Official 2011 NBA Playoffs thread

[Buftex]

Was Kobe not rumored to have been involved in some way with the Shaq divorce? Like he implied something that set Shaq's little wife off on a tear turning up all his affairs?

 

 

IIRC, that was the begining of the end for the Shaq and Kobe relationship...when Kobe had his incident in Colorado, it came out that he told investigators that "all the guys have women on the road, Shaq does it all the time..." or something to that effect. Things being what they are nowadays, his words made it out to all the media outlets, and Kobe kind of broke a code, amongst his NBA brethren...now, I think Shaqs wife filed for divorce on the grounds of infideltiy, but it was long after the Kobe thing...but I do know, it pissed Shaq off tremendously.

[John from Riverside]

I dont think Shaq and Kobe were ever close.....two alpha males on the same team who both thought THEY should be the guy.....it has been well documented that Shaq went out of his way to backbite Kobe to the other players on the team at that time....and it is also well documented that starting out Kobe was not the most mature "person" even though he could do great things with a basketball.....he was a high schooler when he was brought onto the team for christ sake.....but Shaq and Kobe were never close.

 

The thing about talking to the investigators about Shaq's other women....I believe it happened. To this day I dont think Kobe actually raped that girl.....but he knew he was in trouble all the same because he cheated on his wife and his kids and this was going to be all over the news (why these guys with multi millions dont have someone following them around keeping them out of trouble I will never understand) but I can see a scenario of how these agents started talking to Kobe in a "one of the guys" manner and he put it out there that its no big deal for star athletes to have women on the road.

 

Fast forward to now.....Kobe is played an awful lot of basketball for the age he is at.....and he has more phyical ailments on his body that a player like Michael Jordan didnt have yet their numbers are comparable. I think to date its

 

Tendons in his shooting hand fingers that will never heal....not even with surgery

Tendonities in both knees....

Bone fragments in one knee....which had to have surgery last year

A ankle sprain which might envolve tendon issues.....which was so bad that he refused to have an MRI done on it when it happened because he didn't want anyone to know how bad it was

 

Lower body injuries are really what do in professional athletes.....they can live with the upper body stuff but you lose your explosiveness when you lose your lower body.

 

Kobe was just not Kobe in the playoffs this year....he wasn't that guy that could say "ok the rest of you muther effers arent doing squat so im gonna do it" those days are either over or are going to be over here pretty soon. He is still a very good player but if the lakers are smart they will find a way to get a REAL star ball handling guard onto the team that can score, distribute, and actually guard these little probing knats that get into our defense.

 

The problem is.....how do you aquire that player? I would give up both Pao Gasol and Lamar Odom right now if we could get Chris Paul

[Buftex]

I dont think Shaq and Kobe were ever close.....two alpha males on the same team who both thought THEY should be the guy.....it has been well documented that Shaq went out of his way to backbite Kobe to the other players on the team at that time....and it is also well documented that starting out Kobe was not the most mature "person" even though he could do great things with a basketball.....he was a high schooler when he was brought onto the team for christ sake.....but Shaq and Kobe were never close.

 

The thing about talking to the investigators about Shaq's other women....I believe it happened. To this day I dont think Kobe actually raped that girl.....but he knew he was in trouble all the same because he cheated on his wife and his kids and this was going to be all over the news (why these guys with multi millions dont have someone following them around keeping them out of trouble I will never understand) but I can see a scenario of how these agents started talking to Kobe in a "one of the guys" manner and he put it out there that its no big deal for star athletes to have women on the road.

 

Fast forward to now.....Kobe is played an awful lot of basketball for the age he is at.....and he has more phyical ailments on his body that a player like Michael Jordan didnt have yet their numbers are comparable. I think to date its

 

Tendons in his shooting hand fingers that will never heal....not even with surgery

Tendonities in both knees....

Bone fragments in one knee....which had to have surgery last year

A ankle sprain which might envolve tendon issues.....which was so bad that he refused to have an MRI done on it when it happened because he didn't want anyone to know how bad it was

 

Lower body injuries are really what do in professional athletes.....they can live with the upper body stuff but you lose your explosiveness when you lose your lower body.

 

Kobe was just not Kobe in the playoffs this year....he wasn't that guy that could say "ok the rest of you muther effers arent doing squat so im gonna do it" those days are either over or are going to be over here pretty soon. He is still a very good player but if the lakers are smart they will find a way to get a REAL star ball handling guard onto the team that can score, distribute, and actually guard these little probing knats that get into our defense.

