Poll on whether Fitz is the right guy or not

[Alphadawg7]

The question posed was Fitz's ability to win a SB...I will put this simply:

 

Someone please show me a team amongst the 12 teams that made this years playoffs that now not only advances to the SB but also wins it because we swap in Fitz for their existing QB.

 

Here are the 12 teams and QB's

 

Sea - Hasselbeck

KC - Cassel

Phi - Vick

NO - Brees

Jets - Sanchize

NE - Brady

INDY - Manning

Chi - Cutler

GB - Rodgers

Pitt - Big Ben

Balt - Flacco

Atl - Ryan

 

Pay attention to the question...I am not asking if you think Fitz is better than anyone on this list...I am asking you on which team is Fitz the difference maker that now leads their team to the SB victory instead of them being eliminated? I mean come on...most of the top D's and O's in the league are on this list, and several have both...yet there isn't a single team on here where if you plug in Fitz over their existing QB that now changes their fate and wins the SB last year, including GB who would not have even advanced with Fitz let alone win the SB.

 

So how can anyone say with a top D and all this that he suddenly is a SB winning QB? He wouldn't have done it last year with any of these other teams who many of which are stacked on both sides of the ball. There isn't a single team on that list that would trade their starter for Fitz for their playoff run last year.

 

Just to be clear, anything is possible on any given Sunday...I mean, NO beats Sea 9 times out of 10 last year, yet they still lost to Sea. So anyone is capable of anything every week, its the NFL. But since we cant go back and replay every playoff game with Fitz under center for each team, we have to use common sense on the the likeliness that any of these teams now win the SB (or still win it in GB's case) with Fitz as their QB the whole playoffs instead of who they had...and the answer is clearly no.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[PromoTheRobot]

Fitz is the right guy for 2011.

 

PTR

[Alphadawg7]

Fitz is the right guy for 2011.

 

PTR

 

Agreed, he is the right guy to lead this team for 2011 while our rookie QB of the future grooms behind him.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Agreed, he is the right guy to lead this team for 2011 while our rookie QB of the future grooms behind him.

 

Hopefully this rookie QB of the future wasn't taken at #3 because this will demand that said rookie QB plays 1) plays before he has earned the job and 2) gets more starts than the quality of his play justifies. And if he can't take the heat from the fans or the media for the boatload of losses coming their way, and feels the need to call out his teammates for their mistakes, we can patiently wait for him to mature into a leader that has the trust of the entire team.

 

Let Fitz's 2011 season answer the question about where his ceiling is, say I.

[KOKBILLS]

Hopefully this rookie QB of the future wasn't taken at #3 because this will demand that said rookie QB plays 1) plays before he has earned the job and 2) gets more starts than the quality of his play justifies. And if he can't take the heat from the fans or the media for the boatload of losses coming their way, and feels the need to call out his teammates for their mistakes, we can patiently wait for him to mature into a leader that has the trust of the entire team.

 

Let Fitz's 2011 season answer the question about where his ceiling is, say I.

 

And if Fitz regresses while one of these 1st Round QB's we pass looks like a Franchise guy, what say you then?

 

It can happen you know? And once again it will be "what if?" in Buffalo...

[Bufcomments]

I voted he CAN win a Super Bowl with a dominating Defense.

 

In the AFC Ravens, Steelers, Jets made the playoffs based on there D. Granted Big Ben has won 2 Super Bowls and got to another. Flacco to me is an above average QB but Sanchez to me is a average QB.

 

If, and this is a huge if, the Bills can get Merriman back to health, draft Miller or the best DE/DL on their board with the 3rd pick, get another LB in the second the D will be better.

 

But lets face it, they wont be playoff ready until 2012 regardless on who is playing QB. Because the Bills BIGGEST holes are on Defense.

 

I say fix the Defense this year, lets see if Fitz can improve on last years numbers, I maintain that any QB we draft this year will not be better than Fitz .

[Alphadawg7]

I voted he CAN win a Super Bowl with a dominating Defense.

 

In the AFC Ravens, Steelers, Jets made the playoffs based on there D. Granted Big Ben has won 2 Super Bowls and got to another. Flacco to me is an above average QB but Sanchez to me is a average QB.

 

If, and this is a huge if, the Bills can get Merriman back to health, draft Miller or the best DE/DL on their board with the 3rd pick, get another LB in the second the D will be better.

 

But lets face it, they wont be playoff ready until 2012 regardless on who is playing QB. Because the Bills BIGGEST holes are on Defense.

