pBills Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) More like $3.00-$3.25. But really, if you want to be "fair" about it and punish the people who are gouging the consumer most... But seriously...you're assuming prices need to be lower, which is quite frankly a breathtakingly asinine assumption for anyone who wants to promote a change over to cleaner but more expensive energy technology that can't even compete with current "inflated" oil and gas prices. People want gas prices to be lower...but increase taxes on it to fund alternative energy that can't compete with cheap gas...but your increased taxes can't increase the prices of gas? How the !@#$ is that supposed to work? More like? I know that in Maryland I am paying $3.89 per gallon... knocking off the State and Federal combined is 41.9¢ according to API (as of January 2011). Knocking it down to $3.48 per gallon. Again, not good enough. So if we're being fair Tom who is gauging the consumer the most? I'm not assuming, I know that prices need to be lower. Anyone with a half a brain knows that the rising cost of gas and diesel is affecting many industries. I am also NOT talking about Energy alternatives, drill baby drill or anything else... none of those options will do anything for the here and now. How does the government get the prices lower now? Edited April 22, 2011 by pBills
Chef Jim Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 More like? I know that in Maryland I am paying $3.89 per gallon... knocking off the State and Federal combined is 41.9¢ according to API (as of January 2011). Knocking it down to $3.48 per gallon. Again, not good enough. So if we're being fair Tom who is gauging the consumer the most? I'm not assuming, I know that prices need to be lower. Anyone with a half a brain knows that the rising cost of gas and diesel is affecting many industries. I am also NOT talking about Energy alternatives, drill baby drill or anything else... none of those options will do anything for the here and now. How does the government get the prices lower now? So what should the price of gas be and why?
pBills Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 So what should the price of gas be and why? Personally, I don't believe it should be up over $3.00 a gallon. I'd be happy/content if was around $2.50 or so. Looking back we went from right around a $1.00 around 9/11... spike was claimed to be because of the War, etc. and would eventually go down. Since then we've had Iraq War, Afghanistan, Katrina, Gulf Spill and now Libya. Are those events truly the cause or is it something else?
3rdnlng Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 10 years ago it was said that it would take 10 years to gain any benefit from granting new leases in ANWR.
/dev/null Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 That's what inflation does. But there is no inflation All Glory to The Benbernank
Chef Jim Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Personally, I don't believe it should be up over $3.00 a gallon. I'd be happy/content if was around $2.50 or so. Looking back we went from right around a $1.00 around 9/11... spike was claimed to be because of the War, etc. and would eventually go down. Since then we've had Iraq War, Afghanistan, Katrina, Gulf Spill and now Libya. Are those events truly the cause or is it something else? So the reason it should be $2.50 is because it used to be a $1.00?
pBills Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 So the reason it should be $2.50 is because it used to be a $1.00? No tool. I said I would be content with $2.50. Especially after paying $3.89. Such a moron.
DC Tom Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 More like? I know that in Maryland I am paying $3.89 per gallon... knocking off the State and Federal combined is 41.9¢ according to API (as of January 2011). Knocking it down to $3.48 per gallon. Again, not good enough. So if we're being fair Tom who is gauging the consumer the most? You're right...it's closer to 50 cents/a gallon in taxes. I was under the impression it was 75 or higher. Still...oil company profit on a gallon of gas is on the order of 10 cents. Government gets 50. Who's gouging the consumer? Clearly it must be corporate America... I'm not assuming, I know that prices need to be lower. Anyone with a half a brain knows that the rising cost of gas and diesel is affecting many industries. I am also NOT talking about Energy alternatives, drill baby drill or anything else... none of those options will do anything for the here and now. How does the government get the prices lower now? The government can cut gasoline taxes. Or - and here's a novel idea - the government can cut spending, lower the debt levels, and strengthen the dollar, which will lower the price of gasoline. Or - another novel idea - the price of gas can be set by the market at high levels corresponding to demand, thereby encouraging less gasoline use and investment in alternative energies. Or - an idea that's not novel, that I've been saying every spring for five years - gas prices ALWAYS spike in the spring, because they have to take infrastructure off-line to clean it for the summer ethanol blend. Personally, though...I'm happy with $5/gal gas. That's probably about where it should be.
Chef Jim Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 No tool. I said I would be content with $2.50. Especially after paying $3.89. Such a moron. You said you believe is shouldn't be above $3.00. What in the world are you basing that statement on?