 

The problem is.....how do you aquire that player? I would give up both Pao Gasol and Lamar Odom right now if we could get Chris Paul

 

Oh yeah, me too.

 

Funny, I don't expect that the Lakers are going to fall of the map of NBA relevancy any time soon...it is a franchise, more than any other in the NBA, that guys want play for. I would be surprised if the Lakers don't make a major addition next season. Chris Paul might be it...

 

I am hearing (as I am sure you have) that they are talking about Rick Adleman as their head coach next year. Also heard today, the Lakers and Heat might make a run at Doc Rivers after the season...he is a free agent, and has declined to accept an extension from the Celtics.

 

I think Adleman would be an interesting fit for the Lakers. He would bring a more up-tempo style that you always associate with the classic Lakers teams.

 

It is tough watching a great team grow old...admittedly, the Celtics recent run of success is nothing compared to the Kobe era Lakers run, but the other night, it killed me seeing Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen,unable to set a pick, with 19 seconds left, to get off a final, winning shot attempt. It was brutal. I had never seen anything like that from this Celtics team.

 

Kinda sad, for me, it is coming to an end. I still think they might pull a game out tonight (this team has pleasently surprised me more than once over the last 4 seasons), but they aren't going to the conference final...it makes me sort of melancholy. Believe me, I have rooted for mostly disappointing to lousy sports teams my whole life, this team has been a breath of fresh air, for me, personally. It has been fun, taking it for granted every year, that they are one of the 5 best teams in the league. I can only imagine what it would feel like to be a Lakers die-hard right now.

 

Kobe is a warrior, no doubt. Great player. Trade you Shaq for him?

Edited May 11, 2011 by Buftex

[John from Riverside]

Ha....its funny to hear anybody talk about trading Shaq away from their team.....I guess they ALL get old.

 

I dont like the way Pao shut down in these playoffs....I think it would be a really gutsy call by Mich Kupchak to trade him while his stock is high....and I think it would be the right call

 

WHOEVER the lakers bring in needs to be a guy that can stand up and be the number 1 when Kobe cant get it done some nights.....I just love Chris Paul's ability to get the ball inside and make the right decisions.

 

Derek Fisher has been toast for the last two years......his defense is non existant and now he cant hit a 3 point shot either.

 

Just give me either Dwight Howard (and a lot of shooters) or Chris Paul (and a veteran big that doesn't have sand pouring out his leg)

 

Good luck tonight....I dont like the celtics but I hate the heat worse

[Buftex]

Tip of the hat to the Miami Heat. I hope that Chicago or Atlanta take them down...

 

Good effort by the Celtics, but they are just not that team anymore. Trading Perkins was a wise move for the future, but it didn't help the Celtics this year...oh well...the sun will come out tomorrow...I guess.

 

So long Doc Rivers, thanks for everything. Thanks for restoring the Celtics...it may take a few years to get back, but I don't think they will fall off like they did for most of the 90's and early 2000's. I think Ainge knows what he is doing. I think he might have known, with or without Perkins, this team wasn't going to win a championship. They may have kept the Bird era Celtics together a little longer than they should have, hoping they could eek out another title. Who could blame them? I just think Ainge is determined not to make the same mistake again. I hope that is what he is...if Doc leaves, as is expected, maybe bring in McHale. Not a good GM, but a pretty good coach. Going to be a long off-season, particularly if there are no football distractions.... let's go, anyone but Miami!

 

 

EDIT: Just watching Docs post game PC, he said he is " heavily leaning" toward coming back!! "I'm a Celtic, and I love my guys...I want to win again, here!"

Edited May 12, 2011 by Buftex

[Buftex]

I have consistently said that this is the year that an "unusual" team will win and/or a team with a heartwarming/compelling story would win. That does not mean Chicago is the only candidate to be the Eastern finalist, just that they are the only Eastern team that could win in the Finals if they make it. If another Eastern team has been selected to lose in the Finals it could possibly be Miami to set up the story for next year, but I'm not sure Stern will go that route.

 

As you well know, my "conspiracy theory" has held true since February 2009 when I gave the Finals winners for 09, 10, 11 and 12. At some point even you have to realize that my "theory" is much like the "theory" of gravity.

