KOKBILLS Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 I love it how someone posting that they think Miller could be moved inside turns into a OBD bash-fest for the Bills "planning" to do that. We've got people bashing the team for hypothetically moving a guy we haven't drafted to a position no one has even hinted he'd be moved to. I can do this too: OMg, teh Bills are teh suxors! They are planning to move draft Nick Fairley and move him to CB. What a bunch of idiots we have running this team. Well...It has been hinted... Gailey on Miller
DreReed83 Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Don't be fairly certain because he will never play ILB. Ever. You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about or just don't even bother reading my posts. That's just ignorance on your part so I can't help you there. Von Miller's biggest strength is rushing off the edge. Why are you going to put him in traffic where he can't utilize his strength. Sure you can just put anyone at MLB (because they're "football players"). But the key is to put your players in a position where they'll most likely succeed. Why put Von at MLB where he could be just average/OK when you can put him at OLB where he'd be great? Not difficult. Edited April 20, 2011 by DreReed83
NewEra Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 And everyone else looks silly when they expect someone who hasn't played football in 2 years to come right in and play as well as he did earlier in his career. Speaking for myself, I don't think he WILL play as well as he did earlier in his career. But I think theres a chance he contributes, and even slighted chance that he becomes a difference maker. But a chance nonetheless.
DreReed83 Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Speaking for myself, I don't think he WILL play as well as he did earlier in his career. But I think theres a chance he contributes, and even slighted chance that he becomes a difference maker. But a chance nonetheless. Contribute? Sure. He'll contribute. Won't deny that at all but there's no way he's going to be what he was before. Not even close.
Bangarang Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Contribute? Sure. He'll contribute. Won't deny that at all but there's no way he's going to be what he was before. Not even close. Nobody is even trying to say that though. The whole point is that even if Merriman plays at 75% for the rest of his career, there's a good chance that his 75% will still be better than Moats' highest potential.
K-9 Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 So why would you put him at MLB in a 34 where you can't do that? MLB's do all the dirty work in a 34 system. OLB and MLB aren't the same and they have different skill sets. I would consider Eric Wood our best offensive lineman. Why do we criticize our previous coaching staff when we placed him at Guard and not his natural position at C? This would be the same thing. Speed, athleticism, and the ability to fly to the ball are EXACTLY what you want in your MLB, too. To be able to chase plays sideline to sideline is what separates the good from the great MLBs, regardless of the front seven alignment. While C may indeed be Wood's best position and I hope the Bills keep him there, the decision to have him start at guard was a good one given that they liked Hangartner at the time. No need to weaken one position when you can be strong at two. GO BILLS!!!
NewEra Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about or just don't even bother reading my posts. That's just ignorance on your part so I can't help you there. Von Miller's biggest strength is rushing off the edge. Why are you going to put him in traffic where he can't utilize his strength. Sure you can just put anyone at MLB (because they're "football players"). But the key is to put your players in a position where they'll most likely succeed. Why put Von at MLB where he could be just average/OK when you can put him at OLB where he'd be great? Not difficult. Again, because you KNOW that he can't be great inside? Of course you do, you're a troll. What's not difficult to understand is a player can help a team in more ways than one. Ray Lewis' strength is anticipating the run. Why would they have him rush the passer? Because he's able to do more than anticipate the run. Why would anyone send Charles Woodson on a blitz, when his best attribute is covering a WR? Because he's good at rushing the QB too. Why would you put Fred Jackson in the slot as a WR? Because he's got good hands. In all of these situations, Its all about what helps the team in each situation. If you have a player that can do multiple things well, why not utilize their talents? Using a player thats best attribute is rushing the passer, only as a pass rusher is limiting there contributions to the team, if they can do other things well too. Why is THAT so hard to understand? Wake up big troll guy
bouds Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) I love it how someone posting that they think Miller could be moved inside turns into a OBD bash-fest for the Bills "planning" to do that. We've got people bashing the team for hypothetically moving a guy we haven't drafted to a position no one has even hinted he'd be moved to. I can do this too: OMg, teh Bills are teh suxors! They are planning to move draft Nick Fairley and move him to CB. What a bunch of idiots we have running this team. Right, when I made the post it was pure speculation on my part. It was based partly on roster makeup, on statements made by scouts last year, and on the belief of many draft experts that Miller has the tools to be good in coverage. He was moved around in A&M's front this past season, against Nebraska his was running Mike blitz stunts, so he was at the MLB position. Never expected my comments to blow up and cause such a raucous. Our fanbase is passionate, sometimes a bit too passionate. Edited April 20, 2011 by bouds
K-9 Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about or just don't even bother reading my posts. That's just ignorance on your part so I can't help you there. Von Miller's biggest strength is rushing off the edge. Why are you going to put him in traffic where he can't utilize his strength. Sure you can just put anyone at MLB (because they're "football players"). But the key is to put your players in a position where they'll most likely succeed. Why put Von at MLB where he could be just average/OK when you can put him at OLB where he'd be great? Not difficult. While I agree with you about Miller's edge rush, that doesn't preclude a DC from utilizing his speed and athleticism in other areas. Kind of like when the Bills wanted to put Bennett at ILB. Having a guy that talented can often allow DCs to get their best units on the field. In this case, it might get your boy Moats on the field at OLB because he can't play ILB. While I personally don't see it happening I can certainly understand how it might. GO BILLS!!!