TPS Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Speculators only temporarily drive up the price unless there are sufficient economic factors that sustain the prices at those supposedly inflated levels. The futures markets have been "financialized" so that anyone can bet on commodities now. This has increased volatility and created an upward bias in prices. We've gone through two speculative bubbles in the past 15 years, each of which lasted several years--dot.com and housing. Historically one could only bet on commodities by either buying and holding (precious metals mostly), buying stock in the companies that mine, produce them, or buying futures. It's changes in the latter where the problems have emerged. In the past, speculators were given position limits in order to ensure that the fundamentals determined prices. This is no longer the case. Now investment flows have overwhelmed the futures markets, and they no longer function as they were designed to--to allow producers and users of commodities to hedge against price movements. Swaps allow big institutional investors to bet on commodities and ETFs allow anyone to bet on commodities, mostly on price increases. The flow of money into ETFs has increased by about 150%/year since early 2000s. So most of the futures contracts being created support these "speculative investments." The real users of commodities have little impact on futures prices now. So what you have, as I stated, people can buy shares (ETFs) of commodity bets, traded like stock, the value of which is determined by futures contracts, other pieces of paper that imply investors taking delivery of a good, but never have to because they offset and roll the contract as they expire. For most commodities now the value of futures contracts taking delivery represent, in some cases, a years supply of product--and these are monthly or quarterly volumes. The financial flows overwhelm the real underlying demand. I would argue that we need to end these hew types of investments that use futures contracts as their underlying value. I don't care about traditional speculators in the futures markets who are subject to position limits--these new products aren't. Thats' the problem. And it is all commodities, not just oil, as they invest in indexes. It's a bubble, and it will last as long as you allow average retail investors to make bets on futures instead of the underlying stocks of companines that produce the things. I dont' care if they push up stock prices, but when you push up the price of the things we eat, then it's a problem....
Peace Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Personally, I don't believe it should be up over $3.00 a gallon. I'd be happy/content if was around $2.50 or so. Looking back we went from right around a $1.00 around 9/11... spike was claimed to be because of the War, etc. and would eventually go down. Since then we've had Iraq War, Afghanistan, Katrina, Gulf Spill and now Libya. Are those events truly the cause or is it something else? I don't believe my car should cost $53,000. I'd be happy and content if it was about $21,000. WHO WILL FIX THIS?!?!?
Chef Jim Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 I don't believe my car should cost $53,000. I'd be happy and content if it was about $21,000. WHO WILL FIX THIS?!?!? But you don't have to pay $53,000 or your car but I have to pay $4.25 for gas.....in 3......2......1........
Rob's House Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 You're right...it's closer to 50 cents/a gallon in taxes. I was under the impression it was 75 or higher. Still...oil company profit on a gallon of gas is on the order of 10 cents. Government gets 50. Who's gouging the consumer? Clearly it must be corporate America... The government can cut gasoline taxes. Or - and here's a novel idea - the government can cut spending, lower the debt levels, and strengthen the dollar, which will lower the price of gasoline. Or - another novel idea - the price of gas can be set by the market at high levels corresponding to demand, thereby encouraging less gasoline use and investment in alternative energies. Or - an idea that's not novel, that I've been saying every spring for five years - gas prices ALWAYS spike in the spring, because they have to take infrastructure off-line to clean it for the summer ethanol blend. Personally, though...I'm happy with $5/gal gas. That's probably about where it should be. Why?
IDBillzFan Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 So what should the price of gas be and why? It should be free to everyone except "millionaires" who earn over $200,000/year. They should pay $176.99/gallon. Because they can afford it.
DC Tom Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Why? Seems to me that's about the "pain" point where people's consumption habits really start changing, and roughly the price point where implementing alternatives starts being cost-effective. Bottom line is that Americans sooner or later are going to have to face the fact that there's no "right" to cheap gasoline, as pBills wants to imply. It's only going to be more painful, the longer we wait. It should be free to everyone except "millionaires" who earn over $200,000/year. They should pay $176.99/gallon. Because they can afford it. And union folk should be guaranteed gasoline for life, even after they stop driving.
Rob's House Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Seems to me that's about the "pain" point where people's consumption habits really start changing, and roughly the price point where implementing alternatives starts being cost-effective. Bottom line is that Americans sooner or later are going to have to face the fact that there's no "right" to cheap gasoline, as pBills wants to imply. It's only going to be more painful, the longer we wait. I'm surprised to hear this coming from you. Sure, at some point there might well be a strain on global petroleum resources, but that day is a ways on down the road. Why wouldn't it make sense to allow these alternatives to evolve gradually according to real market values rather than manipulating those values to necessitate "innovation" at great expense to the population before it's necessary?
/dev/null Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 but increase taxes on it to fund alternative energy that can't compete with cheap gas...but your increased taxes can't increase the prices of gas? And then when alternative energy comes along, like say electric cars, what will the gov't do to offset the lost revenue from people not paying gas taxes? Why tax the electric car of course! Oh wait, I'm sorry it's not a tax. It's a fee http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_electric_car_fees
whateverdude Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) That's what inflation does. No thats what our gov't is doing with QE2 Demand?? Oil is priced in dollars! Stop QE and the oil speculation will go away, the dollar will rise and oil will be slightly cheaper for us. There is plenty of supply. Indian and china demand will keep it high but not this high. Edited April 25, 2011 by whateverdude
Recommended Posts