 

I say fix the Defense this year, lets see if Fitz can improve on last years numbers, I maintain that any QB we draft this year will not be better than Fitz .

 

So are you saying that if you put Fitz on Pitt last year, that Pitt still makes the SB and then instead beats GB? Are you saying that if put Fitz on Balt that now Balt advances to the SB and also beats GB? Are you saying that if you put Fitz on the Jets that now the Jets beat Pitt and then go on to beat GB?

 

What about GB? Do they still beat Phi and everyone to advance to SB? And do they win that game against Pitt if you take away Rodgers and add in Fitz? I mean it took everything Rodgers had to beat Pitt in that game, so you think Fitz puts up the same performance?

 

PS: Still waiting for someone to answer the question I asked in the post on the top of this very page.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[KD in CA]

Someone please show me a team amongst the 12 teams that made this years playoffs that now not only advances to the SB but also wins it because we swap in Fitz for their existing QB.

 

What is this nonsense supposed to mean? Who said anything about Fitz improving a team that is already in the playoffs?

 

People are comparing Fitz vs. the cost of investing the #3 pick on a highly questionable QB prospect instead of using that pick to help other areas of the team. How is this such a difficult concept for some or you?

[Billy in 4C]

If we are talking about winning a SB, than the Bills are just as far away at several other positions (DT, DE, LB, TE, OT) as they are at QB, and the SB isn't going to be a realistic possibility until you fix all or nearly all of those problems. Therefore, you fix the problems based on the quality of the people available, not based on some arbitrary ranking of which position is more important.

 

The reason the Bills suck is because they have consistently missed on their top draft picks. That's it. So stop drafting projects, guys who are injured, guys who "project at" a different position than they played in college, or guys with "upside" and start drafting guys that can play at an NFL level right now.

 

Agree with your statements that the whole team needs to improve/draft better, etc. But that doesn't answer the intention of the original post - which is, can Fitz win a championship? Assume he has a solid team around him - can he win the super bowl? In my opinion, I would say no. In end of the game situations where he was required to put the team on his back he didn't do it more than he did. Needing to win 3-4 games in a row against great teams I don't think he can do it.

 

You are going to have to get a QB round 1 in either this draft or next. And don't say QB is equally as important as a LB or TE, etc. because it's not.

[NewEra]

Reasons why Fitz' accuracy could improve:

 

1) Fitz wasn't the starter to begin the season. He got fewer reps than Edwards in the early weeks of the season after a preseason of splitting reps with Edwards and Brohm.

2} It was Fitz' first year in a new system.

3) Fitz' wideouts included only two established veterans (Parrish who only played in eight games and Lee Evans), a first year starter (Steve Johnson), and three undrafted rookie free agents (Donald Jones, David Nelson and Naaman Roosevelt).

4) Fitz never had the opportunity to play with an established starter at tight end. The Bills might have the worst tight ends in the NFL and no one stepped up at that position

5) Fitz received mediocre pass protection. The pass pro only appeared to improve from Edwards to Fitz because Fitz did a much better job calling the protections pre-snap and getting the ball out quickly than did Edwards.

 

So there's five legitimate reasons that Fitz could possibly improve his accuracy (completion percentage) this upcoming season.

Nice post. Sure there's a chance he can improve his accuracy. I just saw so many throws that were SO off the mark, I had no idea who he was throwing to. Again, I like Fitz, I just think we need to improve our QB position of we're gonna make a run at being a playoff team every year. We need to improve the defense bigtime as well, but anytime we have a chance to acquire a stud QB, we need to take a shot, as long as the FO/coaches feel they can develop them.

[KOKBILLS]

What is this nonsense supposed to mean? Who said anything about Fitz improving a team that is already in the playoffs?

 

People are comparing Fitz vs. the cost of investing the #3 pick on a highly questionable QB prospect instead of using that pick to help other areas of the team. How is this such a difficult concept for some or you?

 

I'm not sure why his point is completely invalid...It's turning things around to make his point...In those Teams you have excellent Defenses and overall rosters with very good Franchise QB's...Whether or not Fitz would do as well with those Teams is the exact thing we are all trying to figure out here about Fitz...I think looking at it that way further shows that if you don't think Fitz could do as well with those Teams, the risk of using #3 on one of those "highly questionable QB prospects" (your words...some Scouts definitely disagree) becomes MUCH, much easier to stomach...