dgrid Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) on Batten to the inside, from Nix's pre-draft luncheon: On how playing in a 3-4 defense changes how you look at prospects: BN: It’s a lot and I think that’s a big part of what we do is project a guy to a different position, somewhere he hadn’t played. A good example of that is (Arthur) Moats who played with his hand on the ground all of his career. And then (Danny) Batten a guy that we’re going to be putting inside at linebacker. Again, you’re depending on experience and what you’ve seen in the past, but that’s where we spend a lot of our time. Link Batten will be moved inside, has studied the position all last yr. IMO- Moats will not, altho he did study it some. Miller, if they draft him, would stay outside. One other wildcard (serious longshot) is Jammie Kirlew. Broncos drafted him in 7th last yr, and released him, before we picked him up. Played DE well in college for Indiana. He did get a sack in preseason vs Cinci. He goes in the longshot category along w/ Maybin, and maybe Coleman. if 1 of em steps up, nice bonus, but dont count on it. Edited April 20, 2011 by dgrid
NoSaint Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Love the conjecture - but if we take a guy at 3 to move him to an unnatural position, it only substantiates the opinions many have with this organization. It would be like taking peterson with the idea to convert to a safety...at 15, OK, at 3 - no F-ing way. At 3, I would rather see them roll dice on Fairly to replace Stroud than Miller to move all over the place...one thing for sure, we will ruin his career. Don't draft miller and move him inside, draft fairley and move him to end. You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about or just don't even bother reading my posts. That's just ignorance on your part so I can't help you there. Von Miller's biggest strength is rushing off the edge. Why are you going to put him in traffic where he can't utilize his strength. Sure you can just put anyone at MLB (because they're "football players"). But the key is to put your players in a position where they'll most likely succeed. Why put Von at MLB where he could be just average/OK when you can put him at OLB where he'd be great? Not difficult. Clearly I can't speak for everyone but I was referencing it as possible if heaven forbid we have too many starters at olb. Odds are we will not be in that situation but if the three ????? Turn into !!!!! Then let's get them on the field.
T master Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I seem to remember reading some where that Moats will be used as a depth type OLB especially if the Bills draft say Miller with our #3 . Which wouldn't hurt my feelings ! Nix said Batten is going inside being tutored by Wanny , so if we draft Miller it could look like Merriman , Batten , Poz , & Miller with the back ups being Torbor , Ayodele , Moats & Kelsay . Kelsay is definitely being paid to much to be a depth player . If by some chance they get say M .Wilson in the second round i would say Kelsay could go because of his contract . But with the addition of Wanny i think this year is going to be an up yea for the D & i can't wait !! Go Bills !!!!!
artmalibu Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I seem to remember reading some where that Moats will be used as a depth type OLB especially if the Bills draft say Miller with our #3 . Which wouldn't hurt my feelings ! Nix said Batten is going inside being tutored by Wanny , so if we draft Miller it could look like Merriman , Batten , Poz , & Miller with the back ups being Torbor , Ayodele , Moats & Kelsay . Kelsay is definitely being paid to much to be a depth player . If by some chance they get say M .Wilson in the second round i would say Kelsay could go because of his contract . But with the addition of Wanny i think this year is going to be an up yea for the D & i can't wait !! Go Bills !!!!! I think you right Wanny will make more of a difference than any one player will.. But, Kelsay is important when they run the 4-3 so he is more than depth.
