thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Drew Brees was a 59% passer during his first 3 seasons before the light really went on for him. Drew Brees was a mediocre QB before he became drew brees, hence the drafting of Philip Rivers. Do me a favor...look at fitz's last 3 seasons (since he barely played during his 1st 3). Tell me what would your opinion be of a QB who put up those numbers after being drafted in 2008. To me, it looks like a QB on the rise who has finally started to "get it". Can't dispute the facts Ramius...however, I'd still take a QB in this draft if I felt he could be a franchise guy. I'm not going to mistake optimism regarding Fitz for certainty, as I'm sure you wouldn't either. Also, remember that Fitz is in the last year of his contract.
Billsfan369 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Drew Brees was a 59% passer during his first 3 seasons before the light really went on for him. Drew Brees was a mediocre QB before he became drew brees, hence the drafting of Philip Rivers. Do me a favor...look at fitz's last 3 seasons (since he barely played during his 1st 3). Tell me what would your opinion be of a QB who put up those numbers after being drafted in 2008. To me, it looks like a QB on the rise who has finally started to "get it". Andrew lUCK WILL BE THERE NEXT YEAR FOR US lETS GET D-lINE FIXED AN o-lINE HELP AN WORRY ABOUT qb STUFF NEXT YEAR
bigc14120 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 We need to draft a QB who will benefit from a couple of years on the bench behind Fitz (ala Aaron rodgers, but only two, not three years on the bench) Ricky Stanzi is not the big name discussed on this board (Iowa) But, I saw him throw 4 ints, and then 5 td's in the same game for Iowa to win, and I thought he was very "Kelly like" in the way he handles himself. QB is all about the head.....Stanzi has it, never stops chucking no matter what and believes. Losman didn't have the head, just the arm. Stanzi can be a lower round pickukp and fix that attrocious defense first.
thebug Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Oh yeah....I am warming up to Fitz as a leader, but I don't see him as being the long term solution for the Bills. I think we draft a QB this year for him to groom for a couple of years and then his is back to being the back-up.
thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Andrew lUCK WILL BE THERE NEXT YEAR FOR US lETS GET D-lINE FIXED AN o-lINE HELP AN WORRY ABOUT qb STUFF NEXT YEAR Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd prefer not to finish 1-15 this year. Even if we do address the lines, there's no guarantee that (1) there will even be a draft next year (no CBA), (2) we'll have the No. 1 overall pick next year if there is a draft, and (3) Luck will declare for the draft (remember, he'll only be a red-shirt junior).
jumbalaya Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 That's what I've been saying. The Bills currently have 7 WR's (sorry Felton Huggins and Paul Hubbard) and will likely keep only 6. Having Nelson bulk-up and move to TE would be the ideal move. I don't know how he is as a blocker, but he's a good receiver and he's got the height for it. As for Easley, I keep forgetting about him. I like the receiving corps as it is, but if he develops, it's like found money. It is time to replace Lee, I hope Easley puts the slug out to pasture.
H2o Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 My question about this is where are Lee Evans, Shawn Nelson, and C.J. Spiller? How does this show on their part? I know people have things to do, but it seems like all of these other guys are the ones making the effort.
1billsfan Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Oh yeah....I am warming up to Fitz as a leader, but I don't see him as being the long term solution for the Bills. I think we draft a QB this year for him to groom for a couple of years and then his is back to being the back-up. That ship has sailed brotha. Fitzpatrick has cemented himself as a starting QB in this league. He's in the last year of his contract. If the Bills do draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round next week, Fitzpatrick's going to one of these teams as a starter in 2012…Miami, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Tennessee, Arizona, Washington, San Francisco, Seattle or Oakland. It amazes me that Bills fans still see him as a backup player, or that he would still see himself as one and agree to stay in Buffalo as a back up! Are you for real? This guy grew into a real NFL starter and leader last season. As you see, the NFL has a whole lot of teams who can only wish they had Ryan Fitzpatrick as their starter. I realize that he still has to prove it in 2011, but I really think he does prove it and become our franchise QB. If they can figure out the defensive front seven quick enough, I think they can even make the playoffs this year. Edited April 21, 2011 by 1billsfan
Cash Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd prefer not to finish 1-15 this year. Even if we do address the lines, there's no guarantee that (1) there will even be a draft next year (no CBA), (2) we'll have the No. 1 overall pick next year if there is a draft, and (3) Luck will declare for the draft (remember, he'll only be a red-shirt junior). 1) Yeah, technically, but the draft makes a ton of money, and neither side has discussed eliminating it. Even if the season gets canceled, there will almost certainly be some sort of college draft before the 2012 season is played. 2) Yes, big time. In fact, the more we address the lines this year, the less likely we are to stink enough to get Luck. And I'm with you on not wanting to go 1-15 next year, anyway. 3) Meh. In the classroom, Luck is a rising senior, and will graduate next year. I guess he could decide getting a Master's is worth putting off the NFL for one more year, but I don't really see that happening.
