Nawrocki on Ralph

[Rubes]

While I don't really know if RW makes the final pick, here is my problem with some of what you said and most of what BillsVet always posts.

- If RW makes picks that increase profits, how is drafting Lynch or DBs consistent with that thought ? I think QBs, WRs are 'star' picks that draw everyone's attention

- If, as you stated, Levy/Jauron influenced the Whitner, McKelvin picks it implies that RW doesn't call the shots for first picks

- I don't see how Spiller would have been thought of as a ticket seller either. I don't think ticket sales last year were any significantly better than in previous years after a losing season. Bills fans have always bought tickets and I don't think sales would have been much different if we had picked a lineman instead of Spiller.

 

Hence, I am not totally convinced that RW calls the shots. The problem is that, this year, even if Nix, Whaley and Gailey think that a QB is worth picking high, it will only serve tp re-inforce the conspiracy theorists' conviction that RW makes the first pick.

 

+1

[Nanker]

I almost completely agree with this. I'm not sure even Mr. Wilson would be stupid enough to select Whitner in a draft that was absolutely stacked with high quality players at positions of desperate need for the Bills. Same with McKelvin.

 

Imo, Mr. Wilson trusted Marv. and his loser protege Jauron. These guys believed that the way to win in Buffalo was to stock the team with DBs, special teams, and small players. They didn't believe in aggressive, attack style football, and even had Schobel, a very good pass rusher, covering tight ends. There was no chance of these 2 inferior football men building a winning team, and I mean none at all.

 

Mr. Wislon steps in when it's time to increase profits, thus the selections of players such as Lynch and most of all Spiller. This year, he actually ordered staff to scout qbs specifically. Does anyone think that Mr. Wilson would squander away money like this for no reason? Say what you will about his skills wrt building a winning team, but this man would earn a ton of money if he was 192 years old. A QB, even if he sits initially, will sell tickets. And, QBs get hurt. The kid would see playing time. Or, Mr. Wilson could simply order the coach to put him in.

 

Btw, as weird as this probably reads, I like it better than drafting the best DB available. At least with Nix/Gailey there would seem to be a chance for the Bills to not suck at some point.

 

 

While I don't really know if RW makes the final pick, here is my problem with some of what you said and most of what BillsVet always posts.

- If RW makes picks that increase profits, how is drafting Lynch or DBs consistent with that thought ? I think QBs, WRs are 'star' picks that draw everyone's attention

- If, as you stated, Levy/Jauron influenced the Whitner, McKelvin picks it implies that RW doesn't call the shots for first picks

- I don't see how Spiller would have been thought of as a ticket seller either. I don't think ticket sales last year were any significantly better than in previous years after a losing season. Bills fans have always bought tickets and I don't think sales would have been much different if we had picked a lineman instead of Spiller.

 

Hence, I am not totally convinced that RW calls the shots. The problem is that, this year, even if Nix, Whaley and Gailey think that a QB is worth picking high, it will only serve tp re-inforce the conspiracy theorists' conviction that RW makes the first pick.

I don't believe I'm a "conspiracy theorist" because I think that the sole owner of the franchise is stubborn enough to want to make the first pick each year. To me it explains why we got Poz and Maybin - Ralph loves Penn State and there's a significant PS following amongst Bills fans. He also began to slow down and relied on his trust in Levy and by extension (as his daily geritol dosage increased) Jauron that Safeties and Punt Returners would add big playmaking and excitement to his team. Remember Levy in explaining the Donte pick - "every SB champion in recent history has a dominant SS." Marv was stuck in time when the players were smaller. The fact of the matter is, as Bill from NYC has mentioned time and time again - The Bills are small and weak. We're never going to win consistently until we get big and strong... ON THE LINES. We're lucky that Ralph is slowing down. There are better minds in the FO now than there were during the previous regime.

 

Again, I think that Mr. Wilson gave Levy lots of room because he trusted him, and because of this he trusted Jauron.

As for Spiller, he was featured in ads for season ticket sales, and Ralph said that the team needed more "excitement." And remember, if Spiller had played well, he would have sold tickets. Of course, he was a lousy player and this did not come to pass.

I blame Chaney for blowing in Nix's ear on that one. That might have convinced him to go along with Ralphie instead of lobbying for and going with a big guy.

