dave mcbride Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The reason that Newton isn't on the list, I suslect, is because it's becoming an increasingly foregone conclusion that the Panthers are taking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) Due explain then. If I said "He throws like Tom Brady" or "He throws like Brett Favre" or "He throws like Tim Tebow" you would know what I mean and see the difference, yes? Well Von Miller rushes the passer like Aaron Maybin. Thats a huge similiarity that can not and should not be ignored. Now I will turn it around, what player in the NFL rushes the passer like Von Miller? I cant think of any (other than Maybin) off the top of my head. To all the size guys, I really dont care about his weight, I care about how he plays. He plays small. He was pushed around by TEs. Thats why I think he is small. Also, 237 at the Sr Bowl, 246 at Combine, 250 the other day at the Browns visit. thinking about that, and from seeing him on TV, my guess is that he played the last two seasons bewteen 225-230. He has played no football at 250, which some people also thought was a risk with Maybin. Edited April 17, 2011 by Thoner7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 We did that last year. How many years in a row are we required to do this? Troup isn't a starter so how much backups at NT do we need? Keep in mind we will play 3-4 as well as 4-3 and with Stroud gone we need to have another NT in there preferably bigger and stronger than KW. The same goes for DE as well. We need speed and size on the corners. Troup and Carrington will be depended on more heavily this year but you have to have depth to increase the competition during the preseason and account for potential injuries during the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Rd 1 Von Miller Rd 2 Phil Taylor I like this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) If I said "He throws like Tom Brady" or "He throws like Brett Favre" or "He throws like Tim Tebow" you would know what I mean and see the difference, yes? Well Von Miller rushes the passer like Aaron Maybin. Thats a huge similiarity that can not and should not be ignored. To all the size guys, I really dont care about his weight, I care about how he plays. He plays small. He was pushed around by TEs. Thats why I think he is small. Also, 237 at the Sr Bowl, 246 at Combine, 250 the other day at the Browns visit. thinking about that, and from seeing him on TV, my guess is that he played the last two seasons bewteen 225-230. He has played no football at 250, which some people also thought was a risk with Maybin. Another poster displayed similarities between Miller and players like Matthews, Phillips, Harrison. All of these guys had to bulk up as pro's. Matthews played no football at 250 until he came to the NFL why would expect different from Miller? No doubt Miller will play at 250 give or take a few cheeseburgers and Miller was clearly more successful on a college level than the prior names. Why do you chose to compare him to failure (Maybin) when he has been very successful. Miller reminds me of Cornelius Bennett with his speed, size and moves. If you look at old footage he plays more like Bennett than Maybin. Edited April 17, 2011 by VADC Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) Another poster displayed similarities between Miller and players like Matthews, Phillips, Harrison. All of these guys had to bulk up as pro's. Matthews played no football at 250 until he came to the NFL why would expect different from Miller? No doubt Miller will play at 250 give or take a few cheeseburgers and Miller was clearly more successful on a college level than the prior names. Why do you chose to compare him to failure (Maybin) when he has been very successful. Miller reminds me of Cornelius Bennett with his speed, size and moves. Well, I didn't compare him to anyone. I clearly said I dont care about his weight, I care about his play (which is similar to Maybin - his pass rush anyways - and not Mathews or Phillips or Harrison). I simply stated that he has been packing weight on since the season ended and hasn't played any games at that weight. Maybe he can carry the weight, maybe he cant, again I dont care. I am worried about his speed rush and lack of anything remotely considered physical. Sure he could learn to be physical, but I dont think he has the mentality to be physical, because if he did, wouldnt he have played physical the past few seasons? Sure he could learn to fight off blockers, and grow stronger to be able to toss OTs around, but why gamble at #3 on a guy who hasn't shown any of those very very very important things in college, and expect him to do it in the NFL? Thats the kind of thinking that took Maybin (the huge ? that had to grow, had to get strong, have to learn pass rushing moves) over Orakpo (the complete package who needs nothing and is a PB player in his first year). Edited April 17, 2011 by Thoner7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The Bills will not draft a NT this year. They don't need it. Troup and Williams are the teams NT's. They not even looked at one this year at all. Only Qb's, DE's and LB's have come to One Bills Drive this off season. The team drafted Troup in the second round last year, why draft another NT in the second round this year. HELLO! Troupe and Williams are DTs not NTs neither is a space eater that demands two blockers on running plays. Williams moves to DE when we have a true NT. Rd 1 Von Miller Rd 2 Phil Taylor I like this . I am 110% for this scenario. Other option Dareus and and Taylor if he is there if not the best available OLB in rd 2. Martez Wilson or Moch in rd 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 And what exactly is the preferred size of an OLB? Like I said, a player doesn't have to be the size of Ware to be successful. Take a look at Shaun Phillips of the Chargers. They run a 3-4 and he's 6'2 250. Last year he had 55 tackles and 11 sacks. Do I