a shot and now everyone thinks he was a perrenial all pro from Day 1.

The list goes on.

 

We have Easley and Nelson who have played nothing but have the big Potential . If CJ breaks out this year ?????

 

All I am saying is give these guys a chance . If this draft loads us up on Defense , at the least these guys will be good back ups.

 

With a little luck this team is much better this year, we are on the verge and this draft may be just what we need to solidify some shaky positions.

 

 

On the verrge. ON the verge of what. Seriously. There's a reason they won 5 games last year, they're not good. The front 7

was horrible. If they can start to stop the run they MAY be on the verge of going 7-9, but come on. Nobody the Bills draft contribute immediately, they just don't, and this year will likely be more of the same.

 

Stop giving up 170 yards a game on the ground and then talk to me about being on the verge of anything.

[qdawg in philly]

Miller then Taylor-Baylor is an interesting way to do that. I still think ILB will need to be drafted early in this particular draft. How about NT Kenrick Ellis with our first RD4 pick?

Love it! How bout VM, Martez Wilson, Ras-I D, and then K. Ellis??