 

This Draft - and likely what happens with our pick at #3 will define Nix's career here as GM. I think Newton's got the brains of a running back. I think he's years away from being able to handle the play calling in an NFL game. Watch Gruden's QB Camp interview with him on ESPN and if you come away with a high impression of his play calling capabilities, please let me know that I'm all wet. I'd love to hear it. To me, if they can't get Gabbert, I do think they'll take Miller - who will likely have a better year than Merriman and, dare I say it - Maybin, but neither one takes us a giant step in the direction of getting really bigger and stronger, although they both have big potential. I'd prefer they take Dareus. Miller would likely give us more pressure on QBs, which is an aching concern. However, I'm not convinced he's much of a run stopper.

[Kelly the Dog]

Wilson also gave complete reigns over to Donohoe for those five years. It made him more likely to call the shots himself in the years since then because he hated the fact he gave TD all that power and didn't get rewarded for it, but it also shoots the theory that Wilson has been making all the picks all these years. I guarantee you Ralph didn't make most of the #1 picks in the 50 years. I'm sure he was in on the discussions, and that he HAD to sign off on the pick, but a lot of the years he had people he liked and trusted, and I bet he even let Polian call almost all of the shots on the first round picks when he and Levy were around. It could easily be that, for instance, the GM and coach and head scout have narrowed it down to two players, perhaps even in the Lynch case, and then Ralph will say he likes Lynch, or something similar. But no way do his GMs and coaches and scouts say they like a player and Ralph comes in and says no, I want this guy instead and they take him.

[Coach Tuesday]

Wilson also gave complete reigns over to Donohoe for those five years. It made him more likely to call the shots himself in the years since then because he hated the fact he gave TD all that power and didn't get rewarded for it, but it also shoots the theory that Wilson has been making all the picks all these years. I guarantee you Ralph didn't make most of the #1 picks in the 50 years. I'm sure he was in on the discussions, and that he HAD to sign off on the pick, but a lot of the years he had people he liked and trusted, and I bet he even let Polian call almost all of the shots on the first round picks when he and Levy were around. It could easily be that, for instance, the GM and coach and head scout have narrowed it down to two players, perhaps even in the Lynch case, and then Ralph will say he likes Lynch, or something similar. But no way do his GMs and coaches and scouts say they like a player and Ralph comes in and says no, I want this guy instead and they take him.

 

I'm not sure we need to wrestle to the ground whether Ralph makes ALL of the picks. Nolan's point is that when it comes to an important pick like this year's #3, Ralph is likely to weigh in (based on emotion, ticket sales, etc.) and advocate (demand?) that a franchise QB be picked. That's what Bill has been predicting will happen, and I'm starting to agree.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm not sure we need to wrestle to the ground whether Ralph makes ALL of the picks. Nolan's point is that when it comes to an important pick like this year's #3, Ralph is likely to weigh in (based on emotion, ticket sales, etc.) and advocate (demand?) that a franchise QB be picked. That's what Bill has been predicting will happen, and I'm starting to agree.

 

Thank you. I am in no way stating that he made each and every first round pick, and tried to explain this numerous times in this very thread.

[thebandit27]

I'm not sure we need to wrestle to the ground whether Ralph makes ALL of the picks. Nolan's point is that when it comes to an important pick like this year's #3, Ralph is likely to weigh in (based on emotion, ticket sales, etc.) and advocate (demand?) that a franchise QB be picked. That's what Bill has been predicting will happen, and I'm starting to agree.

 

 

Thank you. I am in no way stating that he made each and every first round pick, and tried to explain this numerous times in this very thread.

 

If Ralph were going to do that, why bother hiring a guy he trusts in Buddy Nix? I have no doubt that Ralph has his preferences, and I have no doubt he'll make them known to Nix. I don't, however, think that he'll demand a certain player or position at the No. 3 pick.

 

If Buffalo drafts Gabbert, I whole-heartedly believe it'll be because Nix and Gailey believe he can become a top-tier QB in the NFL, and if they believe that, then they're 100% right to draft him. Call me naive if you'd like, but--with all due respect--the point that other poster(s) made regarding the top picks of the last 10 years really flies in the face of the "Ralph only cares about selling tickets" argument.

 

Ralph isn't stupid, he knows that a winning team is going to sell more tickets long-term than a flashy player. If you believe that making money is his top priority, wouldn't it be a lot wiser to just do what's in the best interest of the football team?