 

I had three top candidates based on the criteria I spelled out in 2009. All three are past round 1 alive. Would a serious basketball handicapper have had Dallas as one of his top three teams with a chance at winning it all? Watch and learn as one of those three or Chicago will win it. Chicago's best chance is a Jordan or Obama tie in with both seeming less plausible than the Jackson retirement/young superstars in new market/Cuban finally gets his ring scenarios. At least to me it does.

 

 

Okay, crayonz, Dallas and Miami advance, Chicago and OKC looking to move on...possibly Atlanta or Memphis, you are golden...but I just can't see any of them beating Miami, at this point...the Heat have really put it all together.

[John from Riverside]

One thing is for sure....the older veteran teams ended up getting bounced early this playoffs....lakers, celtics, spurs....

 

That actually should tell the teams something.

 

Personally I hope the lakers make the following moves next year

 

With Phil Jackson retired....DUMP the triangle offense. The NBA's allowing the use of double teams and zones have turned it into the no huddle offense.....a relic of the past.

 

Improve team speed.....it is absolutely maddening that in his exit interview Phil said "the lakers need more speed" uh Phil...you sat Tre Johnson on the bench the entire playoffs while you watched Derek Fisher get burned time and time again on defense, not be able to complete a layup, and not be able to break the opposing defense down with lack of a mid range floater/jumper. Tre Johnson proved he could give you that. I know Tre is an unknown but I REALLY hope they bring him back. Loved his hustle

 

Our twin towers is going to get broken up.....you have to trade a piece to get a quality piece we cant just give them trade exemptions if we are going to get someone like Dwight Howard and a quality point guard.

 

We need 3 point shooters....guys that will actually make a shot when they pack paint like they did this playoffs.....

 

We still got a future hall of famer playing on the team....lets retool before he is so old that he cant get another ring.

[Like A Mofo]

The Lebron haters are very very quiet....like ostriches putting their head in the sand, just waiting for ANY team to help them so they can strike..

 

The silence is golden.

 

GO HEAT!!!

[Buftex]

The Lebron haters are very very quiet....like ostriches putting their head in the sand, just waiting for ANY team to help them so they can strike..

 

The silence is golden.

 

GO HEAT!!!

 

 

The Heat have a good chance, even a great chance of winning it all, for a few years to come...I will still hate them!

[John from Riverside]

The Lebron haters are very very quiet....like ostriches putting their head in the sand, just waiting for ANY team to help them so they can strike..

 

The silence is golden.

 

GO HEAT!!!

 

Are we talking about the same Lebron that had to go to Dwayne Wade's team in hopes of winning a title? Are we talking about that King James?

 

 

King James is merely a underling on Dwayne Wades team. A hired gun now.

 

The Heat have a good chance, even a great chance of winning it all, for a few years to come...I will still hate them!

 

I predict that if they dont win it this year.....this group wont win it.

 

Too many ego's to manage.

[dayman]

Are we talking about the same Lebron that had to go to Dwayne Wade's team in hopes of winning a title? Are we talking about that King James?

 

 

King James is merely a underling on Dwayne Wades team. A hired gun now.

 

 

 

I predict that if they dont win it this year.....this group wont win it.

 

Too many ego's to manage.

 

Except it's one collective ego, they are friends, and they all just want to show together they are the best. It's not Wade's team anymore, it's Wade and LeBron's team. All this BS the media drums up parroted by haters. Sounds ridiculous.

[Buftex]

Are we talking about the same Lebron that had to go to Dwayne Wade's team in hopes of winning a title? Are we talking about that King James?

 

 

King James is merely a underling on Dwayne Wades team. A hired gun now.

 

 

 

I predict that if they dont win it this year.....this group wont win it.

 

Too many ego's to manage.

 

 

I dunno John...they look pretty damn good, and they are young...as much as I loathe LeBron, he did come up pretty huge in this series against the Celtics. I realize, the Celtics were a shell of themselves, with age and injury, but the last two games, James came up huge, in the clutch...something he hadn't really done in the past...you realize, last night, game tied, LeBron went on a 10-0 run against the Celtics, and the Heat won by 10? The last two games, every time the Celtics would make a move, LeBron came up with a huge, momentum busting play?

 

The Heat are feeling it. I am buying the Heat hype, but I still hate them! And the thing is, Wade and James still have another 5-7 years each, before they too, start to slow down (maybe longer for James), barring serious injury. I think Doc Rivers nailed it last night, the media, in a strange way, assisted the Heat, by jumping all over them when they mis-stepped, or struggled. Negativity can serve as a great motivating factor for guys. The Heats' talent finally caught up with their egos.