[KD in CA]

Agree with your statements that the whole team needs to improve/draft better, etc. But that doesn't answer the intention of the original post - which is, can Fitz win a championship? Assume he has a solid team around him - can he win the super bowl? In my opinion, I would say no. In end of the game situations where he was required to put the team on his back he didn't do it more than he did. Needing to win 3-4 games in a row against great teams I don't think he can do it.

 

You are going to have to get a QB round 1 in either this draft or next. And don't say QB is equally as important as a LB or TE, etc. because it's not.

 

First, I didn't say a QB was of equal importance to those other positions; I said we need to fix all or almost all of those positions to win a SB and the order in how we fix them should be based on availability of talent, not on a ranking of 'importance' of position. If QB was the only glaring need on the team than I might be more risk tolerant of a selection like Newton.

 

But the fact that Fitz probably can't win a SB is NOT a reason to draft a highly questionable project with the #3 pick, which is the clearly flawed logic of the Newton fan-boys. The Bills should draft a QB when a highly promising one is there to draft (and worth the pick being invested). Once again, this team sucks because it chases "upside" instead of drafting solid players in the early rounds of the draft.

[Alphadawg7]

What is this nonsense supposed to mean? Who said anything about Fitz improving a team that is already in the playoffs?

 

People are comparing Fitz vs. the cost of investing the #3 pick on a highly questionable QB prospect instead of using that pick to help other areas of the team. How is this such a difficult concept for some or you?

 

What are you talking about? That is not what people are talking about...this entire thread and poll is whether Fitz can either carry a team to a SB or win a SB with a top D and supporting cast.

 

If people say he can win it with a top D and supporting cast...then put him on one of the many teams with that in last years playoffs. How many of those teams does he now lead to a SB win or even make the SB this past playoff season? That's the point. How can someone say he could win the SB for Buffalo under all these perfect scenarios of a top 3 D and great supporting cast on the offense when if you add him to a one of the existing teams that have these type of elements he actually DECREASES that teams chances (who already did not win the SB last year)?

 

First, I didn't say a QB was of equal importance to those other positions; I said we need to fix all or almost all of those positions to win a SB and the order in how we fix them should be based on availability of talent, not on a ranking of 'importance' of position. If QB was the only glaring need on the team than I might be more risk tolerant of a selection like Newton.

 

But the fact that Fitz probably can't win a SB is NOT a reason to draft a highly questionable project with the #3 pick, which is the clearly flawed logic of the Newton fan-boys. The Bills should draft a QB when a highly promising one is there to draft (and worth the pick being invested). Once again, this team sucks because it chases "upside" instead of drafting solid players in the early rounds of the draft.

 

First off, the poll is whether Fitz can win a championship...not should we draft Newton/Gabbert. Second, seems to me that you can't get past the Newton stuff because from what I have seen most people feel the same way I do that want a QB...we prefer to go D at #3 (but are ok with QB at #3 if FO and Chan think they are worth it) and then grab a QB at #34 assuming one we covet is still there.

 

And for the record, every top 10 QB is a risky pick...heck, Indy couldnt decide between Manning and Leaf...SF couldnt decide between Smith and Rodgers and went with Smith because he was the "safer" pick...even Luck is no where close to a lock to be a good NFL QB. They all come at risk...but you cant achieve success or rewards without taking risk. And FYI: All, and I mean all, the top DL have risk this year, just like every year. You will never remove risk and if we bomb on a DL it will set us back as much as a busted QB pick, especially if the QB we passed on to take the DL goes on to great success in the NFL.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[KOKBILLS]

What are you talking about? That is not what people are talking about...this entire thread and poll is whether Fitz can either carry a team to a SB or win a SB with a top D and supporting cast.

 

If people say he can win it with a top D and supporting cast...then put him on one of the many teams with that in last years playoffs. How many of those teams does he now lead to a SB win or even make the SB this past playoff season? That's the point. How can someone say he could win the SB for Buffalo under all these perfect scenarios of a top 3 D and great supporting cast on the offense when if you add him to a one of the existing teams that have these type of elements he actually DECREASES that teams chances (who already did not win the SB last year)?

 

 

This is really an excellent point...Not sure why no one else has used this argument, in this way, up to this point...But it truly speaks to exactly why some of us simply do not feel Fitz is the guy past 2011...

[Billy in 4C]

So are you saying that if you put Fitz on Pitt last year, that Pitt still makes the SB and then instead beats GB? Are you saying that if put Fitz on Balt that now Balt advances to the SB and also beats GB? Are you saying that if you put Fitz on the Jets that now the Jets beat Pitt and then go on to beat GB?