even have to mention Clay Matthews? Terrell Suggs - 6'3 260 - 68 tackles & 11 sacks. James Harrison - 6'0 242 - 100 tackles 10.5 sacks. Kamerion Wimbley - 6'4 255 - 56 tackles 9 sacks. I think the point is pretty obvious. Miller is the same size/bigger than some of the best LBs in the league. Just because you are 6'5 275 does not necessarily improve your chances of being successful in the NFL. Size only gets you so far. Once again, what same characteristics does Miller share with Maybin? You keep saying that but don't explain your reasoning. Yes, Maybin was a bust. It does not mean that we should be hesitant of drafting someone else that plays his position just because Maybin did not work out. Are we not going to draft another tackle because Mike Williams was a bust? That theyre both undersized! look at all the top OLB passrushers in the NFL and tell me how many weigh less than 250 lbs.! I understand what you're saying but you can't deny that theyre very similar players in terms of size and technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 You should be worried. Whenever I get close to feeling that Von Miller might be a good pick, i just go back and watch the video on him. Whoever picks Miller will be making a huge mistake because the video just doesn't match the insane hype this guy has been getting. Go watch the Texas game, the Nebraska game. I see a blitzing strong safety, not an NFL outside linebacker. Just like a strong safety he runs AROUND people. Seriously, that's all he does. To be fair, I'll say he's a 2 trick pony since he does cover well. But what else would you expect from a safety? Miller will be EASILY neutralized at the next level. Are you kidding me? You don't think that Belichick and Ryan will know how to handle Von Miller? Here's a clue, just have someone, ANYONE, block him. OL, TE, RB, they'll all be able to handle him. I'll be very disappointed if they draft Miller. Give me Quinn, Peterson, Green, Jordan or Watt…do not draft Miller. For the guys that say he's bigger now, who cares? He didn't play that kind of game in college. We didn't see him use size as a way to get to the ball carrier. So you'll be drafting a guy based on thinking but not showing he can do it? Wow, either way it goes, this is going to be one crazy board after that first pick. Did you see the video of Quinn vs Nebraska or Texas? No, you saw the video of quinn playing vs Duke and the citadel. Powerhouses to say the least.... And then you go so far as incinuating that he's not 250, saying that he "says he's 250". He is 250. Will he maintain that weight? It's anyones guess. You assume that Quinn will be better vs the run than Miller, when Quinn has yet to be effective vs the run, while playing vs crap competition. You attack those that are assuming Von miller will improve vs the run because he has yet to be effective, then do the same thing by assuming Quinn will. Makes sense man. Lots of sense. I can't wait to see Miller in a bills uni, sacking the QB, making tackles in the backfield and breaking up 3rd and short passes to the TE. Then reading your posts afterwards. Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Did you see the video of Quinn vs Nebraska or Texas? No, you saw the video of quinn playing vs Duke and the citadel. Powerhouses to say the least.... And then you go so far as incinuating that he's not 250, saying that he "says he's 250". He is 250. Will he maintain that weight? It's anyones guess. You assume that Quinn will be better vs the run than Miller, when Quinn has yet to be effective vs the run, while playing vs crap competition. You attack those that are assuming Von miller will improve vs the run because he has yet to be effective, then do the same thing by assuming Quinn will. Makes sense man. Lots of sense. I can't wait to see Miller in a bills uni, sacking the QB, making tackles in the backfield and breaking up 3rd and short passes to the TE. Then reading your posts afterwards. Can't wait. I think part of the problem with a debate like this is the fact that some NFL Teams have a hard time projecting players like Miller and Quinn...The main reason I'd rather see The Bills shy away from both these guys is the sobering thought that this is basically the same Scouting Staff that thought Maybin would be a better Pro than Orakpo or Matthews...That thought alone makes me scared to death that this Team is considering another OLB/Pass Rusher with the #3 Overall Pick...I don't trust their ability to get it right no matter what to be honest... If I had to choose between the two I would choose Miller though...More production to evaluate...He was a beast at A&M... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 If we take Miller in the first we have to get a NT in the second. Nothing else makes sense. A QB in rd 2 does not help us half as much as a NT. However if Newton falls to us in the first and we grab him we have to take a NT in the 2nd and LBs in the 3rd and 4th. If we take Miller or Dareus then a NT in the second we could go for Copernicus in 3 or an OT. Do Kyle Willims and Torrell Troup not count as NTs? Williams might be undersized for the traditional NT and Troup is only going into his second year. But to my mind, that's one position (WR would be another) that is far down the Must Fix NOW list. If the Bills take another NT, my guess is it will come far later in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I'm not a fan of taking Miller at #3 only because I think the 3rd overall should be someone only needs to develop his game, not change it. That stuff is for later round projects IMO. Dareus, baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I'm not a fan of taking Miller at #3 only because I think the 3rd overall should be someone only needs to develop his game, not change it. That stuff is for later round projects IMO. Dareus, baby! I would be shocked if Denver did not take Dareus at #2 Overall...Assuming he does not go #1 to Carolina of coarse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 