 

The only chink I can see in the Heats armor, right now, is possibly, Bosh. I don't think he is made of the same stuff as James and Wade. A fine player, mind you (I would take him in a heartbeat), but his focus seems a little off at times...

[dayman]

All I know is check page one and see I called the Heat beating Boston easily and everyone realizing at that point they were the real deal! (to pump my own prediction)...also...I will probably have called the final 4 as well 100% correct.

[John from Riverside]

The heat of today DONT beat the Celtics team of 2 years ago.....the only reason why they won it this year is because the celtics (like my team the lakers got old)

 

And here is my theory on why if they dont win it this year they wont win it......Lebron James (and no....this is Dwayne Wade's team.....Wade didn't have to leave and go somewhere else in hopes of winning a championship......Wade is the heat franchise. Just like it wasn't Shaqs team when he and Wade won it years ago) but onto my theory

 

Let me take you back to the Olympics that Labron and Kobe played in. They were over in Japan I believe at the time (by the way....Labron chocked his @ss off in that final game if it were not for Kobe they lose the gold that year)

 

But anyway.....Labron is an alpha dog....and when he found out that the majority of Japan thought Kobe was the best player he got PO'd.

 

Labron is fortunate that Wade is team orientated enough to allow Labron's ego to flourish with the heat......he made room for it becase Dwayne (who I respect) wants to win a title.....HE is the better player and teamate.

 

Just watch....regardless of what happens this year (especially if they win the title) you are going to see a LOT of backbiting next year when things go south and they do go south after you have won that first title. Players get complacent....less hungry....it becomes more about them then about the team.

 

The lakers are actually experiencing this right now (to go along with their age)

[spartacus]

The heat of today DONT beat the Celtics team of 2 years ago.....the only reason why they won it this year is because the celtics (like my team the lakers got old)

 

And here is my theory on why if they dont win it this year they wont win it......Lebron James (and no....this is Dwayne Wade's team.....Wade didn't have to leave and go somewhere else in hopes of winning a championship......Wade is the heat franchise. Just like it wasn't Shaqs team when he and Wade won it years ago) but onto my theory

 

Let me take you back to the Olympics that Labron and Kobe played in. They were over in Japan I believe at the time (by the way....Labron chocked his @ss off in that final game if it were not for Kobe they lose the gold that year)

 

But anyway.....Labron is an alpha dog....and when he found out that the majority of Japan thought Kobe was the best player he got PO'd.

 

Labron is fortunate that Wade is team orientated enough to allow Labron's ego to flourish with the heat......he made room for it becase Dwayne (who I respect) wants to win a title.....HE is the better player and teamate.

 

Just watch....regardless of what happens this year (especially if they win the title) you are going to see a LOT of backbiting next year when things go south and they do go south after you have won that first title. Players get complacent....less hungry....it becomes more about them then about the team.

 

The lakers are actually experiencing this right now (to go along with their age)

 

pretty bitter guy

 

must be from California

 

hate to see your reaction when Pat Riley brings in Chris Paul or Dwight Howard next year

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dayman]

It's both of their teams and when Shaq won w/ Kobe and Wade it was a dual team too. Period. This isn't "Wade's team." That's stupid. It's the Heat. And the Heat's main stars are LeBron and Wade, equally. If you want to say the team belongs to the main thrust of it, that's fine...but that still means they share the title to the team. It matters not who came where from where. These guys are freaking great personal friends btw...that's why LeBron came to Miami anyway. Nothing boils my blood more than that argument. Yeah, it was Wade's team, until LeBron came. Now it's both of theirs. Like I said they're good friends and LeBron had talked with Wade before coming and even planned to have the contract expire with him ahead of time after they played together on the Olympics. If you don't think Wade wanted LeBron to come, every bit as bad as LeBron wanted to come (actually more), after the last few playoffs he's had, you are an idiot.

Edited May 13, 2011 by dayman

[Buftex]

ECF gets off to a great start...Bulls are played tremendous defense in the second half of that game...almost reminded me of my guys, from just a few years ago...hats off to Tom Thibodeau and the Bulls...

 

Would love to see Rose and Durant face off in the finals...