 

I have little doubt that that's what the organization is trying to do, has been trying to do, and will continue to try to do. The fact that they've failed miserably in the last decade doesn't make me question their motivation.

 

Just my 1 cent.

[Fan in Chicago]

Again, I think that Mr. Wilson gave Levy lots of room because he trusted him, and because of this he trusted Jauron.

As for Spiller, he was featured in ads for season ticket sales, and Ralph said that the team needed more "excitement." And remember, if Spiller had played well, he would have sold tickets. Of course, he was a lousy player and this did not come to pass.

 

I am of the opinion that winning can create much more of a long term excitement than a single handed spectacular TD catch by itself. And we have always been in agreement that this kind of sustained winning comes from building from the trenches outward. I was just saying that RW while could have been an influencer, could not by himself have been the driving force behind the # 1 picks. In a way, blaming Ralph almost absolves the incompetence of TD, Levy, Jauron etc. Much of the failure of the franchise to build and maintain a winning team is due to poor drafting and the GMs have to shoulder more blame than RW. (yea RW is responsible for picking said GMs anyway)

In any case, I don't think we disagree much and where we do, I am fine letting it go (primarily because I am not a wrestler )

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm not sure we need to wrestle to the ground whether Ralph makes ALL of the picks. Nolan's point is that when it comes to an important pick like this year's #3, Ralph is likely to weigh in (based on emotion, ticket sales, etc.) and advocate (demand?) that a franchise QB be picked. That's what Bill has been predicting will happen, and I'm starting to agree.

Of course he weighs in. He weighs in every single year, and whomever is the GM is very aware of it, and how much power Ralph's opinions have. My point is that there have been 50 first round draft picks and probably 25 different scenarios on how the collective Bills management team including Ralph got to that decision. There are some years where Ralph completely stayed out of it, some where he may have made a decision between one or two players, some where he made his opinion known and it held a lot of weight when the GM ultimately made the pick, some where he stepped in and said "I want this guy" of the three at the top of our list, and maybe one or two where he just stepped in and said, "of all the players left, I want this guy" against the GM's wishes. I doubt that has happened much, if ever. The concept of "Ralph making the pick" could mean completely different things to different people.

 

It's not a science. When you have pick #12, and 11 players have been chosen before you which have been eliminated, there is a possibility of any of the next, say, five players ranked on your list depending on the position they play. Every single pick is an argument over best player available versus best player available of an essential position versus best player available at a position of need. Then Ralph may step in and say I want the RB out of the top three players left at the top of the board that includes a RB, and CB and OG or whatever, when there is very little difference in their grades by the scouts and coached and GM. That really isn't Ralph overruling anyone. It's very rare when there is an obvious clear cut choice on a team's board, especially because scouts, coaches, and GMs, as well as owners are very confident opinionated people, so they all have their favorites but they know they are as wrong as they are right about these guys.

 

This year, for example, IMO, there is ZERO chance that if Nix and Gailey don't think Newton is a good choice at #3 at all, and don't think he will be a franchise QB in this league, Ralph will overrule them and demand they pick him because he likes Newton and he wants him. No chance that happens. But there is a VERY GOOD chance that if Nix and Gailey like Newton a lot but are not fully convinced he should be their pick, and are leaning toward taking a DL instead, that Ralph will say you guys like Newton a lot, take him, I think it's best for the franchise. That may be Ralph making the pick and stepping in, but it's not overruling his guys. It's just him making the final decision on a player his GM and coach loves, just isn't sure he is the very best pick because we have a lot of holes.

[papazoid]

if i was buddy nix.....i would have a sit down with ralph and go over my big board BEFORE the draft.....at least nail down the top 3 players in order, so that when the bills are on the clock, there is no second guessing or looking to ralph for any kind of input or meddling.

 

Here's Mike Mayocks Big Board: (i would be thrilled with all 3)

 

1. Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama

He is my favorite player in the country this year, and that hasn't changed. He has tremendous foot speed for a player his size. He can play the nose, the three-technique and showed that he can play the five-technique. From my perspective, I don't think he can possibly get past Denver at No. 2.

 

2. Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M

He's a special guy off the edge and reminds me an awful lot of DeMarcus Ware that way. However, he's not as big, so therefore won't generate quite as much power.