Astrobot Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 We forget that right before the Ravens game last year, Fitz was 2nd in the league in passer rating, behind only Peyton Manning. 2010 Passer Rating Leaders Player Rating Peyton Manning (IND) 103.4 Ryan Fitzpatrick (BUF) 102.0 Vince Young (TEN) 98.8 Philip Rivers (SD) 97.8 Tom Brady (NE) 96.0 Tony Romo (DAL) 94.9 Matt Schaub (HOU) 93.0 Kyle Orton (DEN) 92.1 Matt Cassel (KC) 91.5 Drew Brees (NO) 91.4
thebug Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 That ship has sailed brotha. Fitzpatrick has cemented himself as a starting QB in this league. He's in the last year of his contract. If the Bills do draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round next week, Fitzpatrick's going to one of these teams as a starter in 2012…Miami, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Tennessee, Arizona, Washington, San Francisco, Seattle or Oakland. It amazes me that Bills fans still see him as a backup player, or that he would still see himself as one and agree to stay in Buffalo as a back up! Are you for real? This guy grew into a real NFL starter and leader last season. As you see, the NFL has a whole lot of teams who can only wish they had Ryan Fitzpatrick as their starter. I realize that he still has to prove it in 2011, but I really think he does prove it and become our franchise QB. If they can figure out the defensive front seven quick enough, I think they can even make the playoffs this year. Sure he may go to one of those teams and they will continue to be mediocre with him as a starter and the minute he slips up he will be back on the bench, replaced by that teams next franchise QB. Just don't see the great upside to this guy. Still WAY too many boneheaded throws directly at the defender or way off the mark. He's a chucker for sure, but that will only get you so far. I like his leadership and I am ok with the Bills sticking with him for now because he is the best we have, but I don't think we are going anywhere with him. Hope he proves me wrong. Right now he is the starter for a 4-12 football team. His career as a starter is far from cemented. Like I said I hope he proves me wrong.
We B 4 Da Billz Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Then he is doing what is expected and what it takes to bring a team together, that's called leadership my friend, someone has to be the glue, it's not a matter of expectations, it's more like he wants to do whatever he can to help the team, and as far as Lee and C.J. go, don't read anything into that, they might not have been able to be there for numerous reasons. Let's just hope the defense starts doing this too ! When I first became aware of Camp Fitz vis Twitter from all the Bills Players I follow, I was excited and happy by the efforts. Leadership, Unity, and Shared passion came to mind. But then I saw that almost all teams have a group of players doing this right now which leads me to believe that the Players Union is behind it in some way. I don't really care what the initial reasons for organizing the workouts were - It's a good thing. Fitz Impressed me last year. The Guy is smart and Gritty, He's going to improve. He looks as good or better than we've had in the last 10 years, so give him a chance and all the tools for success - (Offensive protection, Weapons, and Plays that maximize the strengths of the players). I think we'll all be happy a few years from now.
K Gun Special Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Drew Brees was a 59% passer during his first 3 seasons before the light really went on for him. Drew Brees was a mediocre QB before he became drew brees, hence the drafting of Philip Rivers. Do me a favor...look at fitz's last 3 seasons (since he barely played during his 1st 3). Tell me what would your opinion be of a QB who put up those numbers after being drafted in 2008. To me, it looks like a QB on the rise who has finally started to "get it". THats misleading. If you dont include the 1 game he played in 2001, just like you fail to include Fitz's 2005 Rams stats, and we just take each players first three seasons of play... it looks far different Brees - 38 games 61.3 comp %, 55 TDs 38 Ints Fitz- 33 games 57.7 comp %, 40 TDs 36 Ints. They are not the same, this is even with years of extra experience under Fitz's belt before the 33 games cited above. Brees has had one season ever where he failed to reach 60% completion, something Fitz hasnt done yet. Fitz is decent, but he is not accurate enough to take this team to the next level.