[John from Riverside]

It's both of their teams and when Shaq won w/ Kobe and Wade it was a dual team too. Period. This isn't "Wade's team." That's stupid. It's the Heat. And the Heat's main stars are LeBron and Wade, equally. If you want to say the team belongs to the main thrust of it, that's fine...but that still means they share the title to the team. It matters not who came where from where. These guys are freaking great personal friends btw...that's why LeBron came to Miami anyway. Nothing boils my blood more than that argument. Yeah, it was Wade's team, until LeBron came. Now it's both of theirs. Like I said they're good friends and LeBron had talked with Wade before coming and even planned to have the contract expire with him ahead of time after they played together on the Olympics. If you don't think Wade wanted LeBron to come, every bit as bad as LeBron wanted to come (actually more), after the last few playoffs he's had, you are an idiot.

 

 

Please show me anywhere in my posts where it says that Wade didn't want Labron to come to the team.....just anywhere will do.

 

Of course Wade would want another superstar to come to the team....he has already won a title when he allowed Shaq to come in and deferred to him when Miami won the title that year.....but it was STILL Wades team.....Shaq was just a rental.

 

pretty bitter guy

 

must be from California

 

hate to see your reaction when Pat Riley brings in Chris Paul or Dwight Howard next year

 

Yup....from California....its hard to be bitter when your team has won the last two championships....and yes...I will cry a river if Pat Riley gets either of those guys on the team althought not sure how that would be even possible.

 

Much more likely that one of those players could end up a laker next year my team is old time for change.

[ieatcrayonz]

 

Strong candidates in no particular order. I have bolded the strongest:

 

New York Knicks - Listed in this category just because they are the only real good story line from the East

OK City - Small market, budding stars, young team makes a run all the way and cements the new market

Dallas - Cuban's recent statements and stint on Stern influenced ABC makes me think something is in the works

Denver - Crazy I know but the George Karl story and lack of Melo would be heartwarming

Lakers - Phil Jackson's last year? Barf. Still a good story line but does not open things up for an unusual team.

 

 

Moderate candidates:

 

Chicago - Tie in to Jordan years? I'm not sure I see the story line but the east is short on them and Chicago coming back would be interesting. Maybe Stern is cuddling up to Obama.

 

Portland - Tie in to Bill Walton?

 

 

Almost no chance but not zero:

 

New Orleans - If the Saints hadn't already won the Super Bowl Stern might do this.

 

Indiana- Just wishful thinking on my part really but an 8 seed would make a story.

 

 

No chance at all:

 

San Antonio, Memphis, Orlando, Atlanta, Boston, Miami, Philly. Sorry Buftex; it just isn't there.

 

 

 

Updated through round 2.

 

I shouldn't do this because although I have been good at seeing the script from a high level, I have sometimes tried to do too much. Last year I tried to predict individual games in the Finals instead of being satisfied that it would go to 7.

 

Anyway, my prediction for next year, Miami, will have some holes to fill to get the title. The three stars need some role players. I'm sure there are two vets out there that can be signed and help off the bench. I think that will happen. Still, there is one thing missing....that one great story that puts them over the top.....you know what would be a great story? A rookie coming in and contributing and being wildly popular. Can anyone think of a potential exciting rookie that can "miraculously fall" to Miami in the draft? I think I can but I don't want to go out on a Limmer...

[Buftex]

Updated through round 2.

 

I shouldn't do this because although I have been good at seeing the script from a high level, I have sometimes tried to do too much. Last year I tried to predict individual games in the Finals instead of being satisfied that it would go to 7.

 

Anyway, my prediction for next year, Miami, will have some holes to fill to get the title. The three stars need some role players. I'm sure there are two vets out there that can be signed and help off the bench. I think that will happen. Still, there is one thing missing....that one great story that puts them over the top.....you know what would be a great story? A rookie coming in and contributing and being wildly popular. Can anyone think of a potential exciting rookie that can "miraculously fall" to Miami in the draft? I think I can but I don't want to go out on a Limmer...

 

 

Youre on a roll...seriously, you should put some money on this stuff at the begining of the season.

 

Let me ask you, assuming this is all scripted, as you suggest...how would Stern and his minions ensure that an "exciting rookie" fell to Miami. I realize that isn't one of your "sure things" in the scenario for next year, but you put it out there. How could Stern ensure that a rookie panned out? In the NBA, only roughly a third of the first round draft picks ever even end up being functional NBA players, and the odds drop considerably after the first round.