Jim in Anchorage Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 That is not the same... Apples and oranges with regard to what the business' are. I am not whining, really. The oil/gas industry is so pivotal in our society and really there is no competition. It effects alot than my piddly 5-30 bucks extra a tankful. Eating out is a luxury. As much as one can walk, ride bikes, whatever... It is very different with the petrol industry... It is almost survival... YET, there are even more expensive other options to avoid buying gas. If there were cheap options to keep the tacit collusion in check, I would agree with you. This argument should have no place in the free-market equation UNTIL THERE are viable cheaper alternatives that people can take advantage of. Seeing how dependant everyone is to the pertrol industry... There is no competition, this isn't free-market dynamics. Argue all you want that there is. What I really would like to see is the individual numbers the actual stations make over what they invoice the petrol for... I have not a clue. The owners are always saying they do better when gas is cheaper... IE: People buy more junk for their fat-asses. But we just don't see the numbers on that end. We see Exxon's 10%... I want to see what the individual station is making... Is that available? I can't really judge until those numbers are available. If we judge Exxon for its profit of 10%, we can judge Joe Schmoe station owner. Also, funny how Citgo is the leader when it comes to setting local price dynamics that every other station in an area tends to follow! As if that needs to be said. When was the last time you saw a GAS station? I mean a business that sold only fuel? You do not go to a gas station, you go to a mini mart that incidentally sells gas. All the owner needs is to break even at the pumps. The real profit is made with beer, coffee, beef jerky, ice cream bars and all the other things they sell at 300% mark up.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) As if that needs to be said. When was the last time you saw a GAS station? I mean a business that sold only fuel? You do not go to a gas station, you go to a mini mart that incidentally sells gas. All the owner needs is to break even at the pumps. The real profit is made with beer, coffee, beef jerky, ice cream bars and all the other things they sell at 300% mark up. I know that. Then why are prices so out of whack...?? Especially, in small group areas. It isn't about blends, taxes, or whatever. I have a hunch people in this economy were already spending less on the other things. The owners saying: "Break even at the pumps" just doesn't hold water anymore... How can prices be so out of whack... One can sit and watch the same truck go from station to station... With huge price discrepancies. This isn't about free-market... If it was, consumers would have more of choice in handling these dynamics on their own. I agree with DrFishfinder... They are gonna get what they can get overnight, it is human nature... ESPECIALLY when they know there is no real way to stop the practices. We really need to get a handle on these dynamics... It is profoundly messing up every aspect of the economy. Okay....so 'splain me this..... Shell station A is selling reg for $4.09 a gallon. Shell station B, a mile away, is selling reg for $3.93 a gallon. Presumably the same gas, presumably the same company. Is Shell station A paying more for their gas, or is it because they are right next to The Country Club of Miami and do because they can? Some I see are selling for 30-50 cents more! Sounds small... But times that by each average person's 15-20 gallon tank. The money is being siphoned out of the economy. Edited May 9, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois
TPS Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I got your back, TPS. It's mostly speculation driving the price. The dollar didn't strengthen to any appreciable degree yesterday and demand didn't suddenly fall, just the "concern" that it would. This is a good piece trying to discern what happened last week. oil prices
Magox Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Okay....so 'splain me this..... Shell station A is selling reg for $4.09 a gallon. Shell station B, a mile away, is selling reg for $3.93 a gallon. Presumably the same gas, presumably the same company. Is Shell station A paying more for their gas, or is it because they are right next to The Country Club of Miami and do because they can? Could be a number of factors...One possible explanation is that maybe Station B is in a different district of the city as Station A, therefore having a different tax rate. Or One gas station justifies their reasoning of keeping the price higher because they didnt sell off existing inventory where Station B works on the newer gasoline that was supplied to them by the refinery/distributor.
KD in CA Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 This is a good piece trying to discern what happened last week. oil prices A range of factors, both economic and political, were also at play. The recent rise in raw goods has been fueled in part by the U.S. Fed pumping cash into the markets by purchasing $600 billion in bonds. This program has pushed interest rates extraordinarily low, making borrowing essentially free once adjusted for inflation. Investors have been using the super-cheap money to buy into commodity markets. But the Fed's program is slated to end on June 30. So isn't this an example of the feds monkeying with economic levers and creating (supposedly) unintended consequences, to which they react by trying to blame people who understand cause and effect of the gov't policies better than the policy makers do?
DC Tom Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Could be a number of factors...One possible explanation is that maybe Station B is in a different district of the city as Station A, therefore having a different tax rate. Or One gas station justifies their reasoning of keeping the price higher because they didnt sell off existing inventory where Station B works on the newer gasoline that was supplied to them by the refinery/distributor. I believe the distributor tells the stations where to set their prices. So in that case, the easiest answer would be: different distributors.
Taro T Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I believe the distributor tells the stations where to set their prices. So in that case, the easiest answer would be: different distributors. According to my friend that owns a gas station, though the rack price charged by the distributor changes daily, the station owner sets the pump price on his own after surveying what the nearby competitors are doing and where rack cost is headed. The distributor will assist the station owner in setting price if asked, but the owner has final say in retail price.