KOKBILLS Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Drew Brees was a 59% passer during his first 3 seasons before the light really went on for him. Drew Brees was a mediocre QB before he became drew brees, hence the drafting of Philip Rivers. Do me a favor...look at fitz's last 3 seasons (since he barely played during his 1st 3). Tell me what would your opinion be of a QB who put up those numbers after being drafted in 2008. To me, it looks like a QB on the rise who has finally started to "get it". We'll see...I'm not going to try to hide the fact that I'm not a big believer in Fitz cause I'm not...Too many INT's and forcing the ball in...The ball slipping out of his hand stuff...He should have had a few more TD's last year but by all rights he also should have had a few more INT's...He's fearless but a little too fearless at times......I wish he was a couple inches taller, etc...Same stuff most Fitz critics will say... But IF The Bills go the Fitz route I sure as hell hope he does continue to improve and becomes the next Brees...That would truly be awesome...But I'm not counting on it...In fact I think it will end up being somewhere in the middle...He may improve some, but not enough to get The Bills where they need to go...And in a couple years he'll be gone, or the back-up...But we'll see I guess...If they take Miller over Gabbert that is showing a tremendous amount of confidence in Fitz...We'll see next Thurs...
1billsfan Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 THats misleading. If you dont include the 1 game he played in 2001, just like you fail to include Fitz's 2005 Rams stats, and we just take each players first three seasons of play... it looks far different Brees - 38 games 61.3 comp %, 55 TDs 38 Ints Fitz- 33 games 57.7 comp %, 40 TDs 36 Ints. They are not the same, this is even with years of extra experience under Fitz's belt before the 33 games cited above. Brees has had one season ever where he failed to reach 60% completion, something Fitz hasnt done yet. Fitz is decent, but he is not accurate enough to take this team to the next level. 4% in completion points is not that big of a difference. You should also factor in that Brees had the running threat of LaDainian Tomlinson in combination with the TE Gates. I'm not saying he's as good as Brees, but he's on the same career path. Last year was an awakening for Fitzpatrick and I can't wait to see if he does indeed become a top 10 franchise type QB in 2011.
K Gun Special Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 4% in completion points is not that big of a difference. You should also factor in that Brees had the running threat of LaDainian Tomlinson in combination with the TE Gates. I'm not saying he's as good as Brees, but he's on the same career path. Last year was an awakening for Fitzpatrick and I can't wait to see if he does indeed become a top 10 franchise type QB in 2011. Right, Brees did have an increased threat of running, but those touches also depressed his stats a little whereas Fitz had no running game at all. My point is they are nowhere near the same career path. Fitz is going into his 7th year in the league and 4th as a regular QB. He isnt going to turn into a franchise QB somehow. I am glad he is taking charge and having offseason workouts with the O but lets not kid ourselves and think this isnt something other guys are doing. Its what you are supposed to do!
KOKBILLS Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 That ship has sailed brotha. Fitzpatrick has cemented himself as a starting QB in this league. He's in the last year of his contract. If the Bills do draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round next week, Fitzpatrick's going to one of these teams as a starter in 2012…Miami, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Tennessee, Arizona, Washington, San Francisco, Seattle or Oakland. It amazes me that Bills fans still see him as a backup player, or that he would still see himself as one and agree to stay in Buffalo as a back up! Are you for real? This guy grew into a real NFL starter and leader last season. As you see, the NFL has a whole lot of teams who can only wish they had Ryan Fitzpatrick as their starter. I realize that he still has to prove it in 2011, but I really think he does prove it and become our franchise QB. If they can figure out the defensive front seven quick enough, I think they can even make the playoffs this year. No offense to you, but some Bills Fans still see him as a back-up caliber Player because so do NFL experts and Hall Of Fame caliber Players. Some of whom who PLAYED against Fitz...Did you see what Willie McGinest and Trent Green said just last night on NFL Network about Fitz? And none of these ex-players are taking anything away from what Fitz did last year...They admit he played very well at times...McGinest said he's not a bad QB at all...But as a Franchise/Face of the Organization QB...Not so much... McGinest said "You're talking about who you are going to put your Franchise behind, and it's not Ryan Fitzpatrick...I like the guy, I played against him, I think he's a good Player...But I don't think The Bills are ready to say hey, we're going to open the gates, put everything behind you...You have two talented guys in the Draft that can change that...That the Bills can be proud of...It's a QB driven league...I think they want to go with somebody that is going to get everyone excited. And that's a big time QB...That's one of these guys coming out in the Draft..." McGinest and Green were referring to Newton and Gabbert btw... I saw it written here numerous times by Bills fans that the Presser was indication enough that The Bills would not take a QB at #3...The guys on the NFL Network completely disagreed with that and took the opposite stance...The comment by Buddy about this being the right time to take a QB was proof enough for them...Why? Because they don't believe The Bills have a Franchise QB...They don't believe in Fitz...Almost no one outside of Buffalo does...I've seen Deion Sanders and others on the NFL Network laugh when posed with the Fitz question...They LAUGH!!! Now granted all these "experts" could be wrong...But I'm telling you there is almost no one outside of some Bills Fans and some Folks over at OBD that believe Fitz is a long term solution at Starting QB for ANY NFL Team...So don't just point to Bills Fans because it's not just Bills Fans...It's the CLEAR majority of Folks who get paid to cover NFL Football as well...And I imagine it's those opinions that are shaping some Bills Fans' opinions...