That theyre both undersized! look at all the top OLB passrushers in the NFL and tell me how many weigh less than 250 lbs.! I understand what you're saying but you can't deny that theyre very similar players in terms of size and technique. Based off of the 2010 sack leaders at the OLB position, fully 1/2 of the top 10 were 255 lbs or less. I'm not a fan of taking Miller at #3 only because I think the 3rd overall should be someone only needs to develop his game, not change it. That stuff is for later round projects IMO. Dareus, baby! Why would Miller need to change his game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Did you see the video of Quinn vs Nebraska or Texas? No, you saw the video of quinn playing vs Duke and the citadel. Powerhouses to say the least.... And then you go so far as incinuating that he's not 250, saying that he "says he's 250". He is 250. Will he maintain that weight? It's anyones guess. You assume that Quinn will be better vs the run than Miller, when Quinn has yet to be effective vs the run, while playing vs crap competition. You attack those that are assuming Von miller will improve vs the run because he has yet to be effective, then do the same thing by assuming Quinn will. Makes sense man. Lots of sense. I can't wait to see Miller in a bills uni, sacking the QB, making tackles in the backfield and breaking up 3rd and short passes to the TE. Then reading your posts afterwards. Can't wait. Check out this video of Quinn v Virginia... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNoYxbvKxXE That's the difference between these two players. One can take on blocks and still make a play because of his size, the other one can only run around blockers to make a play. Can Miller change his game and play bigger fending off blocks? That's a huge question mark now don't you think since we've yet to see it on video? Let me ask you something, if the experts were all saying that Quinn was the best, not Miller, would you still be so high on Miller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Why would Miller need to change his game? The ignorance regarding Miller astounds me. Miller would of been a first round pick last year if he declared, possibly a top 10. And all he did was return to school, produce mad numbers on the field, dominate the senior bowl, made Mayock write "wow" in his draft notes more then any other player in the country, blow up at the combine- and yet some brainiacs refer to Miller as Maybin. Hydrogen and stupidity like they say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The ignorance regarding Miller astounds me. Miller would of been a first round pick last year if he declared, possibly a top 10. And all he did was return to school, produce mad numbers on the field, dominate the senior bowl, made Mayock write "wow" in his draft notes more then any other player in the country, blow up at the combine- and yet some brainiacs refer to Miller as Maybin. Hydrogen and stupidity like they say Dude, that's complete BS and you know it. Miller wasn't even considered top 10 in January of THIS year!...LOL Miller = finesse player Quinn = physical player I don't want a four cylinder when I need and can have an eight. The experts are wrong on Miller, just like they're wrong on Gabbert. Miller will be an ok player, Quinn will be the superstar. Mark it down, lock it in, the Bills will be making a huge mistake if they select Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Dude, that's complete BS and you know it. Miller wasn't even considered top 10 in January of THIS year!...LOL Miller = finesse player Quinn = physical player I don't want a four cylinder when I need and can have an eight. The experts are wrong on Miller, just like they're wrong on Gabbert. Miller will be an ok player, Quinn will be the superstar. Mark it down, lock it in, the Bills will be making a huge mistake if they select Miller. stupidity and hyrdrogen...... Miller had 17 sacks JR year and was All American. He would of blown up at the combine and soared up draft boards. He won the Butkus trophy and they don't hand that to finesse players. Quinn is intriguing but he is a one year wonder who has not played football the past year. Take a deep breath, fix your BS detector, don't hate and open your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 stupidity and hyrdrogen...... Miller had 17 sacks JR year and was All American. He would of blown up at the combine and soared up draft boards. He won the Butkus trophy and they don't hand that to finesse players. Quinn is intriguing but he is a one year wonder who has not played football the past year. Take a deep breath, fix your BS detector, don't hate and open your mind Explain this then (1/8/11)... http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2011matt_1.php I'm not hating, just trying to keep it real and get away from the expert's hype machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Explain this then (1/8/11)... http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2011matt_1.php I'm not hating, just trying to keep it real and get away from the expert's hype machine. From your link- Miller is a freak athlete and someone I've been a fan of all year. He has an elite first step and excellent closing speed. He's a tenacious pass rusher and perfect as a rush linebacker in the 3-4 scheme. Um what am I supposed to be explaining again? Think about it. What happens to a JR's draft stock when they declare for the upcoming NFL draft after having 17 sacks against great competition, they are named All-American, and it is safe to assume Miller would of had a great combine last year. Where does a player like that tend to get drafted? Jrs make or break every NFL draft class. Walter Football is not a reliable source, nor are they a scout. I trust Mayock's opinion much more then Walter Football or Bleacher Report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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