Magox Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 According to my friend that owns a gas station, though the rack price charged by the distributor changes daily, the station owner sets the pump price on his own after surveying what the nearby competitors are doing and where rack cost is headed. The distributor will assist the station owner in setting price if asked, but the owner has final say in retail price. I figured this was the case
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I believe the distributor tells the stations where to set their prices. So in that case, the easiest answer would be: different distributors. Really... You wouldn't think considering where one see the same truck delivering petrol too! Same truck=same distributor, right? I did notice they do (at least around where I am) deliver during the wee hours of the morning.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) Negative news=gas immediately goes up. Positive news=gas prices remain stable. It would be nice if people were allowed to sink a 1,000 gallon tank on their property and buy right from a distributor... Along the lines of heating oil. If that is a safety issue than switch to natural gas... And tap it right off the house feed... Still a safety issue? There should be a game changer where the consumer can break away from the need for 15-30 gallons a pop. So much burn off of natural gas that doesn't get to market... Heck they shut down a turbine by the dump where I work... That torch burns wildly morning, noon, an night. Anyway, on the natural gas thing... Just visted BFLO... I never knew that Father Baker's in Lackawanna sits on its own production of natural gas. Supposedly, he was ahead of the curve back in the early 1900's... He kept on drilling, praying, drilling, and praying... ... Till they struck gas well into a 1,000 feet down... Still producing the needs for the Basillica, school, and others till this day. Could be a number of factors...One possible explanation is that maybe Station B is in a different district of the city as Station A, therefore having a different tax rate. Or One gas station justifies their reasoning of keeping the price higher because they didnt sell off existing inventory where Station B works on the newer gasoline that was supplied to them by the refinery/distributor. Baloney! The gas stations I am talking about sit right on both sides of the country line... Higher Cook county and lower Will county have no effect on it... Even in the rural sections. Now in corn country, it is lower... Ethanhol? Not wanting to incur the wrth of the farmers? Edited May 9, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois
TPS Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 So isn't this an example of the feds monkeying with economic levers and creating (supposedly) unintended consequences, to which they react by trying to blame people who understand cause and effect of the gov't policies better than the policy makers do? While there are a lot of disagreements here at PPP, I think there was broad agreement that QE2 wasn't going to impact the economy much. Unless there was some other unstated goal they were trying to achieve, it was a bad idea.
DrFishfinder Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 According to my friend that owns a gas station, though the rack price charged by the distributor changes daily, the station owner sets the pump price on his own after surveying what the nearby competitors are doing and where rack cost is headed. The distributor will assist the station owner in setting price if asked, but the owner has final say in retail price. Bingo. Gas prices are $.20 a gallon cheaper in Fort Lauderdale than in My Yami. The closer a gas station is to an interstate entrance/exit, the more expensive it is. Ditto for downtown or upscale communities. I drive 1/2 mile from where I live and gas prices are at least $.10 a gallon cheaper, usually more like $.15 - $.20 a gallon cheaper. Same gas.
Taro T Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Bingo. Gas prices are $.20 a gallon cheaper in Fort Lauderdale than in My Yami. The closer a gas station is to an interstate entrance/exit, the more expensive it is. Ditto for downtown or upscale communities. I drive 1/2 mile from where I live and gas prices are at least $.10 a gallon cheaper, usually more like $.15 - $.20 a gallon cheaper. Same gas. So the question then becomes, are 2 minutes out of your life worth the $1.20-$3 you save per fillup?
Booster4324 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 So the question then becomes, are 2 minutes out of your life worth the $1.20-$3 you save per fillup? That is essentially $36.00-$90.00 dollars an hour...
Magox Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 gas well into a 1,000 feet down... Still producing the needs for the Basillica, school, and others till this day. Baloney! The gas stations I am talking about sit right on both sides of the country line... Higher Cook county and lower Will county have no effect on it... Even in the rural sections. Now in corn country, it is lower... Ethanhol? Not wanting to incur the wrth of the farmers? What the hell are you rambling on about now mr. senile?
Taro T Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 That is essentially $36.00-$90.00 dollars an hour... Wow, you can multiply by 60. Who'd've thunk?
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 What the hell are you rambling on about now mr. senile? Nothing... Just rambling. Taxes and blends get the blame here and that is just not the reason. The reason is human greed and the distribution system in place. Just commenting on how consumers need some sort of "game changer" when dealing with the petrol distribution system/network. Consumers are most at the mercy of this system. Is there anyway around it? This system and its shocks effect so many other systems IMO, this system is the main reason our economy was pushed over the precipice a few years back. Bingo. Gas prices are $.20 a gallon cheaper in Fort Lauderdale than in My Yami. The closer a gas station is to an interstate entrance/exit, the more expensive it is. Ditto for downtown or upscale communities. I drive 1/2 mile from where I live and gas prices are at least $.10 a gallon cheaper, usually more like $.15 - $.20 a gallon cheaper. Same gas. Drive along a 80 mile stretch of I-57 in Illinois and it is 50-60 cents a gallon difference... And we are talking about rural counties and areas that are basically the same (not Cook county). Same gas. NOW: On the water, if you buy your gas for a boat... Say at a dock, it is standard that $1.00 to 1.50 more is charged more... I assume, for enviro reasons? How exactly does that regulatory situation work out? Different types of permits and delivery systems in place? Also: Diesel is 50 cents cheaper... And E-85 is about a buck cheaper... In "corn country", E-85 is just over 3 bucks a gallon.
DrFishfinder Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 So the question then becomes, are 2 minutes out of your life worth the $1.20-$3 you save per fillup? Since it's on my way, sure.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 So the question then becomes, are 2 minutes out of your life worth the $1.20-$3 you save per fillup? Depends what the mpg of the car is and the savings @ the pump... Right now, I suppose it is worth it (for me) to drive up to a 20 mile range for fuel. I can save about 10 bucks a fill-up even within a 5-10 mile range! Time is NOT an issue.
Taro T Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Depends what the mpg of the car is and the savings @ the pump... Right now, I suppose it is worth it (for me) to drive up to a 20 mile range for fuel. I can save about 10 bucks a fill-up even within a 5-10 mile range! Time is NOT an issue. You'll go 20 miles out of your way (10 out, 10 back) to save $10? So, apparently you aren't exaggerating when you state you don't put much value on your time.
Recommended Posts