dpberr Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 My question about this is where are Lee Evans, Shawn Nelson, and C.J. Spiller? How does this show on their part? I know people have things to do, but it seems like all of these other guys are the ones making the effort. Hell, the whole offense should be there.
1billsfan Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Right, Brees did have an increased threat of running, but those touches also depressed his stats a little whereas Fitz had no running game at all. My point is they are nowhere near the same career path. Fitz is going into his 7th year in the league and 4th as a regular QB. He isnt going to turn into a franchise QB somehow. I am glad he is taking charge and having offseason workouts with the O but lets not kid ourselves and think this isnt something other guys are doing. Its what you are supposed to do! How does running back touches depress completion percentage stats? They don't, and when you have a great RB threat like LaDainian, those touches are likely to increase completion percentage on play action passes. That's probably what San Diego fans were saying. There are plenty of guys who didn't have "it" till later on like Kurt Warner, Rich Gannon, and yes, Drew Brees. No offense to you, but some Bills Fans still see him as a back-up caliber Player because so do NFL experts and Hall Of Fame caliber Players. Some of whom who PLAYED against Fitz...Did you see what Willie McGinest and Trent Green said just last night on NFL Network about Fitz? And none of these ex-players are taking anything away from what Fitz did last year...They admit he played very well at times...McGinest said he's not a bad QB at all...But as a Franchise/Face of the Organization QB...Not so much... McGinest said "You're talking about who you are going to put your Franchise behind, and it's not Ryan Fitzpatrick...I like the guy, I played against him, I think he's a good Player...But I don't think The Bills are ready to say hey, we're going to open the gates, put everything behind you...You have two talented guys in the Draft that can change that...That the Bills can be proud of...It's a QB driven league...I think they want to go with somebody that is going to get everyone excited. And that's a big time QB...That's one of these guys coming out in the Draft..." McGinest and Green were referring to Newton and Gabbert btw... I saw it written here numerous times by Bills fans that the Presser was indication enough that The Bills would not take a QB at #3...The guys on the NFL Network completely disagreed with that and took the opposite stance...The comment by Buddy about this being the right time to take a QB was proof enough for them...Why? Because they don't believe The Bills have a Franchise QB...They don't believe in Fitz...Almost no one outside of Buffalo does...I've seen Deion Sanders and others on the NFL Network laugh when posed with the Fitz question...They LAUGH!!! Now granted all these "experts" could be wrong...But I'm telling you there is almost no one outside of some Bills Fans and some Folks over at OBD that believe Fitz is a long term solution at Starting QB for ANY NFL Team...So don't just point to Bills Fans because it's not just Bills Fans...It's the CLEAR majority of Folks who get paid to cover NFL Football as well...And I imagine it's those opinions that are shaping some Bills Fans' opinions... Oh please, I saw that. Those two former players no NOTHING about our team. I'll bet you that they didn't even watch us play last season. The fact that they see Blaine Gabbert (btw, they didn't even mention anyone, including Von Miller, in the whole piece) as a "no brainer" pick tells you all you need to know about their "sage" advice for our team. Gabbert was a deer in headlights in college, there's no way we take a QB like Gabbert after what we endured with Edwards and Losman. I was literally laughing at them! Edited April 21, 2011 by 1billsfan
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