 

 

3. Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU

A lot of people think he might be the best player in this draft, and he might be. He has the return skills of a man 40 pounds smaller than he is. He has the ability to move, to press, to play off. He's a little tight in the hips, but I don't care. He's a great football player.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f19e10/article/defense-still-rules-top-32-but-with-a-few-fresh-faces-included

Edited April 21, 2011 by papazoid

[Ramius]

While I don't really know if RW makes the final pick, here is my problem with some of what you said and most of what BillsVet always posts.

- If RW makes picks that increase profits, how is drafting Lynch or DBs consistent with that thought ? I think QBs, WRs are 'star' picks that draw everyone's attention

- If, as you stated, Levy/Jauron influenced the Whitner, McKelvin picks it implies that RW doesn't call the shots for first picks

- I don't see how Spiller would have been thought of as a ticket seller either. I don't think ticket sales last year were any significantly better than in previous years after a losing season. Bills fans have always bought tickets and I don't think sales would have been much different if we had picked a lineman instead of Spiller.

 

Hence, I am not totally convinced that RW calls the shots. The problem is that, this year, even if Nix, Whaley and Gailey think that a QB is worth picking high, it will only serve tp re-inforce the conspiracy theorists' conviction that RW makes the first pick.

 

Great post!

[BillsVet]

While I don't really know if RW makes the final pick, here is my problem with some of what you said and most of what BillsVet always posts.

- If RW makes picks that increase profits, how is drafting Lynch or DBs consistent with that thought ? I think QBs, WRs are 'star' picks that draw everyone's attention

- If, as you stated, Levy/Jauron influenced the Whitner, McKelvin picks it implies that RW doesn't call the shots for first picks

- I don't see how Spiller would have been thought of as a ticket seller either. I don't think ticket sales last year were any significantly better than in previous years after a losing season. Bills fans have always bought tickets and I don't think sales would have been much different if we had picked a lineman instead of Spiller.

 

Hence, I am not totally convinced that RW calls the shots. The problem is that, this year, even if Nix, Whaley and Gailey think that a QB is worth picking high, it will only serve tp re-inforce the conspiracy theorists' conviction that RW makes the first pick.

 

I think RW trusts Nix, but as an owner (in concert with senior finance types) he's looking at the team marketability factor as well. Buddy Nix, OTOH, is a scout who's looking at the players probably without the thought of marketing the team.

 

This is not an argument based in absolutes, as is so often portrayed by RW apologists, but somewhere in between. This time, with the 3rd overall pick, I'd trust Nix before RW because I do not agree that they have to take a QB like the owner does. And if Nix takes a QB, there'll be suspicion that RW influenced the pick. Based on the owner's personnel moves like ordering RJ to start in the MCM game and signing TO, can anyone blame those people for thinking that?

 

It's ironic on TBD that many drown out the voices who believe the origin of most problems at OBD is the owner. The record speaks for itself, and I'll refrain from listing it. But as much as it's wrong to say "RW makes all the picks" it's also incorrect to mention that RW allows his people do the jobs they're hired for. After all, he admitted the drafting is terrible and did nothing about it save hiring Nix who was not allowed/did not re-order a scouting department which consistently failed going back to 2002.

[Pilsner]

I'm not sure about the past but in the Nix era I think Buddy will make the pick with Gailey and Whaley's input. These men want to win and win badly. Nix has the balls to tell Ralph to back off if it comes to that and let football men do their jobs.

 

Of course telling your boss to back off can cost a man his job. He can also let Ralph make the pick and continue the Bills futility. Something tells me Buddy is not into futility and he'll put his foot down if need be.

[OldTimer1960]

I know he backpedaled a little bit, probably because he was learned by Buddy that tipping your hand 6 months prior to the NFL draft is uncouth.

 

Do I get another "Ding" for using uncouth?

 

Ralphie just said they wouldn't reach for a QB. Nix admitted that Gabbert has always been high on their draft board and his staff have gone out of their way to explain why his production wasn't where it should have been while at Missouri.

I'm pretty sure that Tom Brady's "production where it should have been" at Michigan given that he sat behind Drew

Henson an lot of the time. You can't go solely on production or you miss players that played at lesser programs

with not a lot of talent around them and/or you over-value production at great programs where a player had all

sorts of great talent around them (look at Matt Leinert recently).

 

IMHO, you have to consider the talent around a player and the competition that they played against (along with

a plethora of other factors).

[John from Riverside]

This is where I ultimately see Buddy Nix having the ability to turn this franchise around.....

 

The owner trusts him......

 

Its his company and I am sure Ralph wants to sit in there like the Big Chief.....but I think he understands that Nix is a football guy.....and trusts him.

 

This is how we ended up putting the team together that went to 4 straight super bowls.....the owner had a football guy that he trusted. And Nix is someone of a former Bills football guy deciple of sorts.....respected....knows what he is doing when it comes to finding good football players......

 

SOOO if there is a guy at 3 that Nix really feels would be a playmaker for this team.....he will sell it to the owner...and the owner will agree with it.

[Pilsner]

Why do I even bother to post. John I think you worded it much better than I ever could have. Ralph probably trusts Nix and will let him do his thing. As someone said, this draft will be one of his great defining moments. Getting very excited for next week.

[Bill from NYC]

But there is a VERY GOOD chance that if Nix and Gailey like Newton a lot but are not fully convinced he should be their pick, and are leaning toward taking a DL instead, that Ralph will say you guys like Newton a lot, take him, I think it's best for the franchise. That may be Ralph making the pick and stepping in, but it's not overruling his guys. It's just him making the final decision on a player his GM and coach loves, just isn't sure he is the very best pick because we have a lot of holes.

 

The scenario above describes Mr. Wilson as having the final say. Nix and Gailey are football men. Mr. Wilson is a businessman. If the GM wants to draft a player and is ordered to take another (as you describe above), that absolutely IS overruling his football people for business interests.

 

And btw, this is not a hate post wrt Mr. Wilson. I like the Bills sitatuion more than the current one faced by the LA Dodgers. I deeply appreciate the fact that I can go up to Buffalo (17 consecutive years) and watch my favorite team with the greatest fans in the country, and thank Mr. Wilson for this. But, the inteference of Mr. Wilson, along with his hiring of inept people such as Levy/Jauron have kept this team in the basement.

This time however he might be onto something. I would much rather see him take a chance on a QB than a situational running back, or yet another DB with such an early selection.

 

Mr. Wilson ordered Nix to go and scout QBs, right? Honestly, do you think that Ralph would lay out that kind of money for airfare, hotels, meals, etc. if he wasn't serious about taking a QB? I for one do not, but that is merely my opinion.

[papazoid]

Papa's Big Board:

 

#1- Fairley

#2- Dareus

#3- Peterson

#4- Miller

#5- Green

#6- Quinn

[birdog1960]

this feigned disbelief that wilson would demand his underlings to draft particular players is amusing. why is it that most everyone else who follows the nfl knows that wilson's meddling over the years has greatly harmed the bills but many of the folks who follow the team very closely here choose to disregard the overwhelming supporting evidence for this contention? remember when the search for a new gm and coach was on? ya think the remarkable lack of interest in both positions by top candidates had anything to do with wilson? i truly hope i'm wrong but unless a leopard changes his spots, it will be a qb at 3 and it will be wilson's call. lets just hope he finally gets one right.

[Bill from NYC]

this feigned disbelief that wilson would demand his underlings to draft particular players is amusing. why is it that most everyone else who follows the nfl knows that wilson's meddling over the years has greatly harmed the bills but many of the folks who follow the team very closely here choose to disregard the overwhelming supporting evidence for this contention? remember when the search for a new gm and coach was on? ya think the remarkable lack of interest in both positions by top candidates had anything to do with wilson? i truly hope i'm wrong but unless a leopard changes his spots, it will be a qb at 3 and it will be wilson's call. lets just hope he finally gets one right.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

this feigned disbelief that wilson would demand his underlings to draft particular players is amusing. why is it that most everyone else who follows the nfl knows that wilson's meddling over the years has greatly harmed the bills but many of the folks who follow the team very closely here choose to disregard the overwhelming supporting evidence for this contention? remember when the search for a new gm and coach was on? ya think the remarkable lack of interest in both positions by top candidates had anything to do with wilson? i truly hope i'm wrong but unless a leopard changes his spots, it will be a qb at 3 and it will be wilson's call. lets just hope he finally gets one right.

Answer me this: Do you think there is any chance in the world that Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey both tell Ralph that Newton is not good enough to draft at #3 and pay 60+ million dollars to, and they want to draft a DL which will make the team much better, and then Ralph tells them, "I want a QB, take Newton."

 

Gailey would very likely resign on the spot, and Nix probably would, too.