NewEra Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I think you right Wanny will make more of a difference than any one player will.. But, Kelsay is important when they run the 4-3 so he is more than depth. I think he's depth in the 4-3 too. Carrington, Williams, troupe, Edwards. That's if we don't draft a DL high. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather have those guys out there
stony Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Those players changed to another position so they could contribute to the team while utilizing their strength. Why would you take a LB where his biggest strength is rushing off the edge, and then stick him in the middle where he won't be able to utilize his greatest asset? Thats just stupid talk. Urlacher went from Safety to MLB because of his physicality and ability to tackle. Rod Woodson changed from CB to S later in his career because that's what his biggest strength would be. This is what Jauron's crew failed to do. For example, putting Wood at G when his greatest strength is at C. Sure, you can just put him at Guard and he'll play at Guard, but what position would he excel at the most? Center. Its really not that difficult of a concept. It didn't have anything to do with his lack of NFL level speed?
Astrobot Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) I can also see them trying Batten inside...though of course we don't know what we'll get from him. Moats is strictly an outside backer. Batten has been in on all team meetings as an ILB, according to Allen Wilson at Buffalo News. He has all the tools. I think he's one starting ILB on opening day. I do think the Bills will take another ILB in the draft, earlier rather than later--Martez Wilson, Mason Foster (my favorite at this point for #34), Akeem Ayers if we obtain a lower 2nd Rounder, or Casey Matthews at RD4#100. Edited April 21, 2011 by Astrobot
thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Perhaps it was mentioned and I missed it, but the only ILB with any starting experience that the team has under contract is Andra Davis. I know we're all desperate for change, but before we pencil in Poz as one starting ILB and Batten or some draft pick as the other, it'd be prudent to remember that Davis is likely going to still be with the team, which means he'll likely hold down one of the starting ILB spots. Regarding Batten, I'm also quite hesitant to pencil in a former 6th round DE with zero NFL experience as a starting ILB. I think it's very likely that the team goes into the 2011 regular season with Poz and Davis as the ILBs, assuming they re-sign Poz. As for Miller, if the team drafts him, he'll start at one of the OLB spots. I'd imagine that Kelsay would start at the other, and Moats and Merriman would be used in other pass-rush packages.
K-9 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 It didn't have anything to do with his lack of NFL level speed? Actually, it didn't, IIRC. Urlacher ran in the 4.5s at his combine which is plenty fast enough to play safety. But he was a 250 lb. safety in college and, with size and athletic ability like that, it's not a surprise that the Bears would want him at MLB in their Tampa 2. GO BILLS!!!
Astrobot Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 Perhaps it was mentioned and I missed it, but the only ILB with any starting experience that the team has under contract is Andra Davis. I know we're all desperate for change, but before we pencil in Poz as one starting ILB and Batten or some draft pick as the other, it'd be prudent to remember that Davis is likely going to still be with the team, which means he'll likely hold down one of the starting ILB spots. Regarding Batten, I'm also quite hesitant to pencil in a former 6th round DE with zero NFL experience as a starting ILB. I think it's very likely that the team goes into the 2011 regular season with Poz and Davis as the ILBs, assuming they re-sign Poz. As for Miller, if the team drafts him, he'll start at one of the OLB spots. I'd imagine that Kelsay would start at the other, and Moats and Merriman would be used in other pass-rush packages. I'll be very surprised if Davis is ILB this year. Davis played 6 games for the Bills last season, and according to ProFootballFocus.com, in their premium stats, graded Davis "good" in 1 game, Game 1 of the season. His rush defense was abysmal, especially in the BAL and KC games. We'll see a new face next to Poz. Poz played in 13 games (out 2,3, and bye in 6) and got a "good" rating 5 times (MIA, BAL, CHI, MIN, MIA), while "bad" 6 times ( NEJ, JAX, DET, PGH, CLE, NEP) The other two were just "meh". That's why we'll be acquiring 2 ILB's before training camp.
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