 

What about GB? Do they still beat Phi and everyone to advance to SB? And do they win that game against Pitt if you take away Rodgers and add in Fitz? I mean it took everything Rodgers had to beat Pitt in that game, so you think Fitz puts up the same performance?

 

PS: Still waiting for someone to answer the question I asked in the post on the top of this very page.

 

Exactly. I like Fitz but the Packers don't win the SB with him - even with their great defense and balanced offense. In today's NFL you don't win the superbowl with an average QB. He gives you the ability to win on "any given sunday", but not 3-4 games in a row against Manning, Brady, Rivers, Big Ben, etc.

[SoggyHog]

Fitz has never been "the guy". He has always been a backup. I want to see what he does when someone gives him the keys to the offense. The players respect him and play their hearts out for him. I feel as though if given the chance he will do good. And that means going an entire offseason with him as the man.

 

+1

[Orton's Arm]

I think we need to have a once in a dacade type defense, and get lucky, to win with Fitz. That means we need 8-10 new defensive starters, and retaining some OK starters as backups. We also need new defensive coaches and a better running game.

 

that said I think Fitz is a better option than drafting one this year.

I agree with this post. (Except that I'd consider taking Ponder in the second round, assuming he was still there.)

 

There are a lot of things to like about Fitz. He's a good leader, gets rid of the ball in a hurry, etc. But he isn't an accurate passer, and that lack of accuracy and consistency will kill a lot of drives. Too many drives, in fact, for the Bills to win the Super Bowl with him at quarterback.

 

Unless, of course, they have a defense that's like the Ravens of 2000. But like you said, it would take a good nine or ten new defensive starters to create a defense like that; and each new defensive starter would have to be at or near the Pro Bowl level. A lot of defenses are described as "dominating" without being in the same category as the Ravens of 2000. (Which is why I voted "no" on the poll, instead of "dominating defense.")

 

If you put Fitz on the Ravens of 2000, they'd still win the Super Bowl. But if you put him on any lesser team, that team would almost certainly be eliminated in the playoffs.

[NewEra]

I agree with this post. (Except that I'd consider taking Ponder in the second round, assuming he was still there.)

 

There are a lot of things to like about Fitz. He's a good leader, gets rid of the ball in a hurry, etc. But he isn't an accurate passer, and that lack of accuracy and consistency will kill a lot of drives. Too many drives, in fact, for the Bills to win the Super Bowl with him at quarterback.

 

Unless, of course, they have a defense that's like the Ravens of 2000. But like you said, it would take a good nine or ten new defensive starters to create a defense like that; and each new defensive starter would have to be at or near the Pro Bowl level. A lot of defenses are described as "dominating" without being in the same category as the Ravens of 2000. (Which is why I voted "no" on the poll, instead of "dominating defense.")

 

If you put Fitz on the Ravens of 2000, they'd still win the Super Bowl. But if you put him on any lesser team, that team would almost certainly be eliminated in the playoffs.

They might have won the super bowl. They may not have.

[JESSEFEFFER]

And if Fitz regresses while one of these 1st Round QB's we pass looks like a Franchise guy, what say you then?

 

It can happen you know? And once again it will be "what if?" in Buffalo...

 

Then some QB in the 2012 draft gets a pile of money. Or some QB that they get in this year's draft gets to compete for the job. I personally feel that Vince Young would be a good pickup. He's talented, has performed well when on the field, and maybe he can thrive under a QB freindly HC.

 

As soon as you take a QB at the top of the draft it's like the Bills are married to the guy. Saying that you'll play Fitz for a year or two would be like dating someone other than to whom you are engaged. Makes no sense to me. I want Fitz to be plan A for the 2011 season and see if he elevates his game. Having a plan B or even A1 is ok with me too. As long as their is a legit competition for the job.

[3rdand12]

There is some good reasoning as to why Chan, and Buddy too, speak well of our Fitz.

Because he is the guy for next year. But it is clear that if we can get a better qb for the long term we sure will and i think that means from the draft.

I bet he (Ryan)knows where he stands with our future.

How a poll started out as a reasonable query and then to suggest that "let them have their fantastic hopes awarded from such low expectations" and trying to divide us is weak and selfish.

Of course i hope, That is part of fandom. We should have 100 percent vote in that yes, our Fitz can.

I just dont get bashing players again and again or our team. We all saw the games or heard them, right? Last year was an awesome losing year. Especially after Ryan started. Although we finished the last two games poorly and desperate but we got the number #3 pick.

I hope to